What is the throne of divine grace?

[Lanman87]

the valid and faithful bishops are the true church,

You are missing the point. It is the church itself that defines who is faithful and true. If you are Catholic and the church defines a bishop as valid, then they are valid. There is no room for doubt, else you are doubting the infallibility of the church. If you are saying the church got it wrong by choosing men as bishops who either aren't qualified or else teach error then you are saying the church isn't infallible.


If someone, after they become bishop, starts to teach error, then it is the responsibility of the church to depose that person from being a bishop. If the church doesn't live up to that responsibility and someone remains a bishop while teaching error, then the church is in error and not infallible.

You can't say the church is infallible and chose heretics (or keep heretics) as bishops. Either the church is infallible and every person chosen as bishops was an act of God through the power of the Holy Spirit or some bishops were chosen in error, in which case you can't say the church is infallible.

So which is it? Are all bishops that the church has chosen and ordained valid or is the church not infallible?

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

You are missing the point. It is the church itself that defines who is faithful and true. If you are Catholic and the church defines a bishop as valid, then they are valid. There is no room for doubt, else you are doubting the infallibility of the church. If you are saying the church got it wrong by choosing men as bishops who either aren't qualified or else teach error then you are saying the church isn't infallible.


If someone, after they become bishop, starts to teach error, then it is the responsibility of the church to depose that person from being a bishop. If the church doesn't live up to that responsibility and someone remains a bishop while teaching error, then the church is in error and not infallible.

You can't say the church is infallible and chose heretics (or keep heretics) as bishops. Either the church is infallible and every person chosen as bishops was an act of God through the power of the Holy Spirit or some bishops were chosen in error, in which case you can't say the church is infallible.

So which is it? Are all bishops that the church has chosen and ordained valid or is the church not infallible?

Infallibility has strict narrow definitions

and any heretic or one teaching heresy after being made bishop is null and void
All heretics, schismatics and apostates are outside the church

 

[Lanman87]

and any heretic or one teaching heresy after being made bishop is null and void

Not until the church declares them to be a heretic. If the church doesn't declare them to be a heretic, then they aren't a heretic.

 

[Lanman87]

At any rate, to get us back on Topic. Every catholic view I've read on the "Throne of Grace" is that it is God's throne and "going boldly" to the throne of Grace refers to the sacrament of reconciliation. In other words, going to the throne of grace is confessing your sins to your priest who acting in place of Christ, forgives your sins.

Protestants, especially American Evangelicals disagree with the Sacrament of Reconciliation as something done by a Priest. We believe we access the Throne of Grace by Faith in the Great High Priest that is worked out in Prayer to God directly through Jesus Christ. The reason being is that there is only one mediator between God and Man, Jesus Christ. It is through Him we not only receive forgiveness of all sins, but also receive all grace and blessings that come with living a life of Faith.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Not until the church declares them to be a heretic. If the church doesn't declare them to be a heretic, then they aren't a heretic.

Not so it’s ispso facto automatic

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

At any rate, to get us back on Topic. Every catholic view I've read on the "Throne of Grace" is that it is God's throne and "going boldly" to the throne of Grace refers to the sacrament of reconciliation. In other words, going to the throne of grace is confessing your sins to your priest who acting in place of Christ, forgives your sins.

Protestants, especially American Evangelicals disagree with the Sacrament of Reconciliation as something done by a Priest. We believe we access the Throne of Grace by Faith in the Great High Priest that is worked out in Prayer to God directly through Jesus Christ. The reason being is that there is only one mediator between God and Man, Jesus Christ. It is through Him we not only receive forgiveness of all sins, but also receive all grace and blessings that come with living a life of Faith.

That makes sense
But all graces come thru mary
But I don’t think it’s God’s great white throne

 

[Lanman87]

That makes sense
But all graces come thru mary
But I don’t think it’s God’s great white throne

It is a free country and you can believe whatever you want.

However, this puts you at odds not only with the majority of Protestants but also the majority of Catholics. Both of whom believe the throne of Grace refers to God's throne.

The difference between Protestants and Catholics about how we approach the "throne of grace". Protestants say as individuals through faith and Catholics says through confession to a priest.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

It is a free country and you can believe whatever you want.

However, this puts you at odds not only with the majority of Protestants but also the majority of Catholics. Both of whom believe the throne of Grace refers to God's throne.

The difference between Protestants and Catholics about how we approach the "throne of grace". Protestants say as individuals through faith and Catholics says through confession to a priest.

Jesus is high priest so there must be low priests

 

[Lanman87]

Jesus is high priest so there must be low priests

Yes, we are all part of the priesthood of the believer.


9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10 NASB

Notice that this is talking to all believers, the people of God. Not a sub group. We are all as part of this royal priesthood to proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called us out of darkness into His marvelous light.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Yes, we are all part of the priesthood of the believer.


9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10 NASB

Notice that this is talking to all believers, the people of God. Not a sub group. We are all as part of this royal priesthood to proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called us out of darkness into His marvelous light.

Yes that’s true of the royal priesthood but Jesus high priest according to the order of Melchizedek so there must be low priests of the same order

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Those who offer the eternal sacrifice of christ

 

[Lanman87]

Those who offer the eternal sacrifice of christ

We don't offer Christ sacrifice. We accept the sacrifice He offered to us.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

We don't offer Christ sacrifice. We accept the sacrifice He offered to us.

The church has always offered the holy sacrifice of the mass, the eternal sacrifice of Christ

 

[Lanman87]

The church has always offered the holy sacrifice of the mass, the eternal sacrifice of Christ

This thread isn't about the sacrificial nature of the Eucharist and roll of priest. If you want to talk about that then I suggest you start another thread.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

This thread isn't about the sacrificial nature of the Eucharist and roll of priest. If you want to talk about that then I suggest you start another thread.

All grace is from Christ and His eternal sacrifice