Genesis chapter one.

Spindle4

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 3, 2021
Messages
178
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The Beginning

(John 1:1-5)



1In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. 2And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.


The First Day: Light

3And God said: Be light made. And light was made. 4And God saw the light that it was good; and he divided the light from the darkness. 5And he called the light Day, and the darkness Night; and there was evening and morning one day.


The Second Day: Firmament

6And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so. 8And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.


The Third Day: Dry Ground

9God also said: Let the waters that are under the heaven, be gathered together into one place: and let the dry land appear. And it was so done. 10And God called the dry land, Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. 11And he said: Let the earth bring forth the green herb, and such as may seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after its kind, which may have seed in itself upon the earth. And it was so done. 12And the earth brought forth the green herb, and such as yieldeth seed according to its kind, and the tree that beareth fruit having seed each one according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13And the evening and the morning were the third day.


The Fourth Day: Sun, Moon, Stars

14And God said: Let there be lights made in the firmament of heaven, to divide the day and the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years: 15To shine in the firmament of heaven, and to give light upon the earth. And it was so done. 16And God made two great lights: a greater light to rule the day; and a lesser light to rule the night: and the stars. 17And he set them in the firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth. 18And to rule the day and the night, and to divide the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19And the evening and morning were the fourth day.


The Fifth Day: Fish and Birds

20God also said: Let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the firmament of heaven. 21And God created the great whales, and every living and moving creature, which the waters brought forth, according to their kinds, and every winged fowl according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22And he blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the waters of the sea: and let the birds be multiplied upon the earth. 23And the evening and morning were the fifth day.


The Sixth Day: Creatures on Land

24And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done. 25And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, and cattle, and every thing that creepeth on the earth after its kind. And God saw that it was good.


26And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth. 27And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them. 28And God blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and all living creatures that move upon the earth. 29And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat: 30And to all the beasts of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to all that move upon the earth, and wherein there is life, that they may have to feed upon. And it was so done. 31And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good. And the evening and morning were the sixth day.

I was giving this passage some thought a while ago. Considering what the ordering of the creation may imply for humanity's care over creation in this age, before the second advent of Christ the Lord. Is it implied in the passage, indirectly, of course, that Humanity's first concerns ought to be ordered something like this:
  • Care one for another
  • Care for mammals and other animals dwelling on land
  • Care for small creatures that creep on the land
  • Care for the creatures that fly in the air, birds and insect and all that is airborne
  • Care for sea creatures that swim and those that occupy the bottom of the seas

And here we find the Sun and the Moon and the stars which are at this time in human history somewhat beyond our ability to hurt or to help
followed by
  • care for plants of every kind, trees first grasses and others also
  • care for the earth itself, its soils and waters both fresh and salt
  • care for the firmament of heaven with its waters above and below which seems to be a reference to the airs that make the atmosphere and waters in the air and in the lakes and seas

and then these last two which also seem beyond our ability at this time in human history.
care for the light which God created second
care for the darkness which God created first

I had not given much thought to this before. To the creation of darkness first and chaotic earth. Followed by the creation of light.

The shaping of the earth and populating it with living things also have an interesting order.

Stewardship of the earth and current concerns over the environment may have an implied guide in the story of creation given in Genesis chapter one.
The Universe manifests God's glory, and our sojourn in it makes history.
 

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Gap theory has been thoroughly discredited:






Oh gee...thoroughly discredited. Sorry, your links may satisfy you, but not me. I have studied it and as I said, I believe it is Scriptural.

But, go ahead and believe all your links.

But ask your links this. How wide is the gap in (Is. 61:2)? "To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God...."

Lest you can't see a gap there, compare (Luke 4:19-20), where Jesus is quoting this verse. "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book...."

Well, last count is that the gap there in (Is. 61:2) is at least 2022 years wide, and growing. Separated not by even a period, but a comma.

Lees
 

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
@Fritz Kobus

Consider another gap also. Moses is going over Israel's history.

(Deut. 10:5-6) "And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me. And the children of Israel took their journey from Beeroth of the children of Jaakan to Mosera: there Aaron died, and there he was buried...."

Moses came down from the Mount and placed the tables in the ark probably no more than a year after the Exodus.

The simple reading of (Deut. 10:5-6) indicates that after he did that he and Israel journeyed to Mosera where Aaron died.

And it is true, that Aaron died after Moses came down from the Mount. But there is a 40 year time gap that is not accounted for between (Deut. 10:5) and (Deut. 10:6).

How do we know? Other Scripture. (Num. 33:38) "And Aaron the priest went up into mount Hor at the commandment of the LORD, and died there, in the fortieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt...."

You will find this common throughout Scripture. Common with God. He is not interested in giving an exact record of all things, either historically or chronologically. He says things for a purpose, and what He says is true.

So, my point is this. (Gen. 1:1) is true. And, when is 'the beginning'? It is the origin of the Universe. But time wise we don't know.

The next verse is true, and it follows in time after (Gen. 1:1) "And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep....." (Gen. 1:2) But, as I have showed, that doesn't necessarily mean this condition of the earth was immediately following (1:1).

And the desciption given of the earth in (Gen. 1:2) is contrary to immediate creation by God. God never creates formless and void and in darkness.

Lees
 

Fritz Kobus

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Messages
961
Location
Too Close to Detroit MI
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
@Fritz Kobus
God never creates formless and void and in darkness.

Can you cite where this is stated in the Bible?

However, that is not what Genesis 1:2 says.

"2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

So it does not say He created in darkness. Rather, it says that darkness was on the face of the deep.
 

Fritz Kobus

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Messages
961
Location
Too Close to Detroit MI
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Oh gee...thoroughly discredited. Sorry, your links may satisfy you, but not me. I have studied it and as I said, I believe it is Scriptural.

But, go ahead and believe all your links.

But ask your links this. How wide is the gap in (Is. 61:2)? "To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God...."

Lest you can't see a gap there, compare (Luke 4:19-20), where Jesus is quoting this verse. "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book...."

Well, last count is that the gap there in (Is. 61:2) is at least 2022 years wide, and growing. Separated not by even a period, but a comma.

Lees
Of course you realize that a prophecy would certainly have a gap between it's initial proclamation and its fulfillment. And that the punctuation is something added by the translators.

Also, gaps don't prove gaps. The supposed gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 is totally contrary to the Bible, especially if you try to insert any form of life in that gap that then is killed off. God's creation was very good:

Genesis 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

That "very good" is not tainted by a failed earlier creation.
 
Last edited:

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
.
Gen 1:6-8a . . And God said: Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters,
and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and
divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were
above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven.

We can easily guess what is meant by water that's below the sky. But is there really
water that's above it? Yes, and it's a lot! According to an article in the Sept 2013
issue of National Geographic magazine, Earth's atmosphere holds roughly 3,095
cubic miles of water in the form of vapor. That may seem like a preposterous
number of cubic miles of water; but not really when it's considered that Lake
Superior's volume alone is estimated at nearly 3,000.

Our home planet is really big; a whole lot bigger than sometimes realized. It's
surface area, in square miles, is 196,940,000. To give an idea of just how many
square miles that is: if somebody were to wrap a belt around the equator made of
one-mile squares; it would only take 24,902 squares to complete the distance;
which is a mere .012644% of the surface area.

Some of the more familiar global warming gases are carbon dioxide, fluorocarbons,
methane, and ozone. But as popular as those gases are with the media, they're bit
players in comparison to the role that ordinary water vapor plays in global
warming. By some estimates; atmospheric water vapor accounts for more than
90% of global warming; which is not a bad thing because without atmospheric
water vapor, the earth would be so cold that the only life that could exist here
would be extremophiles.

How much water is below the firmament? Well; according to the same National
Geographic article; the amount contained in swamp water, lakes and rivers, ground
water, and oceans, seas, and bays adds up to something like 326.6 million cubic
miles; and that's not counting the 5.85 million cubic miles tied up in living
organisms, soil moisture, ground ice and permafrost, ice sheets, glaciers, and
permanent snow.

To put that in perspective: a tower 326.6 million miles high would exceed the Sun's
distance better than 3½ times. It would've exceeded the distance between Mars
and Earth on July 27, 2018 by 5 times.


Gen 1:8b . . And the evening and the morning were the second day.

At this point, there was no sun to cause physical evenings and mornings; so we can
safely assume that the terms are merely index flags indicating the completion of
one of creation's six-step processes and the beginning of another.


Gen 1:9 . . And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together
unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

At this point, the Earth's surface likely resembled the continuity of a billiard ball so
it would remain entirely flooded were it not reshaped.

"He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved. You covered
it with the deep as with a garment; the waters stood above the mountains. At your
rebuke they fled; at the sound of your thunder they took to flight. The mountains
rose, the valleys sank down to the place that you appointed for them. You set a
boundary that they may not pass, so that they might not again cover the earth."
(Ps 104:5-9)

That passage is stunning; and clearly way ahead of its time. Mountains rising, and
valleys sinking speaks of magma pressure and tectonic plate subduction-- on-going
titanic forces that keep the Earth's surface in a perpetual state of alteration.

Now, it's right about here that young-earth theorists have a problem because it's
obvious from physical evidence that much of the Earth's higher elevations were
inundated for a very long time before they were pushed up to where they are now.

Take for example Mount Everest. Today its tippy top is something like 29,029 feet
above sea level. The discovery of fossilized sea lilies near its summit proves that
the Himalayan land mass has not always been mountainous; but at one time was
the floor of an ancient sea bed. This is confirmed by the "yellow band" below
Everest's summit consisting of limestone: a type of rock made from calcite
sediments containing the skeletal remains of countless trillions of organisms who
lived, not on dry land, rather, underwater in an ocean.
_
 

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
.
Gen 1:10 . . And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the
waters He called Seas: and God saw that it was good.

"good" meaning not that the dry ground and seas are morally acceptable, but
rather, perfectly suitable for the purposes that God had in mind for them.


NOTE: There are Hebrew words in the Bible for marshes, rivers, and streams; but
I've yet to encounter one for lakes and ponds. In other words "seas" suffices not
only for oceans; but also for smaller accumulations. (A rather curious sea is located
at 1Kings 7:23-26)


Gen 1:11a . . Then God said: Let the land produce vegetation

The land at this point was likely solid rock; which would require some changes to its
chemistry if it was to sustain a large variety of plant life.

Soil formation is a very slow process, sometimes taking as long as a millennium to
make just one inch; which at first would consist of little more than powdered rock.
In order for soil to become really productive, it needs organic material mixed with
it. So it's my guess that the very first vegetation that God created were species that
thrive on stone, and little by little their remains would amend the powder to
increase its fertility.

Some of the lyrics of one of AC/DC's songs says: "It's a long way to the top if you
wanna rock 'n roll". Well, it was an even longer ways to the soil from which human
life was eventually brought into viable existence.

The Hebrew word for "produce" appears in only two places in the entire Old
Testament; here and Joel 2:22. It basically means to sprout. Here and in Joel, it
refers to species of plants where none of their kind previously existed.

The variety of Earth's vegetation is boggling. It's estimated between 250,000 to
315,000 species-- that's the plants we know of but doesn't include the ones that
may have existed in the past prior to catastrophic weather conditions and extinction
events.


Gen 1:11b-12 . . seed-bearing plants, fruit trees of every kind on earth that bear
fruit with the seed in it. And it was so. The earth brought forth vegetation: seed
bearing plants of every kind, and trees of every kind bearing fruit with the seed in
it. And God saw that this was good.

According to Gen 2:4-5, the land's vegetation was dormant in the beginning; it
didn't actually flourish until the atmosphere began producing moisture.


NOTE: It's believed by science that there was an era in Earth's youth called the
Carboniferous period when it was blanketed by dense jungles and forests. As those
plants and trees died, and were buried beneath layers of sediment; their unique
chemical structure caused them to be "cooked" into solid coal; and there is really a
lot of it.

Why isn't the Earth currently blanketed by dense jungles and forests? Well; the
earth's conditions today cannot produce enough humidity, nor enough rain, nor
enough global warming to sustain the kinds of heavy vegetation that once existed
in the Carboniferous era. In other words: the Earth, over time, has managed to
give itself a remarkable make-over; and at least one element of its make-over are
the mountains.

The ranges now in existence; e.g. the Andes, the Himalayas, the Rockies, the Urals,
the Appalachians, the Cascades, the Brooks Range, the Alps, etc; and the various
minor inland and coastal ranges weren't always in place where they are now. Those
were shoved up over time by the forces of tectonic subduction, volcanism, and
magma pressure. Even Yosemite's massive granite monoliths haven't always been
there. They were formed deep underground and then somehow pushed up to where
they are now.

Anyway, point being; those ranges have a very great deal to do with the Earth's
current weather systems.


Gen 1:13 . . And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.
_
 

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Can you cite where this is stated in the Bible?

However, that is not what Genesis 1:2 says.

"2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

So it does not say He created in darkness. Rather, it says that darkness was on the face of the deep.

Sure can. Remember, God is light. There is no darkness unless He decrees it, removes it. So when God began His resotoration of the earth, what is the first thing He did? He turned on the light. (Gen. 1:3) His light. Not the Sun.

Well, you're exactly right. (Gen. 1:2) doesn't say that. Which is exactly my point. The condition of the earth, and the earth is what is addressed in (1:2), is formless and void and darkness upon the face of the deep.

Note what (Isaiah) said. (Is. 45:18) "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited:...." My, my. That is contradictory with (Gen. 1:2)

The word 'vain' here in (Is. 45:18) is the exact same word as 'without form' in (Gen. 1:2) where it says 'the earth was without form'. Thus (Isaiah) is saying, the condition of the earth in (Gen. 1:2) is not the condition in which God created it.

I know it doesn't say God created in darkness. Because He doesn't create in darkness. And He doesn't create through 'formless and void' methods either. That is my point. And the point of (Isaiah).

When God began the 6 day restoration of the earth, how did He do it. Light be and light was. When God created man, was he in a childish and confused state. No. A perfect adult man in a perfect state.

Lees
 

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Of course you realize that a prophecy would certainly have a gap between it's initial proclamation and its fulfillment. And that the punctuation is something added by the translators.

Also, gaps don't prove gaps. The supposed gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 is totally contrary to the Bible, especially if you try to insert any form of life in that gap that then is killed off. God's creation was very good:

Genesis 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

That "very good" is not tainted by a failed earlier creation.

Of course you realize that you/we are not talking about the gap between the prophecy and it's fulfillment. We are talking about the prophecy as written reads as one sentence with no diffenece in time indicated. But, we know there is a difference in time, a gap, because of other Scripture.

Actually, gaps do prove gaps. It proves, as I already said, that gaps of time are common with God in Scripture. As I showed. Yet unless other Scripture is given, you would not know there was a gap. And I have showed you that gaps of time are not contrary to God in the Bible. In other words, saying there is a Gap between (Gen. 1:1) and (1:2), should not be all that suprising. All that is left is to find out what Scripture says about it.

All I have said is that there is a gap between (Gen. 1:1) and (1:2). You now bring up 'any form of life in that gap'. That is for later. A Gap has to be proven, or at least proof given first.

The 'very good' pertains to the 6 day restoration. Not the formless and void and dark condition found in (Gen. 1:2). There was never any failed earlier creation concerning the creative acts. The condition of earth in (Gen. 1:2) was the result of something happening that caused that condition. No failure on God's creative acts.

Lees
 

Fritz Kobus

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Messages
961
Location
Too Close to Detroit MI
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Note what (Isaiah) said. (Is. 45:18) "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited:...." My, my. That is contradictory with (Gen. 1:2)
No contradiction. Genesis 1:1 is simply stating that God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 2:1 tells us that this creative process was finished. What is between those two verses is a summary of the creation process.
 

Fritz Kobus

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Messages
961
Location
Too Close to Detroit MI
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Oh gee...thoroughly discredited. Sorry, your links may satisfy you, but not me. I have studied it and as I said, I believe it is Scriptural.

But, go ahead and believe all your links.

But ask your links this. How wide is the gap in (Is. 61:2)? "To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God...."

Lest you can't see a gap there, compare (Luke 4:19-20), where Jesus is quoting this verse. "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book...."

Well, last count is that the gap there in (Is. 61:2) is at least 2022 years wide, and growing. Separated not by even a period, but a comma.

Lees
So you are saying that because Jesus did not quote the second part of the verse, there is a gap? How so. It simply was not part of what Jesus was conveying at that moment.
 

Fritz Kobus

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Messages
961
Location
Too Close to Detroit MI
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The condition of earth in (Gen. 1:2) was the result of something happening that caused that condition.
Yeah, and what caused that condition is that the first step was where God created a big ball of water and form there He shaped it into what he wanted. An artist takes a lump of clay and forms it into something. How did the lump of clay get there? The artist formed the lump of clay as the base from which to work out his desired end product.
 

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
No contradiction. Genesis 1:1 is simply stating that God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 2:1 tells us that this creative process was finished. What is between those two verses is a summary of the creation process.

Yes, contradiction. (Is. 45:18) is clear that God did not create the earth formless and void and in darkness.

The only 'summary' verse is (Gen. 1:1). "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

The 6 day restoration is very explicit.

Lees
 

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
So you are saying that because Jesus did not quote the second part of the verse, there is a gap? How so. It simply was not part of what Jesus was conveying at that moment.

Of course I am saying that because there is a gap. What do you mean how so? It is plain as day.

I was very clear in what I said. The gap exists in (Is. 61:2). It reads as Messiah will come preaching, "To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God." It reads with no time difference.

But Jesus clarified there is a time difference, a gap, between the two. 2022 years so far.

I have noticed you have not commented on the gap between (Deut. 10:5) and (10:6). Why not?

Lees
 

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Yeah, and what caused that condition is that the first step was where God created a big ball of water and form there He shaped it into what he wanted. An artist takes a lump of clay and forms it into something. How did the lump of clay get there? The artist formed the lump of clay as the base from which to work out his desired end product.

Yet Scripture says otherwise.

Look at (Jer. 4:23). "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."

The prophet here describes the exact same condition of the earth as found in (Gen. 1:2).

With such exact imagery one must ask, what is the prophet speaking to?

Jeremiah is speaking to a rebellious house of Judah just prior to the Babylonian destruction which is coming. Hear him. (Jer. 4:20) "Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment. "

(Jer. 4:22) "For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil but to do good they have no knowledege"

Then comes our verse in (Jer. 4:23). "I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form, and void, and the heavens, and they had no light."

Jeremiah is describing the earth in (Gen. 1:2) He is clear that it is a picture of judgement from God.

Read on. (Jer. 4:25-26) "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heaven were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger."

But then comes a promise of hope for the earth. (Jer. 4:27) "For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end."

Just as the imagery of destruction and judgement upon the earth is used to reflect the rebellious house of Judah, so too is the promise of God, 'yet will I not make a full end'.

In other words, if (Gen. 1:2) is not the result of judgement and destruction from God, and the 6 days are not a restoration from that destruction, then there is no hope or comfort for Judah in these words.

But, the prophet is clear that it is judgement and restoration. Which means something occurred between (Gen. 1:1) and (1:2) that cast the earth into that condition. A Gap of time of which we don't know how long.

This agrees perfectly with what (Isaiah) said also in (45:18) concerning the condition of the earth in (Gen. 1:2) A promise is given to Israel that God will restore her from the judgement to come. (Is. 45:17) "But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end." If the condition of the earth in (Gen. 1:2) is not one of judgement and the 6 days are not a restoration of the earth, then there is no comfort for Israel in these words.

Lees
 
Last edited:

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
.
Continued from No.27


Gen 1:14a . . God said: Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky

On the fourth day, God spent time up in celestial regions. It might seem odd that
He began work on the surface of the Earth, and then before finishing, stopped short
and moved off into space. Why not finish building down here on the planet first?

Well; at this point in the process of creation, planet Earth was very dark and
freezing cold. For example: the dark side of the Moon gets down to -279º F
(-172.8° C) so it was time to turn man's home into a greenhouse if anything
meaningful was to live down here.

A major player in the Earth's water cycle is evaporation, which is driven by the Sun.
By means of evaporation, the earth's atmosphere gets enough water vapor to form
the clouds that produce precipitation.

The Sun also plays a role in temperature variations that make conditions like
humidity and fog possible. Temperature variations also play a role in the process of
erosion; which assists in soil formation.

Many varieties of vegetation depend upon the annual cycle of the four seasons of
Spring, Summer, Autumn, and Winter; seasons which would not be possible
without the Sun.

Oxygen is an essential gas for sustaining life on Earth and a very large percentage
of it is produced by photosynthesis which is a chemical process that works best in
sunlight. No doubt the original atmosphere contained oxygen enough, but would
eventually be absorbed by oxidation and other kinds of chemical activity. Plant life
plays a major role in both filtration and replenishment; hence the need to get a Sun
shining as soon as possible.

The atmosphere contains on average 19.5 to 23.5 percent oxygen; even with all
the fossil fuel burned around the world, along with the destruction of savannas,
prairies, woodlands, wetlands, and rain forests, coupled with volcanic activity; the
percentage remain fairly stable.

Today's science is aware that the Moon doesn't generate its own light; but prior to
that discovery, people no doubt regarded the Moon as a second Sun; especially
seeing as how from the perspective of Earth, the Sun and the Moon appear to be
the same size in diameter, and both appear to circle the Earth.


Gen 1:14b . . to distinguish Day from Night;

On the first day of the creative process; God defined Day as a condition of light;
and defined Night as a condition of darkness. Here, it's further defined that Day--
as pertains to life on Earth --is distinctly separate from Night rather than a 24-hour
amalgam of light and dark.

The properties of Day and Night come out so early in the Bible that they easily
escape the memories of Bible students as they slip into the reflexive habit of always
thinking of Days as periods of one Earth rotation of 24 hours. That's okay for
calendars but can lead to gross misunderstandings when interpreting biblical
schedules, predictions, and/or chronologies, e.g. Matt 12:40.
_
 

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
.
Continued from No.36


Gen 1:14c . . they shall serve as signs for the set times-- the days and the years;

The word for "signs" is from 'owth (oth) and means a signal; viz: indicators. For
example: the mark that God put on Cain was an 'owth. (Gen 4:15)

The Sun's movement across the sky is very useful for keeping time. It probably didn't
take long for early men to realize they could divide a day into convenient elements by
utilizing shadow.

"seasons" is translated from either mowed' (mo-ade') or moed` (mo-ade'). Those words
are translated "congregation" numerous times in the Old Testament relative to special
dates on the calendar.

While the Sun is useful for keeping track of solar increments, the Moon is useful for
marking off lunar increments. For example: were you to tell somebody your intention to
visit them in five Moons, they would have a pretty good idea when to get ready for your
arrival; so long as you both used a common definition of "moon". To some, a moon is
New Moon, while for others a moon indicates Full Moon.

If the Sun and the Moon were the hands of a clock; the Sun would be the minute hand
and the Moon would be the hour hand; so to speak.

* Years in the Old Testament are sometimes based upon a 30-day month; and they're
not always referenced by the Sun's position in space relative to the stars.
_
 

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
.
Gen 1:15-18a . . and they shall serve as lights in the expanse of the sky to shine
upon the Earth. And it was so. God made the two great lights, the greater light to
dominate the day and the lesser light to dominate the night, and the stars. And God
set them in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the Earth, to dominate the day
and the night, and to distinguish light from darkness.

Gen 1:3-5 defines day as a condition of light, and defines night as a condition of
darkness. Gen 1:14-18 defines day on Earth as when the Sun is up and night on
Earth is defined as when the Sun is down.

At this point in biblical history, "stars" no doubt indicates all luminous objects in the
heavens seeing as how it would be a very long time before humanity began
categorizing some of the stars as planets.

I think it's important to emphasize that in the beginning God "set" the stars in the
sky just as he set the Sun and the Moon in the sky, i.e. celestial objects didn't
arrange themselves all by themselves sans any intelligent supervision whatsoever;
no, they were placed; and not only were they set in place, but also set in motion--
nothing in the entire cosmos is standing still, though many things appear to be.

According to Gen 1:15, stars illuminated the Earth on the "day" that God made
them.

Well; the only stars whose shine is of any practical use as illumination are those of
the Milky Way; which is estimated 100,000 to 180,000 light years in diameter.
Obviously then; if left entirely up to nature, light from stars nearest our location in
the galaxy would begin dousing the earth with illumination long before those at the
far side.

For example, light from Alpha Centauri takes only about 4½ years to reach Earth
while light from Alpha Orionis (a.k.a. Betelgeuse) takes about 640. There are quite
a few stars whose illumination reaches Earth in less than 50 years. But whether 4½
years, 50 years, 640 years, or 180,000 years; the time involved is insignificant if
we but allow that the days of creation were eras rather than 24-hour events.

But what's the point of putting all those objects out there in space? Well, for one
thing, they're not only brain teasers; but they're actually quite pretty. Celestial
objects decorate the night sky like the ornamentation people put up during
holidays. The night sky would sure be a bore if it was totally black. Decorated with
stars; the night sky is like a beautiful tapestry, or a celestial Sistine Chapel.

"The heavens declare the glory of God, the sky proclaims His handiwork." (Ps 19:2)

Stars makes better sense that way than to try and find some other meaning for
them. The universe is simply a magnificent work of art-- just as intriguing, if not
more so, than the works of Picasso, Rembrandt, Michelangelo, Monet, Vermeer,
and/or da Vinci --testifying to the genius of an engineer-artist without peer.

Sadly, a number of very intelligent people like Carl Sagan and Neil deGrasse Tyson
look to the sky for the wrong reasons. Why not just look to the sky for inspiration
instead of only exploration and discovery? What's so bad about visiting the sky as a
Guggenheim or a Louvre displaying your maker's many-faceted talents?

"For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it
evident to them. Ever since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes of
eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what
He has made." (Rom 1:19-20)


Gen 1:18b-19 . . And God saw that this was good. And there was evening and
there was morning, a fourth day.
_
 

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
.
Gen 1:20a . . And God said: Let the water teem with living creatures,

How can water alone be used to create living things? Well, it can't be any more
difficult than creating the entire cosmos ex nihilo; i.e. from and/or out of nothing.

However, one of the essential elements for the construction of organic life is
carbon. Well; seawater contains that element, along with several others too; and
there's plenty enough seawater that's for sure.


Gen 1:20b-21a . . and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky.
So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing
with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird
according to its kind.

The Hebrew word translated "birds" is 'owph (ofe) which just simply means covered
with wings as opposed to covered with feathers. It's a rather unusual word because
it includes not only creatures with feathers, but according to Lev 11:13-23, 'owph
also pertains to bats and flying insects. The English word "bird" was obviously an
arbitrary translation since owph is ambiguous.

What did those early flyers look like? Well; I suggest that at least some of them
had to be Pterosaurs because on no other day but the fifth did God bring about
critters with wings. Precisely when and/or how God phased out those early skin
winged creatures is one of science's thorniest mysteries. It's reasonable to assume
that whatever exterminated the Pterosaurs should have exterminated everything
else with wings too; but somehow birds, bats, and flying bugs are still with us.

It's important to note that winged creatures were just as distinct a creation as aqua
creatures. So winged creatures didn't evolve from creatures who once lived in the
sea. Winged creatures are a separate genre of life in their own right, and absolutely
did not evolve from some other order of life.

"great whales" is from tanniyn (tan-neen') and/or tanniym (tan-neem') which
mean: a marine or land monster. Tanniyn is sometimes translated "dragon" as in
Isa 27:1

* It wasn't a tanniyn, however, that swallowed Jonah. That creature was either a
dagah (daw-gaw') a dag (dawg) or a da'g (dawg). All three words mean a fish.


NOTE: The reason I quoted the three Hebrew words for "fish" is because the fact is:
translators are not always confident how best to represent a Hebrew word with the
English alphabet. In point of fact, there are ancient Hebrew words that nobody
really knows what they mean so translators are forced to take educated guesses
here and there in order to fill in the text.

"every living creature that moveth" would include not only critters that swim but
also critters that creep, e.g. starfish, lobsters, crayfish, newts, clams, and crabs et
al.

But what about aquatic dinosaurs? Well; according to Discovery's web site "Walking
With Dinosaurs" paleontologists believe there were some amphibious reptiles such
as plesiosaurs and ichthyosaurs, but those creatures didn't have the gills necessary
to be truly aquatic like Nemo and his dad Marlin.


Gen 1:21b . . And God saw that this was good.

In other words: He was satisfied.

The Hebrew word for "good" in this instance is towb (tobe) which is horribly
ambiguous. It's meanings range from morally good, to good looking, to a job well
done, to something that's good to the taste; and to a whole lot of other things in
between; e.g. a good show, good food, as good as it gets, satisfactory, pleasing;
etc, etc.


Gen 1:22a . . God blessed them, saying: Be fruitful and increase,

This is the very first place in the Bible where the Hebrew word for "bless" shows up.
It's somewhat ambiguous, but in this case I think it's pretty safe to assume that it
means to furnish freely or naturally with some power, quality, or attribute; i.e.
provide, endow, and/or empower. In other words: the blessing of fertility was a
providential act; and no doubt included microscopic creatures as well as those
visible to the naked eye.
_
 

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
.
Gen 1:22b . . fill the waters in the seas, and let the winged creatures increase on
the earth.

Winged creatures have the advantage of flight; which, in my estimation, makes
them more fortunate than creatures confined to water. The wingers get a much
better world view from above than those below. Flying broadens one's horizons, so
to speak, and gives us a bigger picture. Amphibious flyers, e.g. cormorants and
grebes, have the best of both environs; they see things from above as well as from
below.

Aqua creatures exist in the most unlikely places. When the crew of the bathyscaphe
Trieste descended into the 35,761 feet Challenger Deep located in the deepest part
of the Mariana Trench in 1960, they didn't really expect to find anything living down
there; but to their surprise, they saw a flat fish similar to sole and flounder.


Gen 1:23 . . And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.

We've come now to the sixth day when all terra life was created; including humans.


Gen 1:24-25 . .Then God said: Let the earth bring forth living creatures after
their kind-- cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind, And
it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle
after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God
saw that it was good.

This grouping of creatures (except for Man) isn't specifically given the blessing of
fertility; but if God would bless aqua creatures and those with wings, why ever
would He not bless the terra species too who are just as important? But since
they've been reproducing all this time, then I'd have to say there is sufficient
circumstantial evidence to support the assumption that they too were empowered
to reproduce.

"creeping things" is translated from the Hebrew word remes (reh'-mes) which,
according to Psalm 104:25, tells of not only creatures that live on land, but also
those that live in water. Remes are apparently creatures that skitter, slither, or hop
rather than bound and/or gallop; which suggests that remes is somewhat
ambiguous and not all that easy to classify; in point of fact, it could even include
amphibious critters.

Terra critters weren't created ex nihilo; rather, from the very land upon which they
live; i.e. God used earthly materials and ingredients already at hand to construct
them. Neat-O. Not only are the various plants and animals indigenous to planet
Earth; but they are part of it too and blend right back in when they die and
decompose.

Beasts of the earth, in this instance, simply refers to wild life as opposed to
domesticated life. Dinosaurs would've been in the wild classification.

Cattle refers to mute beasts (a.k.a. dumb animals) --the herd species from which
came those that can be domesticated for Man's uses. They can pull plows and
wagons, provide tallow for candles and soap, and hide and wool for clothes, meat
and dairy for table, carry loads, and transport people from place to place on their
backs. (Probably one of the better things that Spain did for Native Americans was
make it possible for them to have horses.)

Not all herd animals can be tamed. Zebras, for instance, and male elephants are
not particularly suited to domestication.

It's no accident that some of the animals are so useful to Man. God made them for
the express purpose of serving people. Although they're nephesh, same as Man,
that doesn't make them equals with Man. However, although beasts are below the
rank of the image and likeness of God, people have no right to be cruel to animals.
But Man does have the right, by the creator's fiat, to take advantage of them; and
to induct them into slavery for Man's benefit.

No doubt some of us would be happy if a few of the creeping species had not been
created, e.g. scorpions, centipedes, cockroaches, tarantulas, fleas, ticks, ants; et
al.
_
 
Top Bottom