Following Prophecy

[Brighten04]

Isn't the position that you appear to hold more "presentism" than any kind of "futurism"?After all the core of the kind of interpretation that is visible in posts advocating the rapture and such is that NOW is the time, NOW is the last days,

I would appreciate it if you do not respond to this thread. Thanks for your respect.

 

[visionary]

Once the negative position has been stated, no further need to hammer it in. For those who are interested in delving into the end times we are in and how they relate to prophecies found in scripture, any input into the matter is much appreciated.

 

[Brighten04]

:focus:

Did anyone have time to watch any of the documentary I posted. It is interesting how archaeology has been discovered to prove the fulfillment of ancient prophecy. The language used in the Bible related to fulfillment is interesting also. We see 'that it might be fulfilled' when prophecy is fulfilled in scripture pointing to certain events. Like this scripture in Matthew.

Matthew 2:15
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

I find it interesting that events happen so that prophecy will be fulfilled. It shows how our Father orchestrates everything so His Word is true.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I would appreciate it if you do not respond to this thread. Thanks for your respect.

I do not think discussion is meant to work that way, one cannot simply shut out members of the forum whose views may differ from your own. And I am no "preterist" nor am I a "futurist" I am inclined to see prophecy as both fulfilled and not yet fulfilled depending on its content and references. As for a "rapture" at some future date accompanied by some sort of tribulation and the appearance of an antichrist in that order I have grave doubts about that particular kind of speculative theology and I think it is quite helpful for folk to see and hear alternative views rather than attempting to create a consensus out of silencing any other views. Had your thread been created as denomination specific you could expect it to be closed to all who did not share the specific end-times views of whatever denomination(s) teach a pre-tribulation rapture with an antichrist appearing in the middle of it and the final end of this world's systems of things coming approximately seven years after the rapture and a millennium of peace following but this thread is in "Christian Theology" and consequently is open for discussion and debate for all of the forum's christian members (and possibly some of the atheist and/or non-christian members too). Anyway, I do not intend to be silent nor do I intend to create some scheme of prophetic interpretation to rival whatever scheme you follow or have created for yourself. I have been polite in my posts here, no need to try to shut me down as if I were an enemy.

By the way, I did visit JW.org and had a browse through some of the more recent JW publications and it does seem that "current world conditions" and the "troubles in the eastern Mediterranean regions" is a feature that is seen as a portent of the end times in which, Jehovah's witnesses say, we are now living. I wonder how far they will develop that theme and if they will start preaching it when door knocking? Time will tell.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes that is why I asked preterists to abstain from this thread. I wanted it to be for us to study prophecy not to debate it's validity. I had hoped my request would be respected.

I guess that is not going to happen

 

[Brighten04]

I do not think discussion is meant to work that way, one cannot simply shut out members of the forum whose views may differ from your own. And I am no "preterist" nor am I a "futurist" I am inclined to see prophecy as both fulfilled and not yet fulfilled depending on its content and references. As for a "rapture" at some future date accompanied by some sort of tribulation and the appearance of an antichrist in that order I have grave doubts about that particular kind of speculative theology and I think it is quite helpful for folk to see and hear alternative views rather than attempting to create a consensus out of silencing any other views. Had your thread been created as denomination specific you could expect it to be closed to all who did not share the specific end-times views of whatever denomination(s) teach a pre-tribulation rapture with an antichrist appearing in the middle of it and the final end of this world's systems of things coming approximately seven years after the rapture and a millennium of peace following but this thread is in "Christian Theology" and consequently is open for discussion and debate for all of the forum's christian members (and possibly some of the atheist and/or non-christian members too). Anyway, I do not intend to be silent nor do I intend to create some scheme of prophetic interpretation to rival whatever scheme you follow or have created for yourself. I have been polite in my posts here, no need to try to shut me down as if I were an enemy.

And here I was thinking the best that you were an honorable and respectful person who would honor and respect a sincere request, and you are telling me here that you are no such thing.<sigh> . Now I know. I guess it is better to know where a person is coming from rather than to be in the dark thinking the best when it is really the opposite. You know, I am not trying to shut you down. You can easily start a debate thread on prophecy if you want to. Sort of like when Bill started a counter thread to yours last month. But you are telling me that you are going to hijack this thread which is not intended to be a debate thread but one where we can agree on understanding what our Father is telling us in prophecy. All of this contention is not necessary. Would you please start your own Prophecy debate thread? I promise I will leave yours alone and not post there. That way we can show mutual respect for one another. How about it?

 

[MoreCoffee]

And here I was thinking the best that you were an honorable and respectful person who would honor and respect a sincere request, and you are telling me here that you are no such thing.<sigh> . Now I know. I guess it is better to know where a person is coming from rather than to be in the dark thinking the best when it is really the opposite. You know, I am not trying to shut you down. You can easily start a debate thread on prophecy if you want to. Sort of like when Bill started a counter thread to yours last month. But you are telling me that you are going to hijack this thread which is not intended to be a debate thread but one where we can agree on understanding what our Father is telling us in prophecy. All of this contention is not necessary. Would you please start your own Prophecy debate thread? I promise I will leave yours alone and not post there. That way we can show mutual respect for one another. How about it?

That's not what I said but if that's how you want to see things ... I prefer not to reflect in my interlocutor's character.

 

[Brighten04]

That's not what I said but if that's how you want to see things ... I prefer not to reflect in my interlocutor's character.

It is the way I see things. Thank you so much for your consideration and compassion.

 

[Brighten04]

:focus:

Did anyone have time to watch any of the documentary I posted. It is interesting how archaeology has been discovered to prove the fulfillment of ancient prophecy. The language used in the Bible related to fulfillment is interesting also. We see 'that it might be fulfilled' when prophecy is fulfilled in scripture pointing to certain events. Like this scripture in Matthew.

Matthew 2:15
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

I find it interesting that events happen so that prophecy will be fulfilled. It shows how our Father orchestrates everything so His Word is true.

Trying to get the topic going again so I am reposting.

 

[psalms 91]

Exactly and many times the prophecies are not fulfilled for hundreds or thousand sof years later

 

[Brighten04]

You know Jeremiah made the prophecy about the Babylonian captivity and about the return of Israel to the land after seventy years. It almost got him killed. I see the same types of behavior against prophecies today.In another thread, visionary made some very interesting points about signs in the heavens that I never thought about that may be significant to understanding prophecy and how it relates today.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes, Visionary is a treasure and she has valuable insight into Jewish tradition and thought as to how they viewed certain things. The very thing that I have been trying to get people into but they reject it, their loss. I appreciate her posts and I also find yours quite insightful as well. The prophets were usually not accepted by the people but God had a way of showing He was with them.

 

[visionary]

One study leads to another and another and before you know it, a picture starts to form filling gaps not covered elsewhere. I love the study of scripture and as some people say, the study of his other book, the constellations.

 

[Hammster]

You know Jeremiah made the prophecy about the Babylonian captivity and about the return of Israel to the land after seventy years. It almost got him killed. I see the same types of behavior against prophecies today.In another thread, visionary made some very interesting points about signs in the heavens that I never thought about that may be significant to understanding prophecy and how it relates today.

A bit dramatic, don't you think?

 

[Brighten04]

A bit dramatic, don't you think?

Nah! :bigok:

 

[Brighten04]

One study leads to another and another and before you know it, a picture starts to form filling gaps not covered elsewhere. I love the study of scripture and as some people say, the study of his other book, the constellations.

Thanks for your insight.Lord Jesus tells us to look up. Then He tells what to look up for. And then He says when you see. So by that we can deduce that prophecy is observable.

 

[Brighten04]

Recently fulfilled prophecy includes restoration of the Hebrew language. The language ceased to be a spoken language between 200 and 400 AD.

Zeph.3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.

Today it is spoken by approximately 5 million people world wide.

 

[visionary]

Recently fulfilled prophecy includes restoration of the Hebrew language. The language ceased to be a spoken language between 200 and 400 AD.

Zeph.3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.

Today it is spoken by approximately 5 million people world wide.

That is true even for those who are not Jews but want to speak the heavenly language.

 

[Brighten04]

Another thing I noticed about prophecy is sometimes it is not noticed a lot of times before it happens or as it happens. For instance; the wise men saw the star and followed it because they knew the prophecy that I believe was
Numbers 24:17I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.

I think they took prophecy very seriously back then and they were passed from generation to generation. That prophecy was watched for a long time before it's fulfillment. How could it be that the wise men from the East saw the star, and knew what it meant, but the chief priests and scribes either did not see it, or they did see it and did not know what it meant ?

Look at this passage.

Matthew 2 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

See imho this shows that either they did not see it or they saw it but did not understand what it meant. Surely the wise men from the East were not the only one capable of seeing that big light in the sky. And why was all of Jerusalem troubled? Evidently the forgot the prophecy. So, this prompted Herod to inquire.

Matt. 2:4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.

5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,

6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.

We know that it took the wise men about 2 years to travel, so why, if the chief priest saw the star and knew what it meant, why did they not tell Herod when it first showed up? I am asking these questions hoping to get some feedback after you have considered them.

 

[Hammster]

Recently fulfilled prophecy includes restoration of the Hebrew language. The language ceased to be a spoken language between 200 and 400 AD.

Zeph.3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.

Today it is spoken by approximately 5 million people world wide.

I'm not even sure how you can read that as fulfilled prophecy. It's like you read one tiny snippet of a verse and say "Ah HA!!!"