Chariot of Fire

[Faith]

Why would you believe any other documents over the bible?

Because the other documents have been studied and studied by experts in science.

 

[Lamb]

Because the other documents have been studied and studied by experts in science.

Is God an expert?

 

[Josiah]

I’m going to see my pastor on Thursday about all of this,

... and how did that go?


.

 

[Faith]

... and how did that go?


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Haven’t had my appointment yet. It’s this Thursday.

 

[Faith]

Is God an expert?

Yes, but IMO, God gave us people (highly intelligent people) who can sort this stuff out and can understand, and interpret the information.

 

[Lamb]

Yes, but IMO, God gave us people (highly intelligent people) who can sort this stuff out and can understand, and interpret the information.

And so He did when He gave us the Bible. I wouldn't hold other documents above that thinking that it holds more truth than God's Word.

 

[Josiah]

Yes, but IMO, God gave us people (highly intelligent people) who can sort this stuff out and can understand, and interpret the information.

1. With all due respect.... as one with a Ph.D. in Physics.... I entirely lack your faith in science.

2. With all due respect, I consider people (most of all, me) to be incredibly stupid... with puny, fallen brains... no match for God. And I recall the verse, "My thoughts are not your thoughts, My ways not your ways."

3. I agree that WE (that's all 2.2 billion Christians currently alive along with billions now in heaven) can INTERPRET God's written word. I don't think we can deny or replace it. And I DO think we puny, stupid people sometimes IMPOSE our perspectives, assumptions and worldviews upon His Word (I've already posted at length to you about this and how it impacts science and the Bible), but again, "interpretation" of His word is permitted.... denying it isn't.

4. I again convey that I think you are confusing what many LCMS think with what you as an LCMS member must think. They aren't the same thing. At Confirmation, you indicate you agree with Luther's Small Catechism, not with every resolution of every meeting of the LCMS or with every opinion of every LCMS member.




.

 

[Faith]

1. With all due respect.... as one with a Ph.D. in Physics.... I entirely lack your faith in science.

2. With all due respect, I consider people (most of all, me) to be incredibly stupid... with puny, fallen brains... no match for God. And I recall the verse, "My thoughts are not your thoughts, My ways not your ways."

3. I agree that WE (that's all 2.2 billion Christians currently alive along with billions now in heaven) can INTERPRET God's written word. I don't think we can deny or replace it. And I DO think we puny, stupid people sometimes IMPOSE our perspectives, assumptions and worldviews upon His Word (I've already posted at length to you about this and how it impacts science and the Bible), but again, "interpretation" of His word is permitted.... denying it isn't.

4. I again convey that I think you are confusing what many LCMS think with what you as an LCMS member must think. They aren't the same thing. At Confirmation, you indicate you agree with Luther's Small Catechism, not with every resolution of every meeting of the LCMS or with every opinion of every LCMS member.




.

Thanks Josiah!

 

[Faith]

Yes, but IMO, God gave us people (highly intelligent people) who can sort this stuff out and can understand, and interpret the information.

Im not including myself as a “highly intelligent“ person. Just wanted to make that clear.

 

[Lamb]

Yes, but IMO, God gave us people (highly intelligent people) who can sort this stuff out and can understand, and interpret the information.

And Satan uses people to twist what God has said to turn them away from God. Which is why it's safer to stick with the Bible than other types of documents from so-called "experts".

 

[Faith]

My meeting with my Lutheran pastor went really well. He’s so easy to talk to. I hope he doesn’t leave our church, which is a possibility in the semi- near future.
We talked about science, what I believe, what he believes, God and how He created all this from nothing and how He can do anything. Stuff like that.
We talked about how it felt returning to my former Catholic Church, but we never talked about my leaving this church. I think it was obvious by my attitude toward my CC that I don’t want to go back there.
He didn’t try talking me into staying, but I guess he didn’t have to because it was obvious I wasn’t happy there.
He was very respectful of the CC I went to and said that he believes they’ll go to heaven too, just like the Lutheran attendees.

 

[tango]

Because the implication is he and his fiery chariot were taken to heaven in a whirlwind.

Given the context of the passage I don't see any such implication.

 

[Faith]

Given the context of the passage I don't see any such implication.

Good. Perhaps I’m wrong.

 

[Josiah]

We talked about science, what I believe, what he believes, God and how He created all this from nothing and how He can do anything. Stuff like that.

I hope that went well.... I hope you realized that a layperson holding to certain science theories is not bounds for excommunication and indeed does not impact membership at all.

If you are ever confirmed (as a Lutheran) you will be asked if you agree with Luther's Small Catechism, not that you agree with every resolution of LCMS Conventions or CTCR reports or opinions of all past and current LCMS presidents.... not even if you are a Republican and love brats. In the LCMS, there are beloved members who HATE brats and vote for Democrats!! Yes!!



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[tango]

Good. Perhaps I’m wrong.

Why did you see that implication?

Elisha wanted a double portion of Elijah's anointing. Elijah said he could have it, as long as he didn't take his eyes off his master before his master was taken from him (excuse the slightly clunky language there, multiple references to "he" and "him" could have been confusing!).

Then came a few cases where it looks as if Elijah tried to distract Elisha, as if Elisha were being tested to make sure he was serious about keeping his eyes on his master. Finally when the time for Elijah to be taken up into heaven occurred the fiery chariot appeared. If anything would have distracted someone from keeping their eyes on their master that would have done it, and a lesser man than Elisha might well have failed that final test. But Elisha didn't fail the test - the chariot failed to distract him and he saw his master taken to heaven in the whirlwind. What happens to the fiery chariot afterwards is something we can only speculate - the text doesn't record it being taken up in the whirlwind but neither does it say what happened to it.

The crucial aspect is that the chariot was a distraction. Today I think we can still learn a lot from this example - it's very easy to take our eyes off Jesus because we're chasing something that looks impressive, even if it is packaged as something "churchy". I can't help thinking of a lot of the "signs and wonders" movements within the sillier fringes of the charismatic church where men are exalted for having a "signs and wonders ministry". Sometimes I wonder if higher profile Christians having their human credentials listed are similarly missing the point. It's all well and good that Pastor Joe Blow is a best-selling author but I don't recall the man who was God in human form listing his credentials in very many places.

 

[Faith]

I hope that went well.... I hope you realized that a layperson holding to certain science theories is not bounds for excommunication and indeed does not impact membership at all.

If you are ever confirmed (as a Lutheran) you will be asked if you agree with Luther's Small Catechism, not that you agree with every resolution of LCMS Conventions or CTCR reports or opinions of all past and current LCMS presidents.... not even if you are a Republican and love brats. In the LCMS, there are beloved members who HATE brats and vote for Democrats!! Yes!!



.

Yes, it went very well. I am a little worried that he’s going to take a pastoral job in another state. We should know for sure one way or another, soon.

What is CTCR?

 

[Faith]

Why did you see that implication?

Elisha wanted a double portion of Elijah's anointing. Elijah said he could have it, as long as he didn't take his eyes off his master before his master was taken from him (excuse the slightly clunky language there, multiple references to "he" and "him" could have been confusing!).

Then came a few cases where it looks as if Elijah tried to distract Elisha, as if Elisha were being tested to make sure he was serious about keeping his eyes on his master. Finally when the time for Elijah to be taken up into heaven occurred the fiery chariot appeared. If anything would have distracted someone from keeping their eyes on their master that would have done it, and a lesser man than Elisha might well have failed that final test. But Elisha didn't fail the test - the chariot failed to distract him and he saw his master taken to heaven in the whirlwind. What happens to the fiery chariot afterwards is something we can only speculate - the text doesn't record it being taken up in the whirlwind but neither does it say what happened to it.

The crucial aspect is that the chariot was a distraction. Today I think we can still learn a lot from this example - it's very easy to take our eyes off Jesus because we're chasing something that looks impressive, even if it is packaged as something "churchy". I can't help thinking of a lot of the "signs and wonders" movements within the sillier fringes of the charismatic church where men are exalted for having a "signs and wonders ministry". Sometimes I wonder if higher profile Christians having their human credentials listed are similarly missing the point. It's all well and good that Pastor Joe Blow is a best-selling author but I don't recall the man who was God in human form listing his credentials in very many places.

I just read it that way. I think lots of people do.

 

[Faith]

What is CTCR?

 

[Faith]

I hope that went well.... I hope you realized that a layperson holding to certain science theories is not bounds for excommunication and indeed does not impact membership at all.

If you are ever confirmed (as a Lutheran) you will be asked if you agree with Luther's Small Catechism, not that you agree with every resolution of LCMS Conventions or CTCR reports or opinions of all past and current LCMS presidents.... not even if you are a Republican and love brats. In the LCMS, there are beloved members who HATE brats and vote for Democrats!! Yes!!



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One time, before the election that Trump won, I was still Catholic and our priest spent the entire homily talking about the election and said or implied that if we dont vote pro-life, a.k.a. Trump, we were going to hell.


And I don’t even think Trump was always pro life, not until he started thinking about running for president. According to an article I read, when asked if he’d ever been involved with anyone who had an abortion, back in his wild bachelor days. He never answered the question.

 

[tango]

One time, before the election that Trump won, I was still Catholic and our priest spent the entire homily talking about the election and said or implied that if we dont vote pro-life, a.k.a. Trump, we were going to hell.


And I don’t even think Trump was always pro life, not until he started thinking about running for president. According to an article I read, when asked if he’d ever been involved with anyone who had an abortion, back in his wild bachelor days. He never answered the question.

It really annoys me when people preach overtly political messages, even if they are taking a stance I'd be minded to agree with. The one and only time in my life that I walked out of church during the sermon was for that precise reason. It was in the runup to the 2012 election between Romney and Obama and the preacher took several cheap jabs at one of the candidates. Since they were a guest preacher I was looking forward to a different perspective on things but lasted less than five minutes before saying to my wife "this is cr*p" and walking out. The candidate the preacher was mocking wasn't the candidate I'd have supported (I was visiting the US, so I don't get a vote anyway) but if I want a political discussion I'll go to the bar - if I sit through a sermon I want a theological message.