Mary

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Eve was the first to be attacked by Satan. Ever since Eve fell mankind (Eve's offspring) has been adversaries of Satan. But there is a specific offspring (Christ) who will "bruise satan's head". Christ is the one who makes all things new and restores people and eventually all of creation to the correct relationship with God.

Says Mary is his adversary both gen 3:15 and rev 12

 

[Lanman87]

Says Mary is his adversary both gen 3:15 and rev 12

That is what you read into it, but that is not what it says. You have just be conditioned to believe that from your Catholic teaching. Those are assumptions from the Catholic point of view and not what the text actually says.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

That is what you read into it, but that is not what it says. You have just be conditioned to believe that from your Catholic teaching. Those are assumptions from the Catholic point of view and not what the text actually says.

No from scripture
Gen 3:15 I shall put
So it’s not eve but in the future
The seed that crushes Satan is christ
So I must be mary
Care to try
Mother of God now?

 

[Castle Church]

No from scripture
Gen 3:15 I shall put
So it’s not eve but in the future
The seed that crushes Satan is christ
So I must be mary
Care to try
Mother of God now?

Or the "future" of the second after God commands it; or even the future of Eve's children, the "future" does not have to be decades or centuries later.

 

[Lanman87]

No from scripture
Gen 3:15 I shall put
So it’s not eve but in the future
The seed that crushes Satan is christ
So I must be mary
Care to try
Mother of God now?

Let's read this again

I will put enmity between you (Satan) and the woman (Eve),
and between your offspring and(Satans) her offspring (Eve's offspring to every generation);
he(Christ) shall bruise your head,
and you(Satan) shall bruise his heel. Gen 3:15 ESV The parentheses are mine just to show who is being referred to.

Because of both their roles in the fall, God is putting a curse on both Satan and the women (eve) and not only on them but also on their decedents.

The final curse on Satan is the one of the decedents of Eve(Christ) will bruise (crush in some translations) Satans head while Satan will only bruise Christ heal.

To read Mary into this is just grasping at straws.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Or the "future" of the second after God commands it; or even the future of Eve's children, the "future" does not have to be decades or centuries later.

Christ is the indicator

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Let's read this again

I will put enmity between you (Satan) and the woman (Eve),
and between your offspring and(Satans) her offspring (Eve's offspring to every generation);
he(Christ) shall bruise your head,
and you(Satan) shall bruise his heel. Gen 3:15 ESV The parentheses are mine just to show who is being referred to.

Because of both their roles in the fall, God is putting a curse on both Satan and the women (eve) and not only on them but also on their decedents.

The final curse on Satan is the one of the decedents of Eve(Christ) will bruise (crush in some translations) Satans head while Satan will only bruise Christ heal.

To read Mary into this is just grasping at straws.

Christ is the key indicator
It refers to Mary she is his mother

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Genesis 3:15

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

​

15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

satan had pride
Mary humility Lk 1:48

 

[Castle Church]

Christ is the indicator

I disagree, it is beholden on you to prove why the scripture does not mean the plain reading.

Genesis 3:15

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

​

15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

satan had pride
Mary humility Lk 1:48

Satan had pride, and Mary humility, but it still does not imply that the verse is about Mary at all; plainly read it is about Eve and Eve's children. It is easy enough to read Jesus and Mary into the text as you do, but it is not a plain reading. Reading back into the text to use it to "prove" something only cheapens the real prophesies and types.

We can pick our all sorts of verses out of context to prove all sorts of wacky ideas and doctrines.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

I disagree, it is beholden on you to prove why the scripture does not mean the plain reading.

Satan had pride, and Mary humility, but it still does not imply that the verse is about Mary at all; plainly read it is about Eve and Eve's children. It is easy enough to read Jesus and Mary into the text as you do, but it is not a plain reading. Reading back into the text to use it to "prove" something only cheapens the real prophesies and types.

We can pick our all sorts of verses out of context to prove all sorts of wacky ideas and doctrines.

The holy church with apostolic authority applies it to mary
What about rev 12?

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

The nature of vice and virtue:

Pride by its nature must always be in rebellion and protest!
Alway say no, I will not serve!
Always associated with presumption and arrogance!

Humility by its nature must obey, and be faithful! Unless you become like little children. Matt 18:3 always associated with faith, hope, and charity!

The truth is filled with virtues and sets us free!
The doctrine of devils is filled with the vices of the devils to ensnare those who refuse to listen to the truth from the bosom of holy mother church!

 

[Lanman87]

The holy church with apostolic authority applies it to mary

The Catholic churches claims of special authority and infallibility are man made teachings that were developed to help conslidate and keep power and wealth. They aren't rooted in scripture or the gospel of Jesus Christ and have led to massive corruption in the Catholic church.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

The Catholic churches claims of special authority and infallibility are man made teachings that were developed to help conslidate and keep power and wealth. They aren't rooted in scripture or the gospel of Jesus Christ and have led to massive corruption in the Catholic church.

Really? Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13
Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) holy mother church replaced Israel Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

 

[Lanman87]

Really?

Yes. Because it is true.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Did Christ found a church?

 

[Lanman87]

Did Christ found a church?

Yes, and it is made of the elect. All those who come to faith in Him. His Kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36) it is a spiritual kingdom made of all who have came been adopted (Romans 8:14-16), who are new creations (2 Corth 5:17), and who are being transformed into Christ image (2 Corinthians 3:18) and whom God has given a new heart and a new Spirit (Ezek 36:26). Anywhere 2 or 3 of the elect are gathered together there is the church (Matt 18:20) . The Greek word for church is Eclessia, which literally means assembly or gathering. In this case, the gathering of the elect.

The word "Church" in the New Testament is never referring to the Roman Catholic church or any Institution of ruled by men.

The Roman Catholic church is a kingdom of this world, complete with a King (pope), Nobility (Cardinals and Bishops) and Commoners (laity).

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Yes, and it is made of the elect. All those who come to faith in Him. His Kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36) it is a spiritual kingdom made of all who have came been adopted (Romans 8:14-16), who are new creations (2 Corth 5:17), and who are being transformed into Christ image (2 Corinthians 3:18) and whom God has given a new heart and a new Spirit (Ezek 36:26). Anywhere 2 or 3 of the elect are gathered together there is the church (Matt 18:20) . The Greek word for church is Eclessia, which literally means assembly or gathering. In this case, the gathering of the elect.

The word "Church" in the New Testament is never referring to the Roman Catholic church or any Institution of ruled by men.

The Roman Catholic church is a kingdom of this world, complete with a King (pope), Nobility (Cardinals and Bishops) and Commoners (laity).

It has spiritual and supernatural aspects but it’s the body (physical) of christ
Christ is king and rules
With hierarchical authority to teach all nations

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

A Royal greeting!

Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!

God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!

This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!

In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Dread thou not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

St. Gregory the great says: Mary is above the angels, hence their queen, the angel is addressing his queen and mistress!

St. Jerome tells us "We should realize that Mary means Lady in the Syrian language."

St. Peter Chrysologus says "The Hebrew name ‘Mary’ means ‘Domina’ [Lady] in Latin. The Angel therefore calls her Lady so that the Mother of the Lord, whom the authority of her Son made and caused to be born and to be called the Lady, might be without servile fear."

St. Ephrem has Mary saying: "Let Heaven sustain me in its embrace, because I am honored above it. For heaven was not Thy mother, but Thou hast made it Thy throne. How much more honorable and venerable than the throne of a king is his mother."

St. Gregory Nazianzen calls her "the Mother of the King of the entire universe" as well as "Virgin Mother who brought forth the King of the entire world." - The Church Fathers On The Queenship Of Mary

St. John Damascene calls her: "Queen, ruler, and lady".

In the Jewish culture, a Davidic King would have his mother as Queen rather than his wife, because he rarely had one wife, but many wives. Sharing power with many wives would be much too difficult, but he had only one mother and she was given the title of Queen. Almost every time a new king is introduced in 1 and 2 Kings, the king’s mother is mentioned. She was a member of the royal court, wore a crown, sat on a throne, and shared in the king’s reign (2 Kings 24:12, 15; Jer. 13:18–20). She acted as counselor to her son (Prov. 31), an advocate of the people, and as an intercessor for the citizens of the kingdom (1 Kings 2:17–20). Since Jesus is a King based on the order of David, (Lk 1:32-33) it makes sense that His mother would be called Queen.

Psalm 45 depicts Christ as King and at his side is a Queen.

PSALM 45:9
At Your right hand stands the queen in gold from Ophir

So who is this Queen? Scripture puts forth Mary as our Queen in a grandiose description found in Revelation 12. In a vision of heaven, we are shown that the Ark of the Covenant is present in the temple. Rev. 11

"Majestic and Heavenly Maid, Lady, Queen, protect and keep me under your wing lest Satan the sower of destruction glory over me, lest my wicked foe be victorious against me." St. Ephrem the Syrian (4th Century)

"the Queen of mortal man, the most holy Mother of God." Patriarch St. Modestus of Jerusalem (7th Century)

In a sermon about the death of Mary, "Today He transports from her earthly dwelling, as Queen of the human race, His ever-Virgin Mother, from whose womb He, the living God, took on human form." Archbishop St. Andrew of Crete (8th Century)





Mary is the divine treasury! All graces are found in Her! Lk 1:28
Mary has found the favor or grace of salvation lost by Adam!

Mary is the mother of God! Lk 1:43
Not the mother of the divine nature but of the second person of the Trinity who is God!

Mary is the mother of the word, the lamb, and of the savior! The mother of our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jn 1:14 Jn 1:29

 

[Albion]

The holy church with apostolic authority applies it to mary

Okay already. We get that you're a Roman Catholic!

But continuously telling everyone that you believe whatever the RCC teaches isn't saying anything that helps the discussions here.

Doing what you do may be necessary in order to bolster your own faith, but it adds nothing new here and doesn't do the first thing to lend credence to any of the doctrinal views you promote.

 

[Castle Church]

Okay already. We get that you're a Roman Catholic!

But continuously telling everyone that you believe whatever the RCC teaches isn't saying anything that helps the discussions here.

Doing what you do may be necessary in order to bolster your own faith, but it adds nothing new here and doesn't do the first thing to lend credence to any of the doctrinal views you promote.

He is not in communion with the church, as a sedevacantist he has chosen a path that willingly has taken him into schism, ironically.