What year was it when Protestants first started to remove books from the Holy Bible?

[Origen]

Exactly. Word game. Go away now. Not interested in your games.

I understand how the actual words found in the text, rather than your imaginary ones, are a problem for you. So I will just quote them again.

At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

 

[eddif]

lol did I say that the bible stated it?

His disciples, concerned for Jesus, suggested he NOT go because they feared that the Jews might kill him, Jesus says "my time has not yet come" (for his persecution) so he journeyed to Jerusalem alone where the festival of lights is celebrated

I am not planning on getting into this discussion. The feast of tabernacles (as an off shoot of your post) actually has people living in Jerusalem in Acts by virtue of the celebration. For a Mississippi gentile this blows my mind.
You do not have to comment.
eddif

 

[Josiah]

Exactly. Word game. Go away now. Not interested in your games.

Yes. There's a reason you don't quote the verse you reference because if people read it, they realize you are not telling the truth You simply don't care what the Bible states, only what you think.... and so you post what you think and (foolishly) give a reference to show the Bible doesn't agree with you. Your dishonesty and your disrespect for Scripture is stunning. It's a game you play and its tiring. Just GAMES.



Here's what the verse states:

"At the time of the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter"

Underline all the words you insist are stated in the text:
"Jesus went to Jerusalem in order to celebrate the Feast" Just underline where those words appear.
"Jesus participated the Feast" Just underline those words.
"Jesus preached about the Feast in the Temple" Just underline those words.
"Jesus stated that Second Maccabees is canonical Scripture" Just underline those words.

AH.... there's a reason you never quote the verses you reference, because if you actually quoted it, we'd all see you aren't telling the truth.


WHAT IT STATES is that it was a certain TIME. It was the time of the Feast of Dedication. It was winter. That's what it states.
It states NOTHING about His reason for going to Jerusalem....
It states NOTHING about His celebrating anything...
It states NOTHING about His attending anything....
It states NOTHING about His affirming that all Christianity had officially/formally declared Second Maccabees as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God.

It says, it was winter. It says it was the time of the Feast of Dedication.
It states NONE of the things you claim it states.
Which I suspect is why you don't quote the verses you reference, you realize we can read and thus will know you are wrong.

As we read on, people do engage Him in conversation (nothing about Jesus preaching).... and NONE of it, NOT A WORD of it has anything whatsoever to do with any Feast or any book or anything being declared by all Christianity to be canonical Scripture.

Try respecting Scripture. Try being honest.




And again, SO WHAT?

Let's assume with you that the Holy Spirit completely blew it, inspiring the wrong words, and the verse SHOULD have been, "So Jesus made sure He was in Jerusalem because He insisted on celebrating Hanukkah there. He attended the festival and preached inside the Temple all about Hanukkah." Let's pretend that's what the Holy Spirit MEANT to inspire in John 10:22 (and you omehow know that) but the Holy Spirit just goofed. SO WHAT? How does that prove that therefore all Christianity had officially, formally in its Ruling Body declared all the books Nathan means by Apocrypha to be The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inspired words of God?" How would the corrected verse substantiate that? Pray tell. Even if the Bible is wrong in that verse and states what you insists it should state (but clearly, undeniably does NOT)?

Even IF the text stated "Jesus attended the Festival and celebrated it, preaching about it in the Temple" (which the Bible NEVER REMOTELY STATES) that does not mean ERGO some book that mentions that festival ERGO had been declared by all Christianity as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God. I celebrate the Fourth of July, that doens't make any of the thousands of books that speak of what happened on July 4, 1776 to THEREFORE having been declared by all Christianity as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God. I have a friend who is HINDU (NOT Christian) and he (and his family) celebrate Christmas and attend Christmas events, does that prove ERGO Hinduism in some official declaration of its Ruling Body declared the Books of Matthew and Luke as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God? Of course not! Even if the verse states what you claim it SHOULD state, it has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Christianity officially declaring Second Maccabees in its Ruling Body to be canonical Scripture. We all know that.




- Josiah




.

 

[Andrew]

And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
John 2:1-9

Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
John 2:23

After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
John 5:1


And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh.
John 6:4

Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast: for my time is not yet full come. When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee. But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he? And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people. Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews. Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned? Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
John 7:8-16

And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
John 10:22-23

Jesus attended, preached and performed miracles at these feasts

 

[Josiah]

What do you mean you can find the word Hanukkah in the text? It’s there.

Nathan,


Try READING. You know, WORDS. Be honest, be truthful, be respectful.


I NOWHERE said it was not winter or the time of the Feast. I said the text does NOT state Jesus made sure to go to Jerusalem at that time. I was responding to the claim that the verse states His motivation for going, it states that His reason for going was specifically to celebrate the Feast. That was a declaration made in a post, I simply noted the truth - NOWHERE does the Bible remotely state the reason for His going to Jerusalem at that time. John 10:22 does not state what was claimed it does, it does NOT state, "Jesus made sure to go to Jerusalem during the winter and the Feast of Dedication in order to celebrate the Feast." Sorry, but nowhere does it say that. THINK. If I write, "I went to Baghdad and it was Ramadan" that does NOT state, "I went to Baghdad because I wanted to be sure to be there for Ramadan and to celebrate it."




Nathan, perhaps you don't want us to read what the verse actually states, but here it is:

"At that time of the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter"

Try reading the words.
The actual words.
Respect them.

Underline all the words you insist are stated in the text:
"Jesus went to Jerusalem in order to celebrate the Feast" Just underline where those words appear.
"Jesus participated the Feast" Just underline those words.
"Jesus preached about the Feast in the Temple" Just underline those words.
"Jesus stated that Second Maccabees is canonical Scripture" Just underline those words.

IF you do that, I suspect a great epiphany will dawn on you.

AH.... there's a reason you never quote the verses you reference, because if you actually quoted it, we'd all see you aren't telling the truth.


WHAT IT STATES is that it was a certain TIME. It was the time of the Feast of Dedication. It was winter. That's what it states.
It states NOTHING about His reason for going to Jerusalem....
It states NOTHING about His celebrating anything...
It states NOTHING about His attending anything....
It states NOTHING about His affirming that all Christianity had officially/formally declared Second Maccabees as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God.

It says, it was winter. It says it was the time of the Feast of Dedication.
It states NONE of the things you claim it states.
Which I suspect is why you don't quote the verses you reference, you realize we can read and thus will know you are wrong.

As we read on, people do engage Him in conversation (nothing about Jesus preaching).... and NONE of it, NOT A WORD of it has anything whatsoever to do with any Feast or any book or anything being declared by all Christianity to be canonical Scripture.

Try respecting Scripture. Try being honest.




And again, SO WHAT?

Let's assume with you that the Holy Spirit completely blew it, inspiring the wrong words, and the verse SHOULD have been, "So Jesus made sure He was in Jerusalem because He insisted on celebrating Hanukkah there. He attended the festival and preached inside the Temple all about Hanukkah." Let's pretend that's what the Holy Spirit MEANT to inspire in John 10:22 (and you somehow justknow that) but the Holy Spirit just goofed. SO WHAT? How does that prove that therefore all Christianity had officially, formally in its Ruling Body declared all the books you mean by the word "Apocrypha" to be The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inspired words of God?" How would the corrected verse substantiate that? Pray tell. Even if the Bible is wrong in that verse and states what you insists it should state (but clearly, undeniably does NOT)?

Even IF the text stated "Jesus made totally sure to go to Jerusalem during Winter and the Festival because he wanted to celebrate that Feast. He attended all the celebrations of it and He preaching about it in the Temple." EVEN IF that's what you know the Holy Spirit MEANT to say but goofed, HOW, PRAY TELL, HOW that does prove some book that mentions that festival ergo has been declared by all Christianity as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God. I celebrate the Fourth of July, that doens't make any of the thousands of books that speak of what happened on July 4, 1776 to THEREFORE having been declared by all Christianity as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God? I have a friend who is HINDU (NOT Christian) and he (and his family) celebrate Christmas and attend Christmas events, does that prove ERGO Hinduism in some official declaration of its Ruling Body declared the Books of Matthew and Luke as The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God? Of course not! Even if the verse states what you claim it SHOULD state, it has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Christianity officially declaring Second Maccabees in its Ruling Body to be canonical Scripture. We all know that.



- Josiah

 

[Origen]

And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
John 2:1-9

Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
John 2:23

After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
John 5:1


And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh.
John 6:4

Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast: for my time is not yet full come. When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee. But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he? And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people. Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews. Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned? Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
John 7:8-16

And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
John 10:22-23

Jesus attended, preached and performed miracles at these feasts

Another completely irrelevant point which does nothing to address the facts.

The facts are:
John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus celebrated" anything.
John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus attended"anything.
The text NEVER states "Jesus made sure he was in Jerusalem during Hanukkah."

 

[Andrew]

Another completely irrelevant point which does nothing to address the facts.

The facts are:
John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus celebrated" anything.
John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus attended"anything.
The text NEVER states "Jesus made sure he was in Jerusalem during Hanukkah."

A celebration doesn't always mean funny hats and confetti, there are free online dictionaries

 

[Origen]

A celebration doesn't always mean funny hats and confetti, there are free online dictionaries

Also the noun "celebration" does not appear anywhere in John 10.

No matter how many dictionaries you reference it will change the facts and those facts are clear.

John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus celebrated" anything.
John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus attended"anything.
The text NEVER states "Jesus made sure he was in Jerusalem during Hanukkah."

 

[Andrew]

Also the noun "celebration" does not appear anywhere in John 10.

No matter how many dictionaries you reference it will change the facts and those facts are clear.

John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus celebrated" anything.
John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus attended"anything.
The text NEVER states "Jesus made sure he was in Jerusalem during Hanukkah."

So the bible just threw in a timestamp using some holiday that has no significance to Jesus because he didn't even attend it and therefore he didn't celebrate it.

 

[Origen]

So the bible just threw in a timestamp

Never said that.

using some holiday that has no significance to Jesus

Never said that.

because he didn't even attend it and therefore he didn't celebrate it.

John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus celebrated" anything.
John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus attended"anything.
The text NEVER states "Jesus made sure he was in Jerusalem during Hanukkah."

 

[Andrew]

Never said that.


Never said that.


John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus celebrated" anything.
John 10:22 NEVER states "Jesus attended"anything.
The text NEVER states "Jesus made sure he was in Jerusalem during Hanukkah."

Ok, it never says that verbatim, I already know that, but in context he DID attend feasts although it does not say "he attended", in context taught at the Temple during these feasts although it doesn't say "preached".

Now regardless of my fault, my mistake, my ignorance in that the verse actually states that Jesus attended the Temple on the day of the feast of dedication (dedication of the Temple) and preached therein among the Jewish community who gathered there (on the day of the feast of dedication), do YOU Origen, believe that Jesus went to Jerusalem to the Temple to Preach during the Jewish feasts even in attendence during the feast of dedication?

He attended the marriage feast, he attended every feast that the book of John mentions he did.

If a church holds communion on Easter in celebration of Christ risen, and you are the priest, did you not attend the celebration?

 

[Josiah]

So the bible just threw in a timestamp using some holiday that has no significance to Jesus because he didn't even attend it and therefore he didn't celebrate it.

Andrew -


Questions substantiate nothing.
Claims need substantiation.

We've been asked to consider John 10:22 as proof that Christianity officially/formally declared some (unnamed) books that Nathan calls "Apocrypha" to be The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God (canonical Scripture). Okay. Here is the verse:


"At that time of the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter"


We've been told the verse states that...
+ Jesus went to Jerusalem specifically to celebrate the Feast of Dedication, THAT was his motivation, THAT was the stated reason.
+ That Jesus participated in this Feast,
+ That He preached at the Feast and about the Feast...
and of course, all this proves that at some specific council of PAN-CHRISTIANITY, that Ruling Body officially declared that those books Nathan calls "Apocrypha" are thus and for all The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God.

But Andrew, is that true? Does the verse state those things?


Our brother Origen has TRIED (with the patience of a saint) to show you two the obvious, the undeniable, what everyone who can read KNOWS.... nope. The claims are false. And rather than acknowledge what is clearly undeniable, the claims not only continue but actually grow ever more incredible. And we remain mystified at how in the world this verse proves that all Christianity officially declared some mysterious group of books to be canonical Scripture? Like all of Nathan's threads, it just keeps getting more and more absurd, more and more off topic, more and more evasive.

My friend, my brother, seriously, I think this is OBVIOUS. And I'm truly, sincerely, with all due respect, bewildered as to why it is not so to you.


WHAT IT STATES is that it was a certain TIME. It was the time of the Feast of Dedication. It was winter. That's what it states.
Honesty, truthfulness IMO acknowledges that.

It says, it was winter. It says it was the time of the Feast of Dedication.
It states NONE of the things you and Nathan claim it states.

As we read on, past the verse you two are so focused on, yes, people do engage Him in conversation (nothing about Jesus preaching).... but NONE of it, NOT A WORD of it , has anything whatsoever to do with any Feast or any book or anything being declared by all Christianity to be canonical Scripture.

I suspect our friend carefully evades quoting any verse because he's smart and realizes that would destroy his claim.... but sincerely, I'm at a complete loss on why you do. It's not at all how you do things.




Now, friend, IF (big word there, LOL)...... IF our friend said, "My personal opinion is that it's likely that Jesus went to Jerusalem at that time in order to celebrate the Feast" well, I'm not sure there would be any response. Okay, that's his theory, his opinion... and it doesn't seem unreasonable, certainly nothing in the text that makes that untenable. But that's not what he said.... not what you said. BECAUSE, opinions validate NOTHING. Opinions are substantiation for NOTHING. An opinion that can coexist with another opinion has NOTHING to do with truth. Just because I have an opinion that life is likely in our solar system (beyond the Earth) has NO RELEVANCE WHATSOEVER to that being truth. There's nothing objective that proves it true, or proves it false - it's an OPINION of one fallible, often stupid dude. AND.... Andrew..... we'd be right back where we always are with the incredible GAMES our friend plays..... after yet another, still another diversions into stuff that has nothing to do with his overarching claim he's made for over a year now in post after post, thread after thread, that this mysterious unnamed collection of writings he calls "apocrypha" was officially declared to be canonical Scripture by some Ruling Body of PAN-CHRISTIANITY that he accepts. It's all just chasing rabbits... just ever more absurd diversions ... ones that just get more false, more silly with time.



A blessed Pentecost to you and yours....


Josiah




.

 

[Origen]

Ok, it never says that verbatim

The text never says it verbatim or in any other way at all, EVER.

do YOU Origen, believe that Jesus went to Jerusalem to the Temple to Preach during the Jewish feasts even in attendence during the feast of dedication?

I follow the text. I believe what the text says. This is what the text clearly states.

At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon.

Does John 10:22 states "Jesus celebrated" anything? No.
Does John 10:22 state "Jesus attended" anything? No.
Does the text states "Jesus made sure he was in Jerusalem during Hanukkah"? No.

 

[Andrew]

Andrew -


Questions substantiate nothing.
Claims need substantiation.

We've been asked to consider John 10:22 as proof that Christianity officially/formally declared some (unnamed) books that Nathan calls "Apocrypha" to be The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God (canonical Scripture). Okay. Here is the verse:


"At that time of the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter"


We've been told the verse states that...
+ Jesus went to Jerusalem specifically to celebrate the Feast of Dedication, THAT was his motivation, THAT was the stated reason.
+ That Jesus participated in this Feast,
+ That He preached at the Feast and about the Feast...
and of course, all this proves that at some specific council of PAN-CHRISTIANITY, that Ruling Body officially declared that those books Nathan calls "Apocrypha" are thus and for all The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God.

But Andrew, is that true? Does the verse state those things?


Our brother Origen has TRIED (with the patience of a saint) to show you two the obvious, the undeniable, what everyone who can read KNOWS.... nope. The claims are false. And rather than acknowledge what is clearly undeniable, the claims not only continue but actually grow ever more incredible. And we remain mystified at how in the world this verse proves that all Christianity officially declared some mysterious group of books to be canonical Scripture? Like all of Nathan's threads, it just keeps getting more and more absurd, more and more off topic, more and more evasive.

My friend, my brother, seriously, I think this is OBVIOUS. And I'm truly, sincerely, with all due respect, bewildered as to why it is not so to you.


WHAT IT STATES is that it was a certain TIME. It was the time of the Feast of Dedication. It was winter. That's what it states.
Honesty, truthfulness IMO acknowledges that.

It says, it was winter. It says it was the time of the Feast of Dedication.
It states NONE of the things you and Nathan claim it states.

As we read on, past the verse you two are so focused on, yes, people do engage Him in conversation (nothing about Jesus preaching).... but NONE of it, NOT A WORD of it , has anything whatsoever to do with any Feast or any book or anything being declared by all Christianity to be canonical Scripture.

I suspect our friend carefully evades quoting any verse because he's smart and realizes that would destroy his claim.... but sincerely, I'm at a complete loss on why you do. It's not at all how you do things.




Now, friend, IF (big word there, LOL)...... IF our friend said, "My personal opinion is that it's likely that Jesus went to Jerusalem at that time in order to celebrate the Feast" well, I'm not sure there would be any response. Okay, that's his theory, his opinion... and it doesn't seem unreasonable, certainly nothing in the text that makes that untenable. But that's not what he said.... not what you said. BECAUSE, opinions validate NOTHING. Opinions are substantiation for NOTHING. An opinion that can coexist with another opinion has NOTHING to do with truth. Just because I have an opinion that life is likely in our solar system (beyond the Earth) has NO RELEVANCE WHATSOEVER to that being truth. There's nothing objective that proves it true, or proves it false - it's an OPINION of one fallible, often stupid dude. AND.... Andrew..... we'd be right back where we always are with the incredible GAMES our friend plays..... after yet another, still another diversions into stuff that has nothing to do with his overarching claim he's made for over a year now in post after post, thread after thread, that this mysterious unnamed collection of writings he calls "apocrypha" was officially declared to be canonical Scripture by some Ruling Body of PAN-CHRISTIANITY that he accepts. It's all just chasing rabbits... just ever more absurd diversions ... ones that just get more false, more silly with time.



A blessed Pentecost to you and yours....


Josiah




.

During the feasts Jesus is preaching that He is the LIGHT and that HE is the Temple and the WAY, the feasts are all celebrations of God showing the Israelites the WAY by HIS LIGHT, this is precisely the reason Jesus went to Temple during the feast of tabernacles and dedication, to preach that He himself is the way to the Father, he did this knowing that they wanted to stone him and kill him

 

[Andrew]

Andrew -


Questions substantiate nothing.
Claims need substantiation.

We've been asked to consider John 10:22 as proof that Christianity officially/formally declared some (unnamed) books that Nathan calls "Apocrypha" to be The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God (canonical Scripture). Okay. Here is the verse:


"At that time of the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter"


We've been told the verse states that...
+ Jesus went to Jerusalem specifically to celebrate the Feast of Dedication, THAT was his motivation, THAT was the stated reason.
+ That Jesus participated in this Feast,
+ That He preached at the Feast and about the Feast...
and of course, all this proves that at some specific council of PAN-CHRISTIANITY, that Ruling Body officially declared that those books Nathan calls "Apocrypha" are thus and for all The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God.

But Andrew, is that true? Does the verse state those things?


Our brother Origen has TRIED (with the patience of a saint) to show you two the obvious, the undeniable, what everyone who can read KNOWS.... nope. The claims are false. And rather than acknowledge what is clearly undeniable, the claims not only continue but actually grow ever more incredible. And we remain mystified at how in the world this verse proves that all Christianity officially declared some mysterious group of books to be canonical Scripture? Like all of Nathan's threads, it just keeps getting more and more absurd, more and more off topic, more and more evasive.

My friend, my brother, seriously, I think this is OBVIOUS. And I'm truly, sincerely, with all due respect, bewildered as to why it is not so to you.


WHAT IT STATES is that it was a certain TIME. It was the time of the Feast of Dedication. It was winter. That's what it states.
Honesty, truthfulness IMO acknowledges that.

It says, it was winter. It says it was the time of the Feast of Dedication.
It states NONE of the things you and Nathan claim it states.

As we read on, past the verse you two are so focused on, yes, people do engage Him in conversation (nothing about Jesus preaching).... but NONE of it, NOT A WORD of it , has anything whatsoever to do with any Feast or any book or anything being declared by all Christianity to be canonical Scripture.

I suspect our friend carefully evades quoting any verse because he's smart and realizes that would destroy his claim.... but sincerely, I'm at a complete loss on why you do. It's not at all how you do things.




Now, friend, IF (big word there, LOL)...... IF our friend said, "My personal opinion is that it's likely that Jesus went to Jerusalem at that time in order to celebrate the Feast" well, I'm not sure there would be any response. Okay, that's his theory, his opinion... and it doesn't seem unreasonable, certainly nothing in the text that makes that untenable. But that's not what he said.... not what you said. BECAUSE, opinions validate NOTHING. Opinions are substantiation for NOTHING. An opinion that can coexist with another opinion has NOTHING to do with truth. Just because I have an opinion that life is likely in our solar system (beyond the Earth) has NO RELEVANCE WHATSOEVER to that being truth. There's nothing objective that proves it true, or proves it false - it's an OPINION of one fallible, often stupid dude. AND.... Andrew..... we'd be right back where we always are with the incredible GAMES our friend plays..... after yet another, still another diversions into stuff that has nothing to do with his overarching claim he's made for over a year now in post after post, thread after thread, that this mysterious unnamed collection of writings he calls "apocrypha" was officially declared to be canonical Scripture by some Ruling Body of PAN-CHRISTIANITY that he accepts. It's all just chasing rabbits... just ever more absurd diversions ... ones that just get more false, more silly with time.



A blessed Pentecost to you and yours....


Josiah




.

Josiah I never claimed it to be merely an attendence of a festival and nothing more, He being The High Priest in the Temple as the Messiah HAD to proclaim the TRUTH in the presence of even those who would later persecute Him

 

[Josiah]

During the feasts Jesus is preaching that He is the LIGHT and that HE is the Temple and the WAY, the feasts are all celebrations of God showing the Israelites the WAY by HIS LIGHT, this is precisely the reason Jesus went to Temple during the feast of tabernacles and dedication, to preach that He himself is the way to the Father

Nice opinions.... but what about the claim that John 10:22 STATES that?

And brother, opinions substantiate NOTHING. Opinions validate NOTHING. Opinions are unrelated to truth. And just because you or Joseph Smith or Martin Luther or Jim Jones has an OPINION does not mean Scripture states that, Scripture says that. What self theorizes is NOT the same as what God says.

Josiah I never claimed it to be merely an attendence of a festival and nothing more,

The claim is that John 10:22 states Jesus attended the Festival. It does not. Read the words. Respect them. Respect God.

One could say with some credibility that Jesus was PRESENT at the time, but that does not equal attending and participating in something. I could be in Baghdad during Ramadan.... that would not prove I therefore ATTENDED and participated and celebrated Romadan. Read the words. Respect the words. What you theorize is NOT therefore what God states. Sorry, no disrespect intended.

Friend, read the words. It indicates a time (winter, the feast) but it states nothing about Jesus attending or celebrating anything at all. Come on! Let's be honest and truthful. Let us respect God.



And again I ask, SO WHAT? Let's pretend that John 10:22 states what you and Nathan have insisted it STATES. "So Jesus went up to Jerusalem for the reason that he wanted to celebrate the Feast of Dedication there, and he attended all the events and celebrated the Feast and preached all about it in the Temple." Let's pretend that's what the Holy Spirit MEANT to write but goofed - and somehow you and Nathan are two who know that. Okay. Let's run with that. SO WHAT? How does that prove that ergo all CHRISTIANITY... at some binding, authoritative meeting of all Christianity... officially/formally declared that some mysterious, undefined collection of books Nathan calls "apocrypha" was declared there to be The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God? And if you can show that John 10;22 proves this, give us the date and place (what Nathan keeps demanding) for this... and show us how you two brothers submit to all such meetings. Otherwise, so what?



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[Origen]

During the feasts Jesus is preaching that He is the LIGHT and that HE is the Temple and the WAY

Your claim is wildly inaccurate.

Jesus talks about being the light of the world in chapters 8 and 9, which precedes the timestamp in John 10:22, placing those those teachings before the event of verse 22.

No where in chapter 10 does Jesus use the word "light."

Also, no where in chapter 10 does Jesus use the word "temple."



The events of verse 22-39 concern the reaction he received after says "I and the Father are one." Jesus was making himself equal with God the Father and he says nothing about the temple or being the light.

Here is the text. Everyone please check for yourselves.


22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” 39 Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.

40 He went away again across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing at first, and there he remained. 41 And many came to him. And they said, “John did no sign, but everything that John said about this man was true.” 42 And many believed in him there.

 

[Andrew]

Your claim is wildly inaccurate.

Jesus talks about being the light of the world in chapters 8 and 9, which precedes the timestamp in John 10:22, placing those those teachings before the event of verse 22.

No where in chapter 10 does Jesus use the word "light."

Also, no where in chapter 10 does Jesus use the word "temple."



The events of verse 22-39 concern the reaction he received after says "I and the Father are one." Jesus was making himself equal with God the Father and he says nothing about the temple or being the light.

Here is the text. Everyone please check for yourselves.


22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” 39 Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.

40 He went away again across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing at first, and there he remained. 41 And many came to him. And they said, “John did no sign, but everything that John said about this man was true.” 42 And many believed in him there.

I said FEASTS plural!!

 

[Andrew]

This is ridiculous, the majority of Christians who has commented on Maccabees up to Luther who later flip flopped, accepted Maccabees as SCRIPTURE

 

[Josiah]

I said FEASTS plural!!

Here is John 10:22.
"At that time of the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter"

Underline and embolden the words "Jesus preached"
Underline and embolden the words "Jesus attended"
Underline and embolden the words, "Jesus celebrated"
Underline and embolden the words, "In order to celebrate"
Truth matters. Honesty matters.


Then tell us.... at long last..... how does John 10:22 prove that at some place and on some date, all CHRISTIANITY officially and authoritatively declared that whoever books Nathan means by "apocrypha" were declared to be The inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God... and that you two are docilicly submissive to the authority of all such meetings.

This is ridiculous, the majority of Christians who has commented on Maccabees up to Luther who later flip flopped, accepted Maccabees as SCRIPTURE

1. Just posting something on the internet doesn't make it true.... or exempt from accountability.


2. Okay, so your point is NOT that Christianity declared ANYTHING but that 51% of all Christians for 1550 years regarded the 4 books of Macabees was NOT proclaimed to be canonical Scripture on some date and in some place at a binding/authoritative meeting of ALL Christianity... but rather it was the OPINION of 50.0001% of Christians that the 4 books with Maccabees in the moniker are the inerrant, canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God. Okay. Interesting. Now, how many Christians lived during those years? Let's be very conservative and say 100,000,000. So show us that 50,000,001 Christians held that those books with Maccabee in the title were the inerrant, fully-canonical, divinely-inscripturated words of God equal in canonicity to say the Epistle to the Romans. Now, listing 5 isn't 50,000,000. I can list BIG NAMES who specifically labeled as "SCRIPTURE" the Epistle of Barnabus, the Shepherd of Hermes, the Didache, and more..... I can show you that for centuries, the Epistle to the Leodiceans appears in many Catholic Bibles.... I can show you names of those who rejected the Revelation of John and Hebrews as Scripture. But your claim is no SOME but MOST. You have the task that's quite hard.


3. Luther's OPINION is that of one man. And he NEVER said that any of the 4 Maccabee books are fully canonical, there's ZERO evidence he ever changed his mind about those 4 books. Luther held to LEVELS of canonicity. At the top were books such as the 4 Gospels and Acts, the 13 letters of Paul, First Peter, First John. Origin and theologians since then spoke of these as "Homologumna" (spoke in favor). Then canonical but less so were books such as Hebrews, 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John, James, Jude, Revelation of John (called "Antilegomena"). All "Scripture" and all "canonical" but not equally so. Early, but Luther and Calvin thought there might be a conflict in justification between Romans and James, and both resolves this as theologians did, by noting one has more canonicity than the other. But there was a third level too.... books with only secondary canonicity, called "DEUTEROcanonical" (secondary, under) in which there was debate as to what belonged there and what did not. Luther in his Translation followed the Catholic custom in Germany (which included one MORE book here than Trent affirmed - his tome had one MORE Deuterocanonical book in it). He did not include the Epistle to the Leodiceans (which appeared in Catholic tomes in Luther's day) because while it appeared in many Catholic Bibles for over 1000 years and he felt most Catholics regarded it as Scripture, he could find nothing from the Catholic Church that so affirmed it, so he left it out. Friend, the idea that ALL Scripture is EQUAL is - I admit - a modern thought, among all Western Christians But this arose only AFTER the Reformation. Yes you an find one quote where Luther refers to a Maccabee book as "Scripture" but your error is to assume he meant it was fully canonical - you can find MANY quotes where he specifically, verbatim says the opposite. He is not "flip flop" you are making a very false assumption, applying a very modern thought to an age when that was not the case.




Now, where does John 10:22 state that one of the 4 Maccabee books was officially and formally declared to be inerrant, FULLY canonical, divinely inscripturated words of God by a meeting of the Ruling Body of ALL Christianity - and that you docilicly submit to all such meetings.




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