What year was it when Protestants first started to remove books from the Holy Bible?

[NathanH83]

Yes. There's a reason you don't quote the verse you reference because if people read it, they realize you are not telling the truth You simply don't care what the Bible states, only what you think.... and so you post what you think and (foolishly) give a reference to show the Bible doesn't agree with you. Your dishonesty and your disrespect for Scripture is stunning. It's a game you play and its tiring. Just GAMES.



Here's what the verse states:

"At the time of the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter"

Underline all the words you insist are stated in the text:
"Jesus went to Jerusalem in order to celebrate the Feast" Just underline where those words appear.
"Jesus participated the Feast" Just underline those words.
"Jesus preached about the Feast in the Temple" Just underline those words.
"Jesus stated that Second Maccabees is canonical Scripture" Just underline those words.

AH.... there's a reason you never quote the verses you reference, because if you actually quoted it, we'd all see you aren't telling the truth.


WHAT IT STATES is that it was a certain TIME. It was the time of the Feast of Dedication. It was winter. That's what it states.
It states NOTHING about His reason for going to Jerusalem....
It states NOTHING about His celebrating anything...
It states NOTHING about His attending anything....
It states NOTHING about His affirming that all Christianity had officially/formally declared Second Maccabees as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God.

It says, it was winter. It says it was the time of the Feast of Dedication.
It states NONE of the things you claim it states.
Which I suspect is why you don't quote the verses you reference, you realize we can read and thus will know you are wrong.

As we read on, people do engage Him in conversation (nothing about Jesus preaching).... and NONE of it, NOT A WORD of it has anything whatsoever to do with any Feast or any book or anything being declared by all Christianity to be canonical Scripture.

Try respecting Scripture. Try being honest.




And again, SO WHAT?

Let's assume with you that the Holy Spirit completely blew it, inspiring the wrong words, and the verse SHOULD have been, "So Jesus made sure He was in Jerusalem because He insisted on celebrating Hanukkah there. He attended the festival and preached inside the Temple all about Hanukkah." Let's pretend that's what the Holy Spirit MEANT to inspire in John 10:22 (and you omehow know that) but the Holy Spirit just goofed. SO WHAT? How does that prove that therefore all Christianity had officially, formally in its Ruling Body declared all the books Nathan means by Apocrypha to be The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inspired words of God?" How would the corrected verse substantiate that? Pray tell. Even if the Bible is wrong in that verse and states what you insists it should state (but clearly, undeniably does NOT)?

Even IF the text stated "Jesus attended the Festival and celebrated it, preaching about it in the Temple" (which the Bible NEVER REMOTELY STATES) that does not mean ERGO some book that mentions that festival ERGO had been declared by all Christianity as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God. I celebrate the Fourth of July, that doens't make any of the thousands of books that speak of what happened on July 4, 1776 to THEREFORE having been declared by all Christianity as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God. I have a friend who is HINDU (NOT Christian) and he (and his family) celebrate Christmas and attend Christmas events, does that prove ERGO Hinduism in some official declaration of its Ruling Body declared the Books of Matthew and Luke as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God? Of course not! Even if the verse states what you claim it SHOULD state, it has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Christianity officially declaring Second Maccabees in its Ruling Body to be canonical Scripture. We all know that.




- Josiah




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More word games. Not interested. Go away.

 

[Andrew]

Nice opinions.... but what about the claim that John 10:22 STATES that?

And brother, opinions substantiate NOTHING. Opinions validate NOTHING. Opinions are unrelated to truth. And just because you or Joseph Smith or Martin Luther or Jim Jones has an OPINION does not mean Scripture states that, Scripture says that. What self theorizes is NOT the same as what God says.






The claim is that John 10:22 states Jesus attended the Festival. It does not. Read the words. Respect them. Respect God.

One could say with some credibility that Jesus was PRESENT at the time, but that does not equal attending and participating in something. I could be in Baghdad during Ramadan.... that would not prove I therefore ATTENDED and participated and celebrated Romadan. Read the words. Respect the words. What you theorize is NOT therefore what God states. Sorry, no disrespect intended.

Friend, read the words. It indicates a time (winter, the feast) but it states nothing about Jesus attending or celebrating anything at all. Come on! Let's be honest and truthful. Let us respect God.



And again I ask, SO WHAT? Let's pretend that John 10:22 states what you and Nathan have insisted it STATES. "So Jesus went up to Jerusalem for the reason that he wanted to celebrate the Feast of Dedication there, and he attended all the events and celebrated the Feast and preached all about it in the Temple." Let's pretend that's what the Holy Spirit MEANT to write but goofed - and somehow you and Nathan are two who know that. Okay. Let's run with that. SO WHAT? How does that prove that ergo all CHRISTIANITY... at some binding, authoritative meeting of all Christianity... officially/formally declared that some mysterious, undefined collection of books Nathan calls "apocrypha" was declared there to be The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God? And if you can show that John 10;22 proves this, give us the date and place (what Nathan keeps demanding) for this... and show us how you two brothers submit to all such meetings. Otherwise, so what?



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ALL books were then "mysterious" as there was NO canon ever settled of ANY scripture until the unbelieving Jews decided to make a canon for the first time AFTER Christianity had already began to spread.

Should I provide more testimony of early Christians clearly naming the so called "apocrypha" books HOLY SCRIPTURE or will you just roll your eye at them and deny them?

They literally state over and over again that they are scripture.

 

[NathanH83]

Nathan,


Try READING. You know, WORDS. Be honest, be truthful, be respectful.


I NOWHERE said it was not winter or the time of the Feast. I said the text does NOT state Jesus made sure to go to Jerusalem at that time. I was responding to the claim that the verse states His motivation for going, it states that His reason for going was specifically to celebrate the Feast. That was a declaration made in a post, I simply noted the truth - NOWHERE does the Bible remotely state the reason for His going to Jerusalem at that time. John 10:22 does not state what was claimed it does, it does NOT state, "Jesus made sure to go to Jerusalem during the winter and the Feast of Dedication in order to celebrate the Feast." Sorry, but nowhere does it say that. THINK. If I write, "I went to Baghdad and it was Ramadan" that does NOT state, "I went to Baghdad because I wanted to be sure to be there for Ramadan and to celebrate it."




Nathan, perhaps you don't want us to read what the verse actually states, but here it is:

"At that time of the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter"

Try reading the words.
The actual words.
Respect them.

Underline all the words you insist are stated in the text:
"Jesus went to Jerusalem in order to celebrate the Feast" Just underline where those words appear.
"Jesus participated the Feast" Just underline those words.
"Jesus preached about the Feast in the Temple" Just underline those words.
"Jesus stated that Second Maccabees is canonical Scripture" Just underline those words.

IF you do that, I suspect a great epiphany will dawn on you.

AH.... there's a reason you never quote the verses you reference, because if you actually quoted it, we'd all see you aren't telling the truth.


WHAT IT STATES is that it was a certain TIME. It was the time of the Feast of Dedication. It was winter. That's what it states.
It states NOTHING about His reason for going to Jerusalem....
It states NOTHING about His celebrating anything...
It states NOTHING about His attending anything....
It states NOTHING about His affirming that all Christianity had officially/formally declared Second Maccabees as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God.

It says, it was winter. It says it was the time of the Feast of Dedication.
It states NONE of the things you claim it states.
Which I suspect is why you don't quote the verses you reference, you realize we can read and thus will know you are wrong.

As we read on, people do engage Him in conversation (nothing about Jesus preaching).... and NONE of it, NOT A WORD of it has anything whatsoever to do with any Feast or any book or anything being declared by all Christianity to be canonical Scripture.

Try respecting Scripture. Try being honest.




And again, SO WHAT?

Let's assume with you that the Holy Spirit completely blew it, inspiring the wrong words, and the verse SHOULD have been, "So Jesus made sure He was in Jerusalem because He insisted on celebrating Hanukkah there. He attended the festival and preached inside the Temple all about Hanukkah." Let's pretend that's what the Holy Spirit MEANT to inspire in John 10:22 (and you somehow justknow that) but the Holy Spirit just goofed. SO WHAT? How does that prove that therefore all Christianity had officially, formally in its Ruling Body declared all the books you mean by the word "Apocrypha" to be The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inspired words of God?" How would the corrected verse substantiate that? Pray tell. Even if the Bible is wrong in that verse and states what you insists it should state (but clearly, undeniably does NOT)?

Even IF the text stated "Jesus made totally sure to go to Jerusalem during Winter and the Festival because he wanted to celebrate that Feast. He attended all the celebrations of it and He preaching about it in the Temple." EVEN IF that's what you know the Holy Spirit MEANT to say but goofed, HOW, PRAY TELL, HOW that does prove some book that mentions that festival ergo has been declared by all Christianity as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God. I celebrate the Fourth of July, that doens't make any of the thousands of books that speak of what happened on July 4, 1776 to THEREFORE having been declared by all Christianity as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God? I have a friend who is HINDU (NOT Christian) and he (and his family) celebrate Christmas and attend Christmas events, does that prove ERGO Hinduism in some official declaration of its Ruling Body declared the Books of Matthew and Luke as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God? Of course not! Even if the verse states what you claim it SHOULD state, it has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Christianity officially declaring Second Maccabees in its Ruling Body to be canonical Scripture. We all know that.



- Josiah

You don’t know Jesus’ motivation for going to the Feast?
What? Was Jesus just stopping to use the restroom? Was he just there for the food?
Just stopping for gas?

Dude, seriously. Word games. Not interested. Go download an app on your iPhone where you can play word games with people. Stop cluttering up a forum where People want to have serious conversations.

 

[NathanH83]

Another completely irrelevant point which does nothing to address the facts.

The facts are:
John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus celebrated" anything.
John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus attended"anything.
The text NEVER states "Jesus made sure he was in Jerusalem during Hanukkah."

Word games. Go away.

 

[Origen]

I said FEASTS pural

The point is he did not do it at the feast of Dedication at all but before it. One could just as well be linked to the other feast since it happened at that feast and not at the feast of Dedication.

During the feasts Jesus is preaching that He is the LIGHT and that HE is the Temple and the WAY

Jesus does not. Jesus does not claim to be the temple in chapters 8, 9, or 10. In fact Jesus never uses the work "temple" in chapters 8, 9, and 10. Again I say your claim is wildly inaccurate.

 

[Origen]

Word games. Go away.

At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon.

John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus celebrated" anything.
John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus attended"anything.
The text NEVER states "Jesus made sure he was in Jerusalem during Hanukkah."

 

[NathanH83]

Daniel prophesies about it,
Jesus celebrated it,
And the author of Hebrews comments on it.

Oh, but there’s no verification for Maccabees in either the Old or New Testaments! They’re never referenced!!

Lies. All lies.

And the only thing these people have to say in response is word games. That’s pretty sickening justification for ripping books out of God’s Holy Word and throwing them in the trash.

 

[Origen]

Jesus celebrated it

Not according to the text.

At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon.

John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus celebrated" anything.
John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus attended"anything.
The text NEVER states "Jesus made sure he was in Jerusalem during Hanukkah."

 

[Andrew]

Here is John 10:22.

Underline and embolden the words "Jesus preached"
Underline and embolden the words "Jesus attended"
Underline and embolden the words, "Jesus celebrated"

Then tell us.... at long last..... how that proves that at some place and on some date, all CHRISTIANITY officially and authoritatively declared that whoever books Nathan means by "apocrypha" were declared to be The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God... and that you two are docilicly submissive to the authority of all such meetings.



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Nathan and I stand with other Christians of the 1rst, 2nd and 3rd century and so on, we also stand with the inherent quotations of the New Testament, we stand with the prophecy of Jesus in Wisdom Chapter 2, we stand with the alms givings and charity in Tobit, we stand with the 7 angels before the throne first mentioned in Tobit, we stand with OT prophecy and NT references to the Maccabees, we stand with the pre-19th century-bible-society BIBLES which were accepted by all denominations which included the apocrypha section.

 

[Andrew]

The point is he did not do it at the feast of Dedication at all but before it. One could just as well be linked to the other feast since it happened at that feast and not at the feast of Dedication.


Jesus does not. Jesus does not claim to be the temple in chapters 8, 9, or 10. In fact Jesus never uses the work "temple" in chapters 8, 9, and 10. Again I say your claim is wildly inaccurate.

Destroy this Temple and I will raise it up in 3 days? Remember that part?

 

[Andrew]

The point is he did not do it at the feast of Dedication at all but before it. One could just as well be linked to the other feast since it happened at that feast and not at the feast of Dedication..

Again I said pLuRaL feasts, count all the feasts in John and see if Jesus uses the word Temple at any time during these F E A S T S, then show me what you find.

 

[Origen]

Destroy this Temple and I will raise it up in 3 days? Remember that part?

Yes, I do. But obviously you've conveniently forget what you said in post 254.

Let me remind you. You said:

During the feasts Jesus is preaching that He is the LIGHT and that HE is the Temple and the WAY

There is clear as day.

"During the feasts Jesus is preaching that He is the LIGHT and that HE is the Temple and the WAY."

The truth is no where in John 8, 9, or 10 does Jesus even use the word "temple."

 

[Origen]

Again I said pLuRaL feasts, count all the feasts in John

And again I said since it was not during the feast of Dedication at all but before it your connection is lost.

and see if Jesus uses the word Temple during the F E A S T S, then show me what you find.

I have. You are wrong. The truth is no where in John 8, 9, or 10 does Jesus even use the word "temple." Your turn!!!

 

[Josiah]

You don’t know Jesus’ motivation for going to the Feast?

I know what John 10:22 states.

You don't. Well, worse - you CLAIM that John 10:22 states it but you won't quote the verse because you KNOW it does not.

Such dishonesty, such disrespect for God and His Word, such disregard for truth is appalling.

What the Bible states means nothing to you (which is why you don't quote it), only your THEORIES, your SURMISING, your OPINIONS. Which you insist are stated in Scripture via words the Holy Spirit MEANT to say (you alone know) but all who can read words KNOW God did not.

 

[Andrew]

Yes, I do. But obviously you've conveniently forget what you said in post 254.

Let me remind you. You said:

There is clear as day.

"During the feasts Jesus is preaching that He is the LIGHT and that HE is the Temple and the WAY."

The truth is no where in John 8, 9, or 10 does Jesus even use the word "temple."

I'll help you out, after a Jewish wedding feast and just before the feast of passover

 

[Origen]

I'll help you out, after a Jewish wedding feast and just before the feast of passover

lol At first you claimed it took place at the feasts in John 8, 9, and 10. There is no point in being dishonest.

Again this is what you said.

During the feasts Jesus is preaching that He is the LIGHT and that HE is the Temple and the WAY

The truth is no where in John 8, 9, or 10 does Jesus even use the word "temple."

 

[Andrew]

I know what John 10:22 states.

You don't. Well, worse - you CLAIM that John 10:22 states it but you won't quote the verse because you KNOW it does not.

Such dishonesty, such disrespect for God and His Word, such disregard for truth is appalling.

What the Bible states means nothing to you (which is why you don't quote it), only your THEORIES, your SURMISING, your OPINIONS. Which you insist are stated in Scripture via words the Holy Spirit MEANT to say (you alone know) but all who can read words KNOW God did not.

Which verse in the bible includes "by faith alone" and does it mean that we are saved not by works but by faith alone?

So accuse me all you want of dishonesty with the word of God, at least I don't have to draft up 20 pages to present my case..

"Jesus attended and preached at the Temple during the feast of Hanuka and it was winter"
-Andrew of CH commentary on John ch 10, 2021 edition

 

[Andrew]

lol At first you claimed it took place at the feasts in John 8, 9, and 10. There is no point in being dishonest.

Again this is what you said.

The truth is no where in John 8, 9, or 10 does Jesus even use the word "temple."

I claimed what? That he said Temple? Or that he preached? Because he did both...

1. Wedding feast
2. Passover feast
3. Feast of Tabernacles
4. Feast of dedication

Between 1 and 2 he says "Temple", from 2 and on his ministering at the festivals reaches the heart of the Jewish community and elite congregations of high priest rabbis

 

[Josiah]

"Jesus attended and preached at the Temple during the feast of Hanuka and it was winter"
-Andrew of CH commentary on John ch 10, 2021 edition

And thus NOT what you claimed. NOT what the verse states.

And FINALLY, you admit it. This is NOT what the Bible says. How long did it take to bring about that honesty? How many posts from Origin and myself and others did that take? All the times, post after post, when you and Nathan stated "The Bible states" well... you now admit what you have evaded for 14 pages now.... no, it does NOT. Your claim was false. Well, all the claims about this verse were false. Until just now, you never agreed with that, you just kept laying on more and more and more - ever more incredible, ever more false - claims about the verse.

Origin, our brother... with the patience of a saint.... for MANY, MANY pages tried to convey to you what you FINALLY admit but insisted was not the case before. Your claims about what John 10:22 states were all ... well....not so, not truth. They are simply the theorizing of you yourself, your "commentary" 2021 edition.


Now, let's move on: where does the verse (not your personal commentary) how do the words prove that CHRISTIANITY, at a meeting of a certain date and place, authoritatively declare that some unidentified books Nathan calls "apocrypha" are The inerrant, fully canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God?

Let me ask again, yet again, okay... John 10:22 states some things. SO WHAT? John 10:22 says it was winter.... the Feast of Dedication time.... Okay, how does that prove that some books Nathan won't identify are THUS fully canonical, PROCLAIMED so by all Christianity? You brought back the discussion here to that point just a few posts ago with your claim (albeit different than his) but just keep ignoring how John 10:22 proves that all Christians from 33-1550 AD held that some or all of books Nathan won't identify are fully canonical Scriptures - equal to say the Epistle to the Romans? Okay, you admit John 10:22 states NONE of the many things you said it did.... good..... now how does that prove CHRISTIANITY proclaimed some books to be fully canonical?




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[pinacled]

Which verse in the bible includes "by faith alone" and does it mean that we are saved not by works but by faith alone?

So accuse me all you want of dishonesty with the word of God, at least I don't have to draft up 20 pages to present my case..

"Jesus attended and preached at the Temple during the feast of Hanuka and it was winter"
-Andrew of CH commentary on John ch 10, 2021 edition

So you are NathanH83?
If so it is very dishonest to make multiple accounts.