In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

[Andrew]

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[NathanH83]

Exactly!
They do not find it logical for records that foretell accurate future events having been written prior to the event so they will date the prophetic text to after the time the events took place.

Note this video at 51:10 minutes in..
They guy says "long story short Daniel was written in the 2nd century BC and used older 4th 5th 6th century text to make up the first 6 chapters"

That’s so dishonest of these “experts” -if we can even call them that.

 

[Andrew]

That’s so dishonest of these “experts” -if we can even call them that.

Read the Wikipedia article on the book of Daniel, they won't even entertain the possibility that the book of Daniel was written when the book says it was. According to wikipedia, Daniel is just another mythical figure because during the hellenistic era, pagan philosophers were obsessed with the end of the world, thus the book of Daniel must have been the product of hellenistic-judao 'apocalyptic-creative-fiction' literature.

 

[NathanH83]

Read the Wikipedia article on the book of Daniel, they won't even entertain the possibility that the book of Daniel was written when the book says it was. According to wikipedia, Daniel is just another mythical figure because during the hellenistic era, pagan philosophers were obsessed with the end of the world, thus the book of Daniel must have been the product of hellenistic-judao 'apocalyptic-creative-fiction' literature.

Daniel sounds apocryphal.

RIP IT OUT!

 

[Lamb]

My argument was against Wisdom's time being written, not Daniel. So how did it turn into that by you guys?

 

[NathanH83]

My argument was against Wisdom's time being written, not Daniel. So how did it turn into that by you guys?

The point we’re making is that you can’t trust these “experts”

 

[Lamb]

The point we’re making is that you can’t trust these “experts”

So we should listen to you?

 

[NathanH83]

So we should listen to you?

Why do you trust their date for Wisdom but you don’t trust their date for Daniel?
Think.

 

[Lamb]

There is no sure date of when Wisdom was actually written and it's possible that it was written after Christ died.

"The Wisdom of Solomon is a text that does not appear in Protestant Bibles, though it is part of the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic canons. Written sometime between the late first century B.C. and the early first century A.D.1—perhaps as early as 27 B.C. or as late as 41 A.D."

Apocrypha Now! The Wisdom of Solomon in the Age of Ultron — Conciliar Post

Ancient texts are not irrelevant to today’s debates for the plain fact that they are ancient. Rather, ancient texts prove that today’s debates recapitulate eternal questions of the human condition. Last week I had the pleasure of reading The Wisdom of Solomon and viewing Avengers: Age of Ultron...

conciliarpost.com

Why do you trust their date for Wisdom but you don’t trust their date for Daniel?
Think.

Look again at what I said, I even quoted it above for you.

 

[Andrew]

Look again at what I said, I even quoted it above for you.

Again, the article refers to a dating that only ONE guy has ever proposed.. whos name is David Winston, he argues that because of the obvious references to the biblical crucifixion of Jesus then the book had to have been written AFTER 33 AD.

The author of the article is using the dating of a man who does not believe in prophecies and who's goal is to debunk them.

He uses the same technique of those (atheists) who made it an official fact on Wikipedia that the book of Daniel was written sometime after the events of the Maccabees.

So when you say that it is unknown when the book of Wisdom was produced just remember that the scholarly consensus dates Daniel to "sometime in the 2nd century BC".

You asked for Apocryphal sources that point to Jesus and I give you one, but if some small article made you believe that my source is dated after Jesus then do a quick google search on "When was the book of Daniel written?" and see if the results have you reject the prophecies in Daniel too!

because it shouldn't! And that's the point Nathan and I are trying to express to you!

 

[Lamb]

Again, the article refers to a dating that only ONE guy has ever proposed.. whos name is David Winston, he argues that because of the obvious references to the biblical crucifixion of Jesus then the book had to have been written AFTER 33 AD.

The author of the article is using the dating of a man who does not believe in prophecies and who's goal is to debunk them.

He uses the same technique of those (atheists) who made it an official fact on Wikipedia that the book of Daniel was written sometime after the events of the Maccabees.

So when you say that it is unknown when the book of Wisdom was produced just remember that the scholarly consensus dates Daniel to "sometime in the 2nd century BC".

You asked for Apocryphal sources that point to Jesus and I give you one, but if some small article made you believe that my source is dated after Jesus then do a quick google search on "When was the book of Daniel written?" and see if the results have you reject the prophecies in Daniel too!

because it shouldn't! And that's the point Nathan and I are trying to express to you!

You gave one example after all this time which means there are no other examples that point to Jesus as Savior and that example is still questionable. I never said I believed one way or another about the dates, I just question it and I have that right.

 

[NathanH83]

Look again at what I said, I even quoted it above for you.

So you don’t trust their date for Wisdom then. Ok. Why bring it up if you don’t trust them?

 

[Andrew]

You gave one example after all this time which means there are no other examples that point to Jesus as Savior and that example is still questionable. I never said I believed one way or another about the dates, I just question it and I have that right.

I believe I gave several examples

 

[Lamb]

So you don’t trust their date for Wisdom then. Ok. Why bring it up if you don’t trust them?

Andrew brought it up as his example.

I believe I gave several examples

Several examples pointing to Jesus as Savior? Or examples of things that could just be about Jesus? Do you see what I'm getting at?

 

[Andrew]

Andrew brought it up as his example.



Several examples pointing to Jesus as Savior? Or examples of things that could just be about Jesus? Do you see what I'm getting at?

This is our God, and there shall none other be accounted of in comparison of him. He has found out all the way of knowledge, and has given it to Jacob his servant, and to Israel his beloved. Afterward did he show himself upon earth, and conversed with men.
3:35 Baruch

 

[NathanH83]

Andrew brought it up as his example.



Several examples pointing to Jesus as Savior? Or examples of things that could just be about Jesus? Do you see what I'm getting at?

How does Proverbs point to Christ? How does Ecclesiastes?

Could it be that the Wisdom of Solomon is exactly what it claims to be? Wisdom that Solomon had? Proverbs has lots of good wisdom in it. It doesn’t all necessarily point to Christ. Why do you hold the book of Wisdom to a different or higher standard than Proverbs or Ecclesiastes? Isn’t that a double standard?

Oh, because the Jews say it doesn’t belong. Right. Just believe whatever the Jews say. That’s what it comes down to ultimately. Believe everything the present-day, Christ rejecting Jews say, and pay no attention to the early church who were in direct contact with the Jewish disciples who actually believed in Jesus.

 

[Andrew]

Several examples pointing to Jesus as Savior? Or examples of things that could just be about Jesus? Do you see what I'm getting at?

Post #4 points to Jesua as savior of souls and Messiah

 

[Lamb]

Post #4 points to Jesua as savior of souls and Messiah

Book of Wisdom again? Any other apocryphal books point to Jesus as Savior?

 

[Josiah]

Let's say every book listed in Article 6 of the 39 Articles of the singular Anglican Church (the "Bible" Nathan says is genuine - no other and no less books), let's say every one of them can be documented to have been written on July 17, 38 AD (by our calendar), would that be PROOF that ergo those exact books (and only those books) may be read and may be put in tomes with "BIBLE" written on the cover imitation gold letters? And what if some other book, say "Julius goes to the circus" was also written on that date, would it ERGO be such Scripture and Anglicans ripped it out of the Bible?

If not, then I fail to see the point of "it's just GOTTA be inerrant, inspired, fully canonical, inscripturated words of God since it was written in year "x."



.

 

[Andrew]

Book of Wisdom again? Any other apocryphal books point to Jesus as Savior?

Esdras