John 10:33

[MoreCoffee]

John 10:33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy: and because that thou. being a, man, makest thyself God.

Are the Jews right? Was Jesus making himself the equal of God?

 

[Lamb]

Jesus IS God. The Jews that called His words blasphemy didn't have faith in that.

 

[Albion]

John 10:33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy: and because that thou. being a, man, makest thyself God.

Are the Jews right? Was Jesus making himself the equal of God?

As Lamb said, Jesus IS/WAS God, so of course the Jews who are mentioned in this case were wrong. More important, however, may be the fact that Jesus did not equivocate in the face of their questioning, which is something he could not do with any integrity if he actually was a prophet or an angelic messenger, etc., but not God. This is what many people say who want to agree to "half a loaf" by picturing Jesus as special, unique, and on a divine mission, etc. but less than God in the flesh.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The Jews reasoned that Jesus was making himself God.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
• John 10:30 . . I and my Father are one.

The Greek word translated "one" means the numeral 1, i.e. a counting of less than
2

Well; I can understand the Jews' reaction because the Shema says:

"Hear O’ Israel, The Lord is our God: The Lord is One." (Deut 6:4)

The Hebrew word translated "one" in that verse is a little more versatile than the
Greek word. It can indicate the numeral 1 but it can also mean unified and/or first.

That's kind of vague because it can indicate the The Lord is numero uno, i.e. the
top dog among the gods (so to speak).

I don't think Jesus was claiming to share the numero uno spot with God, but merely
saying that he and his Father were unified in their objective to round up the sheep
and keep them safe.

• John 10:27-29 . . My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any
man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than
all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

However; Jesus made no attempt to clarify his remark but instead sent his critics
to Psalm 82; which only served to baffle them even more.
_

 

[MoreCoffee]

The Jews were right. Jesus being a, man, makes himself God.
Their fault was not in their reasoning.
It was in their unbelief.
They saw the man, saw the miracles he did, and rejected him and his claim.
The Jews preferred to stone him for alleged blasphemy -
Jesus' claim would be blasphemy only if it were not true.
But John believed Jesus is God and so do Christians.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
• John 10:27-28 . . My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone
pluck them out of my hand.

Jesus has all the miraculous powers of God at his disposal to utilize in keeping the
sheep right where he wants them; so that promise above wasn't made while talking
thru his hat.

• John 10:29 . . My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and nothing is
able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

In other words: as powerful as Jesus is, the Father is powerful more. So even if the
sheep were to succeed in escaping Jesus' grasp, they'd still have to escape the
Father's grasp; which isn't' likely.

* It's sometimes alleged that the sheep-- of their own free will --can remove
themselves from Jesus' grasp. However, that would be very difficult seeing as how
Jesus' desire to please his Father trumps the sheep's desire to escape.

• John 6:39 . . This is the Father's will which hath sent me; that of all which He hath
given me I should lose nothing.

Jesus said that he never fails to comply with his Father' will.

• John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I
do always those things that please him.

Were Jesus to allow even one sheep to escape his grasp, then he would fail to
always please his Father. He might please Him sometimes, and even most of the
time, but not always.
_

 

[Albion]

.
I don't think Jesus was claiming to share the numero uno spot with God, but merely
saying that he and his Father were unified in their objective to round up the sheep
and keep them safe.

Jesus was and is God...and he knew it. This statement (above) sounds like another attempt to make Jesus into some sort of messenger sent from God, perhaps a human prophet or an archangel, which is what some of the best-known cults preach. In other words, It's important for Christians to choose their words carefully when discussing a topic like this one.

 

[MoreCoffee]

• John 10:29 . . My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and nothing is
able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

In other words: as powerful as Jesus is, the Father is powerful more. So even if the
sheep were to succeed in escaping Jesus' grasp, they'd still have to escape the
Father's grasp; which isn't' likely.

I think that the explanation given is incorrect. The reasoning appears to assume that Jesus and the Father are two independent beings, one being the greater (the Father, who is identified as God) and the other being the lesser (the Son, that is to say, Jesus). A better explanation is this, given by Albert Barnes in his Notes on the Bible.

Verse 29​

Which gave them me - See John 6:37.

Is greater - Is more powerful.

Than all - Than all others - men, angels, devils. The word includes everything - everything that could attempt to pluck them away from God; in other words, it means that God is supreme. It implies, further, that God will keep them, and will so control all other beings and things that they shall be safe.

None is able - None has power to do it. In these two verses we are taught the following important truths:

1.That Christians are given by God the Father to Christ.

2.That Jesus gives to them eternal life, or procures by his death and intercession, and imparts to them by his Spirit, that religion which shall result in eternal life.

3.That both the Father and the Son are pledged to keep them so that they shall never fall away and perish. It would be impossible for any language to teach more explicitly that the saints will persevere.

4.That there is no power in man or devils to defeat the purpose of the Redeemer to save his people. We also see our safety, if we truly, humbly, cordially, and daily commit ourselves to God the Saviour. In no other way can we have evidence that we are his people than by such a persevering resignation of ourselves to him, to obey his law, and to follow him through evil report or good report. If we do that we are safe. If we do not that we have no evidence of piety, and are not, cannot be safe.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
The Word of John 1:1-3 didn't come into the world as a divine hominid, instead, he
came as an ordinary man.

• John 1:14 . . So the Word became human and lived here on earth among
us.

• 1John 4:1-2 . .There are many false prophets in the world. This is the way to find
out if they have the Spirit of God: If a prophet acknowledges that Jesus Christ
became a human being, that person has the Spirit of God.

Ordinary men are subservient to a higher power.

• John 6:38 . . I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will
of Him who sent me

The scope of the human Word's servitude was extensive enough to cost him his
life.

• Phil 2:7-8 . . He made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a
servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a
man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death

A servant's business is managed by his master.

• John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative

As any good servant would, the human Word complied with his master's business to
the letter.

• John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I
do always those things that please Him.

• John 14:31 . . That the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father
gave me commandment, even so I do.
_

 

[MoreCoffee]

.
The Word of John 1:1-3 didn't come into the world as a divine hominid, instead, he
came as an ordinary man.

• John 1:14 . . So the Word became human and lived here on earth among
us.

• 1John 4:1-2 . .There are many false prophets in the world. This is the way to find
out if they have the Spirit of God: If a prophet acknowledges that Jesus Christ
became a human being, that person has the Spirit of God.

Ordinary men are subservient to a higher power.

• John 6:38 . . I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will
of Him who sent me

The scope of the human Word's servitude was extensive enough to cost him his
life.

• Phil 2:7-8 . . He made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a
servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a
man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death

A servant's business is managed by his master.

• John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative

As any good servant would, the human Word complied with his master's business to
the letter.

• John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I
do always those things that please Him.

• John 14:31 . . That the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father
gave me commandment, even so I do.
_

John 1:1-3 doesn't say that the Word came to earth. That is said in John 1:14.
John 1:1-5 tells the reader that the Word is God and that the Word created everything that was created. The verses also say that Life was in him and that Life was the Light of humanity.

 

[Lees]

@ MoreCoffee

Yes, the Jews were right in understanding that Jesus made Himself equal with God.

Lees

 

[atpollard]

John 10:33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy: and because that thou. being a, man, makest thyself God.

Are the Jews right? Was Jesus making himself the equal of God?

Yes, Jesus WAS claiming equality with God (the Father).
No, it was not blasphemy.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
The Jews that accused Jesus of blaspheme per John 10:24-33 were poorly-trained.

The title "Son of God" is commonly believed by quite a few folk to be an indication
of deity; and it is, but not in the way they think. All messianic kings were sons of
God in their own turn; beginning with David (Ps 89:20-27) then Solomon (1Kings
1:13-39, 1Chron 22:9-10) Zerubbabel (Hab 2:21-23) and finally Messiah, the chiefest
of them all. (Ps 2:1-12, Ps 45:1-17, Ps 110:1)

There are incidents in the New Testament where Jesus didn't bother to clear up
people's misunderstandings. But we dare not become critical and/or indignant
because his ministry was micro-managed by a higher power.

• John 6:38 . . I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will
of Him who sent me

• John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative

• John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I
do always those things that please Him.

• John 14:31 . . That the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father
gave me commandment, even so I do.

• Phil 2:7-8 . . He made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a
servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a
man, he humbled himself, and became obedient . .
_

 

[Albion]

.
There are incidents in the New Testament where Jesus didn't bother to clear up
people's misunderstandings.

That's very true.

because his ministry was micro-managed by a higher power.

Definitely not that!

We dare not fall into thinking that way. Jesus Christ was God himself, possessed of a full and complete divine nature (along with a complete human nature in addition).

 

[MoreCoffee]

I don't think Jesus was claiming to share the numero uno spot with God, but merely
saying that he and his Father were unified in their objective to round up the sheep
and keep them safe.

Does this mean that any human being who shares God's purpose to "round up the sheep" is one with God and therefore would be thought to be a blasphemer by "the Jews"?

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.

Does this mean that any human being who shares God's purpose to "round up the
sheep" is one with God and therefore would be thought to be a blasphemer by "the
Jews"?

Why did you leave out the element of safety?

You see: when Jesus claimed that nothing can take his sheep out of his hand, his
critics' brains heard him make a claim that in their opinions only God could
guarantee. But most of us are confident that any man who can calm storms, walk
on water, restore the dead to life, and exorcise demons; would experience very
little difficulty protecting his flock from predators.
_

 

[MoreCoffee]

.


Why did you leave out the element of safety?

You see: when Jesus claimed that nothing can take his sheep out of his hand, his
critics' brains heard him make a claim that in their opinions only God could
guarantee. But most of us are confident that any man who can calm storms, walk
on water, restore the dead to life, and exorcise demons; would experience very
little difficulty protecting his flock from predators.
_

nevertheless many professing Christians do in fact leave and some become atheists.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
Christ is losing none of the sheep that his Father entrusted to his care.

• John 6:37 . . All that the Father gives me will come to me

• John 6:39 . .This is the will of Him who sent me: that I shall lose none of all that He
has given me

You see, the sheep's safety doesn't depend upon their loyalty to Jesus, rather, their
safety depends upon Jesus' loyalty to his Father.

• John 8:29 . . I do always those things that please Him.

• John 14:31 . . That the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father
gave me commandment, even so I do.
_