Mary’s Perpetual Virginity

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Lk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Mary and Joseph already consented to be married without sex

Lk 1:43 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

she knows Joseph but does not have sex
Lk 1:43 pre-supposes a vow of perpetual virginity and a sacrifice made to God

Mary refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God is it means violating her virginity

 

[Josiah]

Lk 1:27

Lk 1:43 34

Lk 1:43

Mark -

AGAIN, yet again, yet another time, you undeniably, powerfully PROVE that you are wrong.

You claim that "Scripture clearly states that Mary remained a virgin all her life." Then go to great lengths - over and over and over and over - to PROVE that's not so, you are wrong, what you claim is false.

Mark. our brother, you need not continue to beat us over the head with this. WE GET IT, we understand, yes.... YES..... you have proved yourself wrong. We understand. We get it. No need to KEEP ON proving it.



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[Faithhopeandcharity]

Mark -

AGAIN, yet again, yet another time, you undeniably, powerfully PROVE that you are wrong.

You claim that "Scripture clearly states that Mary remained a virgin all her life." Then go to great lengths - over and over and over and over - to PROVE that's not so, you are wrong, what you claim is false.

Mark. our brother, you need not continue to beat us over the head with this. WE GET IT, we understand, yes.... YES..... you have proved yourself wrong. We understand. We get it. No need to KEEP ON proving it.



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How do reconcile the fact that Mary consented to marriage yet does not have sex?

 

[Josiah]

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Mary

I wrote and posted this at "the-website-that-shall-not-be-named" 14 years ago. I repost it here and now Mary - the Mother of Our Lord Where Mary is mentioned in Holy Scriptures: Matthew 1:23 Mark 3:31-35; 6:1-6 Luke 1:27, 31-33, 39-55 Luke 2:1-24, 49 John 2:4 John 19:26-27 Acts 1:14...

www.christianityhaven.com

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[Josiah]

How do reconcile the fact that Mary consented to marriage yet does not have sex?

You haven't shown that Mary never had sex. You need to look of "circular reasoning" because it's your "MO"


What you have done - over and over and over and over - is PROVE (with black and white words) that you are WRONG when you claim that Scripture states that Mary never had sex. YOU prove it (sparing others the need to do so).



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[Faithhopeandcharity]

Produce the writings of the Apostles that disagree with the Bible, do it without consulting the Bible, and we'll
be happy to take a look.

Obviously, it means nothing merely to attribute some religious theory or legend to an Apostle or to "the Apostles" generally; and if the Bible's contents are cited in the process, you've supported rather than debunked the concept of Sola Scriptura/Bible Alone.

I don’t have to, you’re belief is our authority is the “Bible alone” all I have to do is show authority in the Bible that refers to something other than the Bible alone

acts 2;42 matt 28:19 matt 16:18-19 & 18:18
and many more

 

[Faith]

Both Matthew and Luke leave no room for doubt on that (Mt 1:18; Lk 1:34–35, 3:23). That virginal motherhood is the guarantor of both Jesus’ divinity and Jesus’ humanity. It safeguards the truth that he was both fully God and fully man!

That doesn’t have anything to do with whether Mary remained a virgin her entire life. The CC teaches that she did, but thus far, I have only seen evidence that she didn’t.

 

[Castle Church]

That doesn’t have anything to do with whether Mary remained a virgin her entire life. The CC teaches that she did, but thus far, I have only seen evidence that she didn’t.

Because there is not any scriptural evidence that she did. There is a Tradition that she did, but that is not what the other member is arguing. He would do better to admit this and argue for Tradition being sacred, but there is no scriptural evidence that she did, on the contrary, the scriptures as read plainly would imply that she did not.

 

[Faith]

most don't. MIGHT Mary have remained a virgin all her life? OF COURSE! But our brother is flat out, undeniably wrong when he insists that the Bible states She did; And HE HIMSELF has chosen to prove this (over and over and over and over).




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I think he is actually a she. No?

edited to add: never mind, I see that he is a male.

 

[Faith]

Why does it or any doctrine have to be in scripture?

what’s the source of truth?
What’s the rule of faith?
What’s the pillar and ground of truth

If it’s not in Scripture, then how can you possibly know it’s true? because your church tells you so?

 

[Faith]

Because there is not any scriptural evidence that she did. There is a Tradition that she did, but that is not what the other member is arguing. He would do better to admit this and argue for Tradition being sacred, but there is no scriptural evidence that she did, on the contrary, the scriptures as read plainly would imply that she did not.

I remember one Christmas Eve when I was Catholic and the priest read Scripture that clearly suggested Mary had given birth to other children. I remember thinking “hmmmmm that goes against what my Church teaches. “ It really bothered me.

 

[Faith]

When I started this thread, I was hoping a Catholic would come here and prove that the teaching Mary remained a virgin her whole life was a fact but He can’t prove it at all.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

You haven't shown that Mary never had sex. You need to look of "circular reasoning" because it's your "MO"


What you have done - over and over and over and over - is PROVE (with black and white words) that you are WRONG when you claim that Scripture states that Mary never had sex. YOU prove it (sparing others the need to do so).



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Verse 27 says she is betrothed or promised to Joseph so they consented to marrige
Yet verse 34 says no sex???

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

That doesn’t have anything to do with whether Mary remained a virgin her entire life. The CC teaches that she did, but thus far, I have only seen evidence that she didn’t.

What evidence?

Isa 7:14 matt 1:21 one child singular

 

[Josiah]

Verse 27 says she is betrothed or promised to Joseph so they consented to marrige
Yet verse 34 says no sex???

You claim that Scripture clearly states that Mary remained a virgin all her life. THAT'S the sole, exclusive issue before us.

You have beaten us over the head - over and over and over - with Scriptures that prove it states no such thing. I've gone to considerable lengths to prove yourself wrong, to shoot yourself in the foot. I'm not sure why you do that but that's your choice. If "verse 34" states that Mary had no sex EVER, that she was a PERPETUAL virgin, then quote the verse (you might want to highlight the word "perpetual" or "always"). If not, then we just have more of the same... YOU (oddly) documenting ... yet again.... that you are wrong, your claim is false, the Bible states no such thing;.


Brother, you've PROVEN your point: You are wrong. Your claim is false. Scripture does NOT state that She remained a virgin. You've proven this - over and over and over and over and over again. PLEASE stop beating us over the head with this! We understand! We get it! No one arguing that with you (your proof is indisputable).




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[Faithhopeandcharity]

If it’s not in Scripture, then how can you possibly know it’s true? because your church tells you so?

Only be church jn 10:16 founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18-19 and the apostles Matt 18:18 and their successors Matt 23 acts 1
Humility and obedience are the virtues most forgotten and ignored, many who claim the name of Christ are not practicing His virtues

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Truth is revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles) Jude 1:3 then proposed by the church! Matt 28:19 gal 3:23

Christ and His church are one!

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

Dan 2:44 Isa 2:2 Micah 4:1 fulfilled in matt 5:14

matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Matt 18:17 hear the truth from the church
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth.

Faith ascents & never protests or rebels!
Spiritual Pride protests & is always in rebellion

The nature of spiritual pride is rebellion!
Spiritual pride must protest, and must be right!

Christ and His one true church cannot be right or my self-righteous personal interpretation base on spiritual pride and private judgement must be wrong, and that is unacceptable!

Truth must be revealed by God, and taught by the church, proposed for our belief, we must be instructed!
Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 Lk 10:16 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42


Nature of doctrine:

Truth or doctrine MUST be Revealed by God And Proposed by the church for belief, not spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
Claim: “scripture alone”
It’s really just the ugly repugnant pride!
It’s no faith at all only spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
They Hope in creatures not in God!

It is unlawful to refuse to accept a truth revealed by God!

Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truth matters! It is revealed by God and therefore CANNOT be changed!
The church likewise is founded by Christ and therefore CANNOT be reformed!

Faith hope and charity! 1 cor 13:13
Three are eternal, and the greatest is charity!
“Faith alone”? Never faith, hope, & charity are inseparable!
If salvation was by faith alone then the greatest would be faith, but as even “all faith“ without charity avails nothing! 1 cor 13:2

 

[Josiah]

Isa 7:14 matt 1:21 one child singular

1. It doesn't say "ONLY one child"

2. Neither say anything about anyone being a "perpetual" anything.

3. Recall your high school biology: It IS possible to have sex but no children.... Until you can prove from biology that EVERY single act of marital intimacies results in a child mentioned in the Bible, your point is moot (and silly). The issue here is NOT whether Mary had other children, the point is your claim that She NEVER had sex and that "Scripture clearly states" that.



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[Faithhopeandcharity]

You claim that Scripture clearly states that Mary remained a virgin all her life. THAT'S the sole, exclusive issue before us.

You have beaten us over the head - over and over and over - with Scriptures that prove it states no such thing. I've gone to considerable lengths to prove yourself wrong, to shoot yourself in the foot. I'm not sure why you do that but that's your choice. If "verse 34" states that Mary had no sex EVER, that she was a PERPETUAL virgin, then quote the verse (you might want to highlight the word "perpetual" or "always"). If not, then we just have more of the same... YOU (oddly) documenting ... yet again.... that you are wrong, your claim is false, the Bible states no such thing;.


Brother, you've PROVEN your point: You are wrong. Your claim is false. Scripture does NOT state that She remained a virgin. You've proven this - over and over and over and over and over again. PLEASE stop beating us over the head with this! We understand! We get it! No one arguing that with you (your proof is indisputable).




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Highlight the word bible or trinity or rapture?

I never asked you to read my post or to respond

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

1. It doesn't say "ONLY one child"

2. Neither say anything about anyone being a "perpetual" anything.

3. Recall your high school biology: It IS possible to have sex but no children.... Until you can prove from biology that EVERY single act of marital intimacies results in a child mentioned in the Bible, your point is moot (and silly). The issue here is NOT whether Mary had other children, the point is your claim that She NEVER had sex and that "Scripture clearly states" that.



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Both are true no other biological child and no sex
Isa 7:14
Lk 1:34
And there is always Matt 16:18-19 and Matt 18:18 bound in heaven
Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649) with the jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles in holy council!

 

[Josiah]

Isa 7:14
Lk 1:34
Matt 16:18-19 and Matt 18:18

YES!!! WE GET IT!!!! Scripture nowhere states that Mary remained a virgin (and now that you've added another point, it never says She had only one child).

YES! How many times must you prove yourself wrong?
YES! How many times must you prove your claim false?

YES! Stop beating us to death with your proof that you are wrong! We get it! We understand! You've proved it - over and over and over and 0ver and over and over and over.




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