These two should never be separated in thought or understanding.

[visionary]

Many people think that all they have to do is "BELIEVE" in Messiah. But words in HEBREW do Not always translate correctly, fully, properly into Greek or English. And Messiah Yeshua and the Hebrew Apostles, Spoke and Wrote in Hebrew. Their WORDS and THOUGHTS therefore, Must be understood using

1.) what those WORDS and THOUGHTS mean in the TORAH ( the Foundation of All spiritual Truth )
2.) and what those WORDS and THOUGHTS mean in the HEBREW language and culture of their days. So what does "To BELIEVE" in Messiah mean according to the TORAH and according to HEBREW language and culture?

"To BELIEVE" in Messiah - does Not mean to BELIEVE that YESHUA * IS * the Messiah. The demons believe that as well! And they tremble. And they can not be redeemed or saved. So obviously it Must, and it Does, mean something else!
In Both the TORAH and in HEBREW language and culture - To BELIEVE means and requires that we Learn and Obey
What Messiah TAUGHT and LIVED by. That means and requires that we Learn and Obey the “LAW” ( TORAH תּוֹרָה )
which Messiah TAUGHT and LIVED by, and which Messiah instructed us to also Learn and Obey.

John 3:16 For ELohim אֱלֹהִים { The Father } so LOVED the world that He GAVE { Generously! } { as a FREE WILL OFFERING } .... [ teh-roo-mah תְּרוּמָה ] His only begotten { First-Born } Son, that whoever BELIEVES in Him {enough to OBEY the Commandments of God } should not perish, but have everlasting life.

That is why it says "Here are the saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Yeshua.

 

[Brighten04]

That is why it says "Here are the saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Yeshua.

The mix of law and grace, while it makes people feel righteous, does not work for creating permanent righteousness. But what does Apostle Paul say.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

I will probably get int trouble here, but, we must understand what happened when we got saved. We laid aside our own righteousness which is the curse of the law. And the Bible calls it that, the curse of the law. When Jesus died on that cross, understand, He became the law, the curse.

Gal.3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

So what do we put our faith in? In knowing that Lord Jesus took care of our sin problem at Calvary.

Gal.3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

So our faith must be in His completed work on the cross, not in our own ability to keep the law and our own righteousness.

 

[TurtleHare]

The demons believe but the system of salvation was not set up for them per God. They are still doomed and that is why they cannot have faith even though they believe who Jesus was. Faith is not for them. Either we as man have faith or we do not and those who have are enabled to believe, that belief that saves because it comes from faith.

Works in the bible, for Christians, we have to remember that the Holy Spirit guides us into doing the good works that were set aside for us to do. These works we cannot help but do. This is not to gain faith but because we have faith.

 

[visionary]

The mix of law and grace, while it makes people feel righteous, does not work foe creating permanent righteousness. But what does Apostle Paul say.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

I will probably get int trouble here, but, we must understand what happened when we got saved. We laid aside our own righteousness which is the curse of the law. And the Bible calls it that, the curse of the law. When Jesus died on that cross, understand, He became the law, the curse.

Gal.3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

So what do we put our faith in? In knowing that Lord Jesus took care of our sin problem at Calvary.

Gal.3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

So our faith must be in His completed work on the cross, not in our own ability to keep the law and our own righteousness.

The law was never for justification, it was for defining what is righteousness.

 

[Brighten04]

The law was never for justification, it was for defining what is righteousness.

The law taught us what is sin. It is how we developed sin consciousness.

! Cor. 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Lord Jesus came and gave us His righteousness, not that of the Pharisees and Sadducees. It is written

John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

 

[pinacled]

Romans 3King James Version (KJV)

3 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Luke 10
[SUP]22 [/SUP]All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

[SUP]26 [/SUP]He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

[SUP]
27 [/SUP]And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]
28 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
[SUP]
29 [/SUP]But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
[SUP]
30 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
[SUP]
37 [/SUP]And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

 

[visionary]

The law taught us what is sin. It is how we developed sin consciousness.

! Cor. 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Lord Jesus came and gave us His righteousness, not that of the Pharisees and Sadducees. It is written

John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Exactly!!!! :lonely: Yeshua writing in the sand comes to mind.

 

[Tigger]

"To BELIEVE" in Messiah - does Not mean to BELIEVE that YESHUA * IS * the Messiah. The demons believe that as well! And they tremble. And they can not be redeemed or saved. So obviously it Must, and it Does, mean something else!

I think a better way to understand believe as in 'The demons (believe) that as well! Is to understand that the kind of (belief) that is required for salvation could be better understood as (trust or trust in) Jesus which the demons do not.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Many people think that all they have to do is "BELIEVE" in Messiah. But words in HEBREW do Not always translate correctly, fully, properly into Greek or English. And Messiah Yeshua and the Hebrew Apostles, Spoke and Wrote in Hebrew. Their WORDS and THOUGHTS therefore, Must be understood using

1.) what those WORDS and THOUGHTS mean in the TORAH ( the Foundation of All spiritual Truth )
2.) and what those WORDS and THOUGHTS mean in the HEBREW language and culture of their days. So what does "To BELIEVE" in Messiah mean according to the TORAH and according to HEBREW language and culture?

"To BELIEVE" in Messiah - does Not mean to BELIEVE that YESHUA * IS * the Messiah. The demons believe that as well! And they tremble. And they can not be redeemed or saved. So obviously it Must, and it Does, mean something else!
In Both the TORAH and in HEBREW language and culture - To BELIEVE means and requires that we Learn and Obey
What Messiah TAUGHT and LIVED by. That means and requires that we Learn and Obey the “LAW” ( TORAH תּוֹרָה )
which Messiah TAUGHT and LIVED by, and which Messiah instructed us to also Learn and Obey.

John 3:16 For ELohim אֱלֹהִים { The Father } so LOVED the world that He GAVE { Generously! } { as a FREE WILL OFFERING } .... [ teh-roo-mah תְּרוּמָה ] His only begotten { First-Born } Son, that whoever BELIEVES in Him {enough to OBEY the Commandments of God } should not perish, but have everlasting life.

That is why it says "Here are the saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Yeshua.

It has to be in complete Faith, love, and respect of God and as such his creation as well. We have to be giving and compassionate as God is to us. We have to not hold tightly to our worldly possessions, but give freely, with no want for self, but what God wants of us.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[visionary]

IN agreement with God, in your mind, heart and soul and doing everything God requires of you. It is a commitment that is more than what the church or some religion requires because it isn't for the day, it is for all moments of your life. Your Body is His Temple and the services you perform in your temple before Him are in accordance to His temple services with much sacrifice, prayer, and faith.

 

[Brighten04]

"To BELIEVE" in Messiah - does Not mean to BELIEVE that YESHUA * IS * the Messiah. The demons believe that as well! And they tremble. And they can not be redeemed or saved. So obviously it Must, and it Does, mean something else!

I think a better way to understand believe as in 'The demons (believe) that as well! Is to understand that the kind of (belief) that is required for salvation could be better understood as (trust or trust in) Jesus which the demons do not.

Exactly. We rest in the finished work of Jesus on the cross. It is finished! Now I picture resting in a hammock strung between two oak trees. It is a beautiful sunny day and I am completely relaxed. I have absolute trust that the hammock will hold me. Even though that is a mundane analogy, it works in the Spirit when you picture it in your mind. That is how we trust Him.

 

[Brighten04]

IN agreement with God, in your mind, heart and soul and doing everything God requires of you. It is a commitment that is more than what the church or some religion requires because it isn't for the day, it is for all moments of your life. Your Body is His Temple and the services you perform in your temple before Him are in accordance to His temple services with much sacrifice, prayer, and faith.

Romans 12:I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

You know. I saw a youtube video on the layout of the temple and it looked like a man. I will see if I can find it again to show you all.

 

[Brighten04]

This is Ezekiel's Temple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M58fM2ae7Zw

 

[visionary]

http://www.templesecrets.info/

 

[visionary]

Did you know that it kind of reminds me of Daniel's dream .... and when we get down to the feet, it will be hit with "a stone made without hands". Except for one little factor... the feet mixed with clay is not a material used in God's temple requirements.

 

[visionary]

NEBUCHADNEZZAR had a dream Daniel interpreted as the future world kingdoms (Daniel Chapter 2). Here, in Chapter 7, Daniel has a dream about these same kingdoms, only from his spiritual perspective the kingdoms are seen as savage beasts, not a man. The lion corresponds to the head of gold, which is Babylon, and the man’s heart being given the beast may refer to the change in the king after being delivered from his insanity, and he praises and honors the Living God (Dan.4). The bear would be the Medo-Persian Empire, and the three ribs refer to Babylon, Egypt & Libya that they conquered. The leopard is the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great, who swiftly conquered the world in only ten years. It had four heads because the empire was divided among four generals after Alexander died at the age of 32. The 4th beast, with teeth of iron, would be Rome.

The 10 horns correspond to the 10 toes, representing a ten nation confederacy on earth during the Great Tribulation. The little horn with a big mouth (Antichrist) will die a fiery death. Revelation reveals how Antichrist comes on the scene and is cast into the lake of fire. God makes these predictions through a Babylonian king, a Hebrew prophet & the apostle John over more than 600 years. We are fast approaching that time.

 

[psalms 91]

NEBUCHADNEZZAR had a dream Daniel interpreted as the future world kingdoms (Daniel Chapter 2). Here, in Chapter 7, Daniel has a dream about these same kingdoms, only from his spiritual perspective the kingdoms are seen as savage beasts, not a man. The lion corresponds to the head of gold, which is Babylon, and the man’s heart being given the beast may refer to the change in the king after being delivered from his insanity, and he praises and honors the Living God (Dan.4). The bear would be the Medo-Persian Empire, and the three ribs refer to Babylon, Egypt & Libya that they conquered. The leopard is the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great, who swiftly conquered the world in only ten years. It had four heads because the empire was divided among four generals after Alexander died at the age of 32. The 4th beast, with teeth of iron, would be Rome.

The 10 horns correspond to the 10 toes, representing a ten nation confederacy on earth during the Great Tribulation. The little horn with a big mouth (Antichrist) will die a fiery death. Revelation reveals how Antichrist comes on the scene and is cast into the lake of fire. God makes these predictions through a Babylonian king, a Hebrew prophet & the apostle John over more than 600 years. We are fast approaching that time.

Yes, that is the interpretation

 

[Brighten04]

Yes, that is the interpretation

And how we know we are not there yet.

 

[visionary]

Clay feet...

 

[Brighten04]

Clay feet...

Iron mixed with miry clay feet. Think hybrid.