Did Jesus descend into Hell when he died on the cross?

[NathanH83]

As stated in the Apostle’s creed?

Where is the scripture to back it up?
What did he do when he was there?

 

[NathanH83]

Apostle’s Creed:


I believe in God, the Father almighty,
 creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
 who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
 and born of the virgin Mary.
 He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
 was crucified, died, and was buried;
 he descended to hell.
 The third day he rose again from the dead.
 He ascended to heaven
 and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
 From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
 the holy catholic church,
 the communion of saints,
 the forgiveness of sins,
 the resurrection of the body,
 and the life everlasting. Amen.

Apostles' Creed

www.crcna.org

 

[NathanH83]

 

[Josiah]

http://lutherancatechism.com/doc-lib/scaer_d_he_did_descend_to_hell_in_defense_of_the_apostles.pdf

Here's an excellent article on this.... I know you've said you don't have interest in reading anything beyond the very short (and this is 9 pages long) but if you actually are interested in the question, it is very good.



The usual text here is 1 Peter 3:18-20. But as the above article explains, it's interpretation is varied and a bit controversal. The article explores that.

No one knows WHY this got into the creed.... obviously, early Christians must have considered this very important but WHY is ... well.... not clear.

And there has been MUCH discussion as to WHY this happened (if it literally did)... WHAT was the purpose. And that too is simply not known (although theories abound)




.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

Seems that the Nicene Creed is much better.

 

[NathanH83]

Seems that the Nicene Creed is much better.

Why is it better?

 

[Fritz Kobus]

Why is it better?

Does not include the dubious statement of descent into Hell. Also a bit more detailed that the Apostles' Creed.

 

[Albion]

It is generally accepted these days that the reference to "hell" doesn't mean the place of the damned, but it's referring to the world of spirits, specifically to those awaiting the Savior who would make possible them going on to heaven just as we who are still alive in this world count on.

Many prayer books these days use alternative language at that point in the recitation of the Creed in order to avoid this mistaken impression about Jesus' descent into "hell."

 

[MoreCoffee]

He descended into hell

The best place to start is with a definition, what does "hell" mean in the creed?

 

[Lamb]

The title of this thread makes it sound like Jesus went to hell while he was still on the cross. But that's not the case according to the creed
died, and was buried;
 he descended to hell

There are two places in scripture that refer to Jesus' descent into hell:

1 Peter 3:18-20; Colossians 2:15

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

 

[NathanH83]

Does not include the dubious statement of descent into Hell. Also a bit more detailed that the Apostles' Creed.

Dubious? Let’s see what that means:

DUBIOUS, a. [L. See Doubt. The primary sense is probably to turn or to waver.]

1. Doubtful; wavering or fluctuating in opinion; not settled; not determined; as, the mind is in a dubious state.
2. Uncertain; that of which the truth is not ascertained or known; as a dubious question.
3. Not clear; not plain; as dubious light.
4. Of uncertain event or issue.
In dubious battle.

-Noah Webster 1828


So, is this scripture verse dubious?


“I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.” (Now this, “He ascended” —what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)”
-Ephesians 4:1,7-10 - Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 4:1, Ephesians 4:7-10 - New King James Version

 

[Fritz Kobus]

“I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.” (Now this, “He ascended” —what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)”
-Ephesians 4:1,7-10 - Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 4:1, Ephesians 4:7-10 - New King James Version

I was not aware of this verse for the subject question at the time I posted. However, I am not convinced this is saying He descended into Hell. Lower parts of the land or earth might simply be saying that he came down from Heaven (the incarnation). His birth was in the lower parts of society (horse barn in town instead of a castle). So, I don't know.

 

[NathanH83]

I was not aware of this verse for the subject question at the time I posted. However, I am not convinced this is saying He descended into Hell. Lower parts of the land or earth might simply be saying that he came down from Heaven (the incarnation). His birth was in the lower parts of society (horse barn in town instead of a castle). So, I don't know.

Why not just believe what it plainly says?


“For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”
-Matthew 12:40 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 12:40 - New King James Version

“by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.”
-1 Peter 3:19-20 - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Peter 3:19-20 - New King James Version

“For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”
-1 Peter 4:6 - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Peter 4:6 - New King James Version



Clement of Alexandria, an early church father, said this:


“Wherefore the Lord preached the Gospel to those in Hades....Do not [the Scriptures] show that the Lord preached the Gospel to those that perished in the flood, or rather had been chained, and to those kept "in ward and guard"? And it has been shown also, in the second book of the Stromata, that the apostles, following the Lord, preached the Gospel to those in Hades.”

“If, then, the Lord descended to Hades for no other end but to preach the Gospel, as He did descend; it was either to preach the Gospel to all or to the Hebrews only. If, accordingly, to all, then all who believe shall be saved, although they may be of the Gentiles, on making their profession there; since God's punishments are saving and disciplinary, leading to conversion, and choosing rather the repentance them the death of a sinner; and especially since souls, although darkened by passions, when released from their bodies, are able to perceive more clearly, because of their being no longer obstructed by the paltry flesh.”

“Did not the same dispensation obtain in Hades, so that even there, all the souls, on hearing the proclamation, might either exhibit repentance, or confess that their punishment was just, because they believed not? And it were the exercise of no ordinary arbitrariness, for those who had departed before the advent of the Lord (not having the Gospel preached to them, and having afforded no ground from themselves, in consequence of believing or not) to obtain either salvation or punishment.”

-Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.490, 491.

 

[NathanH83]

http://lutherancatechism.com/doc-lib/scaer_d_he_did_descend_to_hell_in_defense_of_the_apostles.pdf

Here's an excellent article on this.... I know you've said you don't have interest in reading anything beyond the very short (and this is 9 pages long) but if you actually are interested in the question, it is very good.



The usual text here is 1 Peter 3:18-20. But as the above article explains, it's interpretation is varied and a bit controversal. The article explores that.

No one knows WHY this got into the creed.... obviously, early Christians must have considered this very important but WHY is ... well.... not clear.

And there has been MUCH discussion as to WHY this happened (if it literally did)... WHAT was the purpose. And that too is simply not known (although theories abound)




.

I just hate reading a lot on my phone. But since this is a PDF, I’ll download it and print it. Thanks.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

Why not just believe what it plainly says?


“For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”
-Matthew 12:40 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 12:40 - New King James Version

I suppose if we had the understandings of people who lived at the time it was written, we could just read it and know what it means, but remember there is over 1900 years between our culture and the culture in which the New Testament was written. Meanings and phrases have changed. To make it more complicated, some of this has to be sorted out in the translation and it does not always sort out so well. For example, what exactly does "heart of the earth (land)" mean to a man in the first century? Probably need to go to a Jewish man in the first century to get a good understanding. But I have read that it means the land in which Jerusalem sits.

Josiah posted up a good link in defense of the clause "He descended into Hell." So for contrast and to get both sides of the story, here is an article that takes the opposite side:
HE DID NOT DESCEND INTO HELL, A PLEA FOR FOLLOWING THE SCRIPTURE INSTEAD OF THE APOSTLES CREED

 

[NathanH83]

I suppose if we had the understandings of people who lived at the time it was written, we could just read it and know what it means, but remember there is over 1900 years between our culture and the culture in which the New Testament was written. Meanings and phrases have changed. To make it more complicated, some of this has to be sorted out in the translation and it does not always sort out so well. For example, what exactly does "heart of the earth (land)" mean to a man in the first century? Probably need to go to a Jewish man in the first century to get a good understanding. But I have read that it means the land in which Jerusalem sits.

Josiah posted up a good link in defense of the clause "He descended into Hell." So for contrast and to get both sides of the story, here is an article that takes the opposite side:
HE DID NOT DESCEND INTO HELL, A PLEA FOR FOLLOWING THE SCRIPTURE INSTEAD OF THE APOSTLES CREED

The modern church doesn’t want to believe what the Bible plainly says. But the early church had no problem believing.

E.T. Phone home?

 

[NathanH83]

The title of this thread makes it sound like Jesus went to hell while he was still on the cross. But that's not the case according to the creed
died, and was buried;
 he descended to hell

There are two places in scripture that refer to Jesus' descent into hell:

1 Peter 3:18-20; Colossians 2:15

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

What do you mean?
If you really want to get technical, then yea "when he was buried" is what I meant.
What's the difference? He was buried when he died on the cross.
I don't understand what you're getting at.


It's like me saying "I went to a hotel when I landed in Chicago"
And then you correct me, "No, you went to the hotel when you left the airport, not when you landed."

Ok?
We're just playing the game of technicalities now?

 

[Lamb]

What do you mean?
If you really want to get technical, then yea "when he was buried" is what I meant.
What's the difference? He was buried when he died on the cross.
I don't understand what you're getting at.


It's like me saying "I went to a hotel when I landed in Chicago"
And then you correct me, "No, you went to the hotel when you left the airport, not when you landed."

Ok?
We're just playing the game of technicalities now?

Jesus wasn't buried on the cross. He actually was taken to a tomb.

 

[NathanH83]

Jesus wasn't buried on the cross. He actually was taken to a tomb.

Thanks for telling me. I wouldn't have known otherwise.

Seriously? You're just being technical.

 

[NathanH83]

Jesus wasn't buried on the cross. He actually was taken to a tomb.

I didn’t walk off the plane straight into my hotel room. I had to leave the airport first. Just thought I’d clarify that, because you might not have known otherwise.