LCMS Eucharist

[Faith]

I’ve been waffling lately between staying at my Lutheran LCMS church and returning to Catholicism. I made the decision to stay at the Lutheran church but here’s my question. I spoke with a Catholic priest who told me that only a priest with valid holy orders has the power to confect the Eucharist and make Jesus present in the Eucharist.
So how can Jesus be in the bread and wine at LCMS since the pastor doesn’t have valid priestly orders?

And how can Jesus disappear after Communion? After Communion we throw our tiny, individual empty cups in a trash container but there’s still wine residue on them. At a Catholic Church the priest would say Jesus is still present after Communion, which is why they have the tabernacle.

 

[Lamb]

You don't believe God calls the pastors of LCMS churches to lead the congregations and most especially to consecrate the elements? Why would only the priests of the Roman Catholic church be eligible?

Jesus is present in, with and under the bread and wine because Jesus instituted the Holy Supper and God calls pastors to consecrate and distribute the meal.

Jesus never said His body and blood linger after Communion. What is the purpose of Holy Communion? It is for us to eat His body and drink His blood for the forgiveness of sins. Once communion is over, that mission was complete and the elements no longer contain His body and blood. A lot of LCMS churches have a special sink to pour down the remaining wine and some pour it reverently into the ground.

 

[Faith]

Off topic, but I saw this lamb online and took a screen shot of it because it’s adorbs. I’m not trying to copy you or anything.

 

[Albion]

I’ve been waffling lately between staying at my Lutheran LCMS church and returning to Catholicism. I made the decision to stay at the Lutheran church but here’s my question. I spoke with a Catholic priest who told me that only a priest with valid holy orders has the power to confect the Eucharist and make Jesus present in the Eucharist.
So how can Jesus be in the bread and wine at LCMS since the pastor doesn’t have valid priestly orders?

I'd think that you must first decide if the claim of him not having valid orders is correct or not.

And how can Jesus disappear after Communion? After Communion we throw our tiny, individual empty cups in a trash container but there’s still wine residue on them. At a Catholic Church the priest would say Jesus is still present after Communion, which is why they have the tabernacle.

What you've described seems to me to be a crude way of concluding the distribution of the Communion and not what I've ever experienced in a Lutheran church. In any case, a more reverent way that some Lutheran churches use is to pour what remains into a special basin and drain (which is also to be found in Catholic churches) or upon the ground.

In the Catholic Church, the claim is made that no wine/blood escapes but only water. However, during washing of the chalice and the cloth that wipes it, SOME of the wine remains in or on the chalice and cloth--the point you, in effect, were making--no matter how little that amounts to. In the Anglican churches, the priest is directed to consume all the unused but consecrated wine, himself.

 

[Faith]

I'd think that you must first decide if the claim of him not having valid orders is correct or not.


What you've described seems to me to be a crude way of concluding the distribution of the Communion and not what I've ever experienced in a Lutheran church. In any case, a more reverent way that some Lutheran churches use is to pour what remains into a special basin and drain (which is also to be found in Catholic churches) or upon the ground.

In the Catholic Church, the claim is made that no wine/blood escapes but only water. However, during washing of the chalice and the cloth that wipes it, SOME of the wine remains in or on the chalice and cloth--the point you, in effect, were making--no matter how little that amounts to. In the Anglican churches, the priest is directed to consume all the unused but consecrated wine, himself.

Are you referring to to my claim that the Lutheran pastor has invalid orders or what?

 

[Faith]

I'd think that you must first decide if the claim of him not having valid orders is correct or not.


What you've described seems to me to be a crude way of concluding the distribution of the Communion and not what I've ever experienced in a Lutheran church. In any case, a more reverent way that some Lutheran churches use is to pour what remains into a special basin and drain (which is also to be found in Catholic churches) or upon the ground.

In the Catholic Church, the claim is made that no wine/blood escapes but only water. However, during washing of the chalice and the cloth that wipes it, SOME of the wine remains in or on the chalice and cloth--the point you, in effect, were making--no matter how little that amounts to. In the Anglican churches, the priest is directed to consume all the unused but consecrated wine, himself.

Well the container we put the used cups in are decorative but I think they’re lined with trash bags

 

[Albion]

Are you referring to to my claim that the Lutheran pastor has invalid orders or what?

I referred to several points you made in that post. The one I think you are asking me about was the one that suggested that Catholic priests do not wash away, etc. any of the consecrated wine/blood whereas that's what happens when the individual cups in use at your current church are collected for disposal.

In fact, the Catholic practice, although arguably more careful, still does wash away some of the consecrated material. In other words, there may not actually be the difference you were led to believe exists between the two denominations.

 

[Faith]

I referred to several points you made in that post. The one I think you are asking me about was the one that suggested that Catholic priests do not wash away, etc. any of the consecrated wine/blood whereas that's what happens when the individual cups in use at your current church are collected for disposal.

In fact, the Catholic practice, although arguably more careful, still does wash away some of the consecrated material. In other words, there may not actually be the difference you were led to believe exists between the two denominations.

No, my MAIN point was the priests claim that Jesus can‘t be in the Eucharist unless it’s confected by a validly ordained priest.

 

[Albion]

No, my MAIN point was the priests claim that Jesus can‘t be in the Eucharist unless it’s confected by a validly ordained priest.

and I answered to that one, too. That's their claim, of course, but them saying what you reported doesn't make the claim correct.

As I read your post, and now this later one, it sounds as though you think that what the Catholic priest said when you asked about this is definitive. But of course, it isn't.

The reply you received from Lamb outlined the opposing POV very well, and whichever way you come down on this issue...with the Catholics or with the Protestants...it settles the issue of valid Communions for you.

 

[Faith]

You don't believe God calls the pastors of LCMS churches to lead the congregations and most especially to consecrate the elements? Why would only the priests of the Roman Catholic church be eligible?

Jesus is present in, with and under the bread and wine because Jesus instituted the Holy Supper and God calls pastors to consecrate and distribute the meal.

 

[Faith]

You don't believe God calls the pastors of LCMS churches to lead the congregations and most especially to consecrate the elements? Why would only the priests of the Roman Catholic church be eligible?

Jesus is present in, with and under the bread and wine because Jesus instituted the Holy Supper and God calls pastors to consecrate and distribute the meal.

Jesus never said His body and blood linger after Communion. What is the purpose of Holy Communion? It is for us to eat His body and drink His blood for the forgiveness of sins. Once communion is over, that mission was complete and the elements no longer contain His body and blood. A lot of LCMS churches have a special sink to pour down the remaining wine and some pour it reverently into the ground.

I was raised Catholic and heard this stuff all my life. I just want to know how someone who isn’t an ordained priest has the power to turn bread and wine into Jesus and his blood?

 

[Fritz Kobus]

I was raised Catholic and heard this stuff all my life. I just want to know how someone who isn’t an ordained priest has the power to turn bread and wine into Jesus and his blood?

Well, it never says in the Bible that one has to be an ordained priest to serve communion. Nobody but God has power like that anyway. Consider God working in the bread and wine. The priest or pastor or deacon is just serving it.

 

[Spindle4]

I’ve been waffling lately between staying at my Lutheran LCMS church and returning to Catholicism. I made the decision to stay at the Lutheran church but here’s my question. I spoke with a Catholic priest who told me that only a priest with valid holy orders has the power to confect the Eucharist and make Jesus present in the Eucharist.
So how can Jesus be in the bread and wine at LCMS since the pastor doesn’t have valid priestly orders?

And how can Jesus disappear after Communion? After Communion we throw our tiny, individual empty cups in a trash container but there’s still wine residue on them. At a Catholic Church the priest would say Jesus is still present after Communion, which is why they have the tabernacle.

Since the doctrine of Transubstantiation is not Biblical, no harm, no foul when the elements are partaken of in remembrance of Christ.

 

[RichWh1]

I was raised Catholic and heard this stuff all my life. I just want to know how someone who isn’t an ordained priest has the power to turn bread and wine into Jesus and his blood?

No man has the power to turn bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus. Nowhere in the Scriptures does it mention that Jesus gave the apostles power to do this. It has been extrapolated in RC teaching. The Catholic Church confuses the terms communion with Eucharist when actually they are the same thing


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[Faith]

Since the doctrine of Transubstantiation is not Biblical, no harm, no foul when the elements are partaken of in remembrance of Christ.

Yes, but, despite transubstantiation not being in the Bible, Catholics believe the Host becomes Jesus, and the wine becomes His Blood, Lutherans believe that Christ and His Blood are”truly and substantially present in, with and under“ the bread and wine.

 

[Faith]

No man has the power to turn bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus. Nowhere in the Scriptures does it mention that Jesus gave the apostles power to do this. It has been extrapolated in RC teaching. The Catholic Church confuses the terms communion with Eucharist when actually they are the same thing


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No MAN has that power but my pastor says that the Holy Spirit whom he calls upon does.

 

[Spindle4]

Yes, but, despite transubstantiation not being in the Bible, Catholics believe the Host becomes Jesus, and the wine becomes His Blood, Lutherans believe that Christ and His Blood are”truly and substantially present in, with and under“ the bread and wine.

Oh yes, I'm well aware of the dogmas, but some of us have dogma-free in-home ekklesias with shared meals and a simple communion celebration in remembrance of Christ. The yokes of human hierachy and tradition are not favoured on these occasions.

Luk 11:46 And He said, "Woe to you also, lawyers! For you load men with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not touch the burdens with one of your fingers.

 

[Albion]

Yes, but, despite transubstantiation not being in the Bible, Catholics believe the Host becomes Jesus, and the wine becomes His Blood, Lutherans believe that Christ and His Blood are”truly and substantially present in, with and under“ the bread and wine.

That's correct. The Lutheran view of the Eucharist is similar to that of the Catholic Church and not at all in line with what some posters here have said when giving you their own understanding of the sacrament.

In other words, you are not asking about that issue but, rather, about the authority (or lack of it) that Christ invested in the priest/minister who consecrates the bread and wine..

The Catholic Church's answer is, of course, that only the "one true Church," was given that authority and theirs is it! So if that claim is not persuasive to you, what makes Lutheran pastors be authorized is that they were properly called and vested with this responsibility by a congregation of believers as is described in the New Testament.

 

[Lamb]

I was raised Catholic and heard this stuff all my life. I just want to know how someone who isn’t an ordained priest has the power to turn bread and wine into Jesus and his blood?

You said "power". Men don't have power to change the bread and wine into body and blood. The only reason that we receive His body and blood is because of God's word that promises to be there so we can receive forgiveness of sins.

God prefers order and He calls men to be pastors of churches and they are the ones to lead the service and say the words of institution. That's not power. That's being a servant.

 

[Josiah]

I’ve been waffling lately between staying at my Lutheran LCMS church and returning to Catholicism. I made the decision to stay at the Lutheran church but here’s my question. I spoke with a Catholic priest who told me that only a priest with valid holy orders has the power to confect the Eucharist and make Jesus present in the Eucharist.
So how can Jesus be in the bread and wine at LCMS since the pastor doesn’t have valid priestly orders?

You are ASSUMING that the absurd, unbiblical claim of that Catholic priest is correct.

FIRST, he needs to prove that only a priest of that singular denomination who has "valid orders" in that one singular denomination can consecrate the elements. It's an egotistical, divisive, entirely baseless claim.

has the power

Yeah, everything in Catholicism seems to be about human POWER.



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