Is Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday.

[Albion]

Acts 20:7 says nothing about the get together for the purpose of celebrating the resurrection. It simply isn't there.

Yes, it is there, but I'm not completely surprised that people who have already been taken in by the defective arguments of others...will stand by the mistake.

Look, I'm not saying that the Jerusalem community didn't celebrate the 1st day of the week in recognition of the resurrection. I'm simply pointing out that scripture can't be used for proof of such a practice.

It wouldn't have to be in Scripture, I agree, but we have it there; and, in addition, ordinary history establishes the Sunday observance--and the reason for it--from the early days of the church virtually continuously thru to the coming of the Adventists and a few other sects in recent times. This was not even an issue during the Reformation, despite all the doctrinal wrangling that we know occurred then.

 

[rstrats]

Yes, it is there...

Where? Please identify where Acts 20:7 says that the disciples came together to celebrate the resurrection.

It wouldn't have to be in Scripture...

I didn't say that it does. I'm simply saying that scripture doesn't have anything to say about it. I think there are some who think that it does.

 

[Albion]

I didn't say that it does. I'm simply saying that scripture doesn't have anything to say about it. I think there are some who think that it does.

They made Sunday their day, called it the Lord's Day, and celebrated the Lord's Supper for no particular reason???? Hmmm.

 

[rstrats]

They made Sunday their day, called it the Lord's Day, and celebrated the Lord's Supper for no particular reason???? Hmmm.

I'm not saying that they didn't. I'm sure they did have their reasons.

I'm merely asking to be shown from scripture where there was mention of a first day of the week meeting for the purpose of celebrating the resurrection.

 

[Albion]

I'm not saying that they didn't. I'm sure they did have their reasons.

that being the day that Our Lord rose from the dead.

I'm merely asking to be shown from scripture where there was mention of a first day of the week meeting for the purpose of celebrating the resurrection.

What you were saying was that Scripture doesn't tell us anything about Sunday worship. But it does. In addition, though, you made the point that the Resurrection of Christ on that day may not be the reason. History and historians think it was, and we have the testimony of early church leaders. Also, Revelation refers to the first day as the day of Our Lord, so I guess I'm missing the critical nature of your contention and what should be done about it if your contention were accepted.

 

[rstrats]

Albion,
re: "What you were saying was that Scripture doesn't tell us anything about Sunday worship. "

What I'm saying is that scripture says nothing about gatherings on the first day of the week in observance of the resurrection.
You say that it does. But you have yet to show such scripture.



re: "In addition, though, you made the point that the Resurrection of Christ on that day may not be the reason."

I'm not aware of making that point. What do you have in mind?



re: "Also, Revelation refers to the first day as the day of Our Lord..."

Again, I don't see where Revelation says that.



re: "...so I guess I'm missing the critical nature of your contention and what should be done about it if your contention were accepted."

My contention is that if folks want to support the idea of meeting on the first day of the week in honor of the resurrection that they should use sources other than scripture for their support since scripture doesn't provide it.

 

[Albion]

Albion,
re: "What you were saying was that Scripture doesn't tell us anything about Sunday worship. "

What I'm saying is that scripture says nothing about gatherings on the first day of the week in observance of the resurrection.
You say that it does. But you have yet to show such scripture.

That is your problem. We know what we believe and are not the ones raising this issue.

You can correct your mistake in no more time than it would take me to prove your argument wrong by copying and pasting material, most of which has already been presented here--only to have you then reply that it doesn't say what it does. You've already been given evidence, including Bible passages, and then you simply changed your contention. This has happened several times already, so I know that's most likely what would happen again.

But you could find the "proof" for yourself in ten minutes if you wanted to do a simple search and were not wedded to a theory that has found favor with almost no one for the past 2000 years, not just with us here. That fact alone should give you reason to rethink.

 

[hedrick]

There are two Reformed positions on the sabbath. I think the most common is that the Lord‘s Day (Sunday) is now the Sabbath. But there’s also a view that worship on a specific day was part of the ceremonial law, and doesn’t apply to us. Our worship is free.

There is NT evidence for Christians worshipping on both the Sabbath and a separate Lord’s Day, though I suspect the Sabbath worship was due to continuing participation in Judaism. What I don’t think there is any evidence of is Sunday being called the Sabbath. Thus I support the second view.

 

[rstrats]

Albion,
re: "You can correct your mistake..."

By mistake, I assume you are referring to what you think my comment was in post #68 where I wrote that it just seems odd that scripture is silent with regard to anyone observing the 1st day of the week in honor of the resurrection.


re: "...in no more time than it would take me to prove your argument wrong by copying and pasting material..."

How can I prove that something isn't there? You're the one that made the assertion that Christians worship on the first day of the week because of the resurrection occurring on that day. I'm simply asking you to backup that assertion with scripture. Just provide the book, chapter and verse which says that. No need to copy and paste anything else.


re: "You've already been given evidence, including Bible passages..."

But none of those passages show that the first day of the week was being observed in honor of the recognition of the resurrection.


re: "...and then you simply changed your contention. This has happened several times already..."

You said that Christians worship on the first day of the week because of the resurrection occurring on that day. The only contention that I've made which is relevant to my reason for posting on this topic was my comment that there is no scripture which says that anyone met on the first day of the week in observance of the resurrection.

 

[Albion]

Albion,

re: "...in no more time than it would take me to prove your argument wrong by copying and pasting material..."

How can I prove that something isn't there?

You cannot. By now you are aware that I believe it to BE THERE. That's why I also said you could easily find it.

But because you won't even check to see which of these opinions is correct, the debate cannot move beyond the "He said, She said" level. .

You're the one that made the assertion that Christians worship on the first day of the week because of the resurrection occurring on that day. I'm simply asking you to backup that assertion with scripture. Just provide the book, chapter and verse which says that. No need to copy and paste anything else.


re: "You've already been given evidence, including Bible passages..."

But none of those passages show that the first day of the week was being observed in honor of the recognition of the resurrection.

If the exact wording you demand is a requirement for your acceptance of a Bible truth, this one we're discussing would not be the only Christian teaching that would have to be jettisoned. Quite a few others that you probably do accept would have to 'go' as well.

re: "...and then you simply changed your contention. This has happened several times already..."

Yes, that is true. If you read back through the posts you can see that you modified, sometimes ever so slightly but nevertheless significantly, what you had contended for previously.

 

[rstrats]

You cannot. By now you are aware that I believe it to BE THERE. That's why I also said you could easily find it.

But because you won't even check to see which of these opinions is correct, the debate cannot move beyond the "He said, She said" level. .

If the exact wording you demand is a requirement for your acceptance of a Bible truth, this one we're discussing would not be the only Christian teaching that would have to be jettisoned. Quite a few others that you probably do accept would have to 'go' as well.

Yes, that is true. If you read back through the posts you can see that you modified, sometimes ever so slightly but nevertheless significantly, what you had contended for previously.

 

[rstrats]

You cannot. By now you are aware that I believe it to BE THERE. That's why I also said you could easily find it.

But because you won't even check to see which of these opinions is correct, the debate cannot move beyond the "He said, She said" level. .

I have read and reread each of your post's comments/opinions and see nothing in them which provides scripture saying that anyone observed the first day of the week in recognition of the resurrection.

If the exact wording you demand is a requirement for your acceptance of a Bible truth...

But none of your wording even implies that anyone mentioned in scripture was celebrating on the first day of the week in recognition of the resurrection.

In your post #8 you wrote:
"We Christians worship on Sunday, however, because that is the day on which the Lord rose from the grave. All of this is verified by Bible verses." (my emphasis)

I took that to mean that your were saying that scripture attests to the celebration on the first day of the week in honor of the resurrection. I asked if you might support that assertion with the scripture which says that. So far no such scripture has been forthcoming.

 

[Albion]

I have read and reread each of your post's comments/opinions and see nothing in them which provides scripture saying that anyone observed the first day of the week in recognition of the resurrection.

What that reply says is that you are determined not to accept what the Bible says on this point. It cannot be that you were unable to find the New Testament's proof texts and/or any commentary about them.

That being the case, there is no point in further banter of the "he said, she said" variety. I made this point earlier. If it were otherwise, you would be showing us some reason for you not believing the NT's information.

 

[rstrats]

That being the case, there is no point in further banter of the "he said, she said" variety. I made this point earlier. If it were otherwise, you would be showing us some reason for you not believing the NT's information.

Again, I still see nothing in the the NT's information which shows that the first day of the week was being celebrated in honor of the resurrection.

 

[Albion]

Again, I still see nothing in the the NT's information which shows that the first day of the week was being celebrated in honor of the resurrection.

Hundreds of millions of other people, almost every Christian denomination, and many centuries of Christian history have had the opposite experience.

So why exactly is it that you find yourself thinking there's nothing in Scripture which points to Sunday as being the day that's indicated?? I'm sure we here would like to know.

 

[rstrats]

So why exactly is it that you find yourself thinking there's nothing in Scripture which points to Sunday as being the day that's indicated?? I'm sure we here would like to know.

How can I show you something that I can't find as being there? Again, you're the one that made the assertion that Christians worship on the first day of the week because of the resurrection occurring on that day. I'm simply asking you to backup that assertion with scripture. So far I haven't seen any.

 

[Albion]

How can I show you something that I can't find as being there?

If you say so, but I know of course that you are merely denying the verses that you know very well are the proof texts that are almost always cited by people being asked this question. That's why I know that you have simply decided not to believe those parts of the New Testament.

If that were not the case, you would long ago have pointed out that, in your personal opinion, the verses in question don't actually mean what they seem to mean...and why you think that's the case. Instead, you've taken the time to write to us four or five times now to say that you don't see anything there.

 

[rstrats]

Albion,
re: "If you say so..."

No if about it - I do say so.


re: "... you are merely denying the verses that you know very well are the proof texts that are almost always cited by people being asked this question."

Give me a couple of verse references - just the book, chapter and verse - and I'll tell you why I don't see how they have to be saying what you think they are saying.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If the Sabbath was abolished, there would be many verses and much text to show it, yet there is none. The apostles would have had many discussions and the councils at Jerusalem would have written at least one with a determination of it being abolished and yet there is nothing. Paul exhorts in Corinthians that Circumcision is nothing in comparison to the Ten Commandments.Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the Commandments of God. 1 Corinthians 7:19. Since there are more than forty verses and up to ten verses at a time clearly stating that Circumcision of the flesh is a yoke of bondage and abolished, how many scriptures would you expect stating the Sabbath was abolished or changed to Sunday? Yet there is not even one verse that says,The Sabbath is abolished or is now Sunday. Here are articles from a interesting source with first a overview:

"Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Roman Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday
Over one hundred years ago the Catholic Mirror ran a series of articles discussing the right of the Protestant churches to worship on Sunday. The articles stressed that unless one was willing to accept the authority of the Catholic Church to designate the day of worship, the Christian should observe Saturday.

Why Do Protestants Keep Sunday?
In 1893, the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists adopted certain resolutions appealing to the government and people of the United States from the decision of the Supreme Court declaring this to be a Christian nation, and from the action of Congress in legislating upon the subject of religion, and remonstrating against the principle and all the consequences of the same. In March 1893, the International Religious Liberty Association printed these resolutions in a tract entitled Appeal and Remonstrance. On receipt of one of these, the editor of the Catholic Mirror of Baltimore, Maryland, published a series of four editorials, which appeared in that paper September, 2, 9, 16, and 23, 1893. The Catholic Mirror was the official organ of Cardinal Gibbons and the Vatican in the United States. These articles, therefore, although not written by the Cardinal's own hand, appeared under his official sanction, and as the expression of the Church to Protestantism, and the demand of the Church that Protestants shall render to the Church an account of why they keep Sunday and also of how they keep it.

When North Americans are doing the Sabbath It is Sunday for me, so can I do the Sabbath on Sunday? I'd be matching the North Americans and all.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Hobie,

The Sabbath is Saturday. We Christians worship on Sunday, however, because that is the day on which the Lord rose from the grave. All of this is verified by Bible verses. The end.

God be with you!

;-)
you know it will not end there. It never does. Of course you can end it there as far as your typing effort goes. The SDA chap probably will not, if he/she returns.