Not by works?

[NathanH83]

“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.”
-Romans 3:28

When Paul said that salvation is by faith in Christ and not by works, this is what he is talking about. The works OF THE LAW.

 

[Lamb]

“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.”
-Romans 3:28

When Paul said that salvation is by faith in Christ and not by works, this is what he is talking about. The works OF THE LAW.

The Law is God's Holy Law. So works are anything we do to obtain salvation. We are all saved in the same way, "by grace through faith" and that faith is in Jesus and His act of salvation on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins.

 

[NathanH83]

The Law is God's Holy Law. So works are anything we do to obtain salvation. We are all saved in the same way, "by grace through faith" and that faith is in Jesus and His act of salvation on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
James 2:21,24 - Bible Gateway passage: James 2:21, James 2:24 - New King James Version

 

[Lamb]

You might want to check out this old thread:

Justification: By OUR works or CHRIST'S works?

. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoRx5eB7h0A View this 4 minute video, directed specifically to the LDS but equally applying to all who think justification (narrow) is up to us (in whole or in part) The LDS view (do your BEST and God will then overlook the rest) is actually the Muslim...

christianityhaven.com

 

[Pedrito]

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James 2:14:
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James 2:17:
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:20-24:
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

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I suspect it might behoove us to not overlook (dare I say ignore?) any portion of God’s Holy Word to us.

Did not Paul state (2 Timothy 3:15-17) :
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

That was stated of what we call the Old Testament. The New Testament didn’t even exist then.

But how much more should we take notice of God’s admonitions to us in what we now call the New Testament?

It shouldn’t be, but to some people it would seem to be, amazing how simply and automatically the unfettered study of the Bible unveils “solutions” to imagined “problems”.

In this case, simply put: The works ((the visible outworking)) prove the validity of the claimed faith.

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[NathanH83]

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James 2:14:
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James 2:17:
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:20-24:
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

===================================================================================

I suspect it might behoove us to not overlook (dare I say ignore?) any portion of God’s Holy Word to us.

Did not Paul state (2 Timothy 3:15-17) :
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

That was stated of what we call the Old Testament. The New Testament didn’t even exist then.

But how much more should we take notice of God’s admonitions to us in what we now call the New Testament?

It shouldn’t be, but to some people it would seem to be, amazing how simply and automatically the unfettered study of the Bible unveils “solutions” to imagined “problems”.

In this case, simply put: The works ((the visible outworking)) prove the validity of the claimed faith.

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Dude, seriously? It’s all yellow. I can’t even read it.

 

[Pedrito]

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I’m dylsexic. NathanH83 appears to be blolor cind.

(This is attempted humour. Not flaming. Just in case anyone is tempted to misinterpret it for whatever reason.)

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[Lamb]

Works follow faith.

 

[Stephen]

“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.”
-Romans 3:28

When Paul said that salvation is by faith in Christ and not by works, this is what he is talking about. The works OF THE LAW.

By works of the Law Paul means the Jewish Law. He uses the same phrase in Rom 3:20
For no human being will be justified in his sight by works of the law, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

If we look back at Rom 2:25 he writes Circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law; but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision.
And in Gal 3:10
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them."
Clearly by law he is referring to the Jewish law.
Also by referring to "works of the law" he implies there are works that are not works of the law.

Paul explains why we cannot rely on "works of the law".
“Now to one who works, his wages are not reckoned as a gift but as his due.” (Rom 4:4)
Works done under the law are those done under some sort of legal contract (the Mosaic Covenant) that try to put an obligation on God – to make salvation our due. We try to earn our salvation

If we work, as for an employer, expecting wages as our due then we will be judged under that Law and will always be found wanting and will be condemned.

That is why we can only receive salvation as a gift. It cannot be earned.
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

 

[Stephen]

Works follow faith.

Works can precede faith. Believing is a work - mental work.

 

[Lamb]

Works can precede faith. Believing is a work - mental work.

You can't "believe" in the Savior without having faith given to you by God first. You might know there was a guy named Jesus who existed, but that's not believing in Him as your Savior.

Works by unbelievers are not acceptable to God.

 

[Stephen]

You can't "believe" in the Savior without having faith given to you by God first. You might know there was a guy named Jesus who existed, but that's not believing in Him as your Savior.

Works by unbelievers are not acceptable to God.

Are you suggesting that people who have not heard of Jesus and had no chance of even hearing of Jesus are condemned to hell?

For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (Rom 2:13-16)

He also says prior to that "....but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality." (vs 10-11)

 

[Lamb]

Are you suggesting that people who have not heard of Jesus and had no chance of even hearing of Jesus are condemned to hell?

For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (Rom 2:13-16)

He also says prior to that "....but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality." (vs 10-11)

Scriptures have told us that salvation is "by grace through faith". Apart from that we can only trust that God's judgment is Holy and good.

 

[Stephen]

Scriptures have told us that salvation is "by grace through faith". Apart from that we can only trust that God's judgment is Holy and good.

But not by faith alone.

 

[Lamb]

But not by faith alone.

Since God has not told us otherwise, that's what we go by. Right?

 

[NathanH83]

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I’m dylsexic. NathanH83 appears to be blolor cind.

(This is attempted humour. Not flaming. Just in case anyone is tempted to misinterpret it for whatever reason.)

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No offense taken.

Seriously though, the yellow blends in with the white background.

 

[Stephen]

Since God has not told us otherwise, that's what we go by. Right?

Right. We go by what Scripture says.
It doesn't say we are saved by faith alone. So we can't make that assumption.
On the other hand God (Jesus) has told us "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)
So do we go by that Scripture or find some way of annulling it?

 

[Lamb]

Right. We go by what Scripture says.
It doesn't say we are saved by faith alone. So we can't make that assumption.
On the other hand God (Jesus) has told us "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)
So do we go by that Scripture or find some way of annulling it?

We can't believe without having faith first given to us by God....and Baptism is God's work. So yeah, still faith alone.

 

[Stephen]

We can't believe without having faith first given to us by God....and Baptism is God's work. So yeah, still faith alone.

So you are happy that Baptism is not a work as many claim.
Excellent. I'll remember you said that.

 

[Lamb]

So you are happy that Baptism is not a work as many claim.
Excellent. I'll remember you said that.

Baptism is God's work in us. It's not something I can do to myself. The language is passive "be baptized" meaning something is happening to us.