Clearing the Rubble Heap Between Jew and Gentile

[eddif]

32.For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable arehis judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34. For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller?
35.Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36. For of him, and through him, and to him, areall things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

God does not think like us. Full of
Mercy
eddif

 

[eddif]

Scripture clearly states that those who trust Jesus as their Savior will have eternal life. Those who reject him will not have eternal life.

Those Jews who died and still rejected Jesus are not going to heaven.

When Jesus preached to those in captivity (Abraham’s bosom?). Are they going to Heaven if they believed? Are the white robes given by / for the bride groom sufficient testimony of salvation? Pre Jesus Jews heard the gospel from Jesus in the grave.
The rich man and Lazarus shows there is activity in the grave.

eddif

 

[Lamb]

When Jesus preached to those in captivity (Abraham’s bosom?). Are they going to Heaven if they believed? Are the white robes given by / for the bride groom sufficient testimony of salvation? Pre Jesus Jews heard the gospel from Jesus in the grave.
The rich man and Lazarus shows there is activity in the grave.

eddif

Those who trust in Jesus as Savior have eternal life. Those who do not believe do not receive eternal life. That's the answer. There is not after death decision.

The Jews, before Jesus was crucified trusted in the promise of the Savior. After Jesus' death, the ones who did not believe in His death & resurrection for their salvation damn themselves.

 

[Lamb]

I like @atpollard's post here that talks about "abiding".

Who are you gentile?

Were you once separated from God? Do you recognize you are not a natural branch? As a grafted in branch are you humble? Do you need to beware of being broken off yourself? Do you know the Natural Branch. I suppose Romans 3 and Romans 11 are a good place to start. In the first few verses of...

christianityhaven.com

 

[Hezekiah]

Jesus Christ cleared that heap once and for all on the Cross. People who call themselves Jews today follow a form of rabbinic Judaism arguably younger than Christianity ( as Temple Judaism was destroyed when the Temple was in Jerusalem in A.D. 70) . Jesus Christ is the Messiah not only for Israel, but for all the world. To speak bluntly, if they want to get right with God, let them accept their own Messiah and get Baptized and Communed right along with the rest of us in the Holy Christian Church.

 

[pinacled]

Jesus Christ cleared that heap once and for all on the Cross. People who call themselves Jews today follow a form of rabbinic Judaism arguably younger than Christianity ( as Temple Judaism was destroyed when the Temple was in Jerusalem in A.D. 70) . Jesus Christ is the Messiah not only for Israel, but for all the world. To speak bluntly, if they want to get right with God, let them accept their own Messiah and get Baptized and Communed right along with the rest of us in the Holy Christian Church.

The jews need only to accept The Messiah.
Nothing more.
Changing their religion to conform with current christianity's practices would be heretical to say the least.
I agree with your first statement about the clearing.

Ephesians 2:12
[ That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

 

[Lamb]

The jews need only to accept The Messiah.
Nothing more.
Changing their religion to conform with current christianity's practices would be heretical to say the least.
I agree with your first statement about the clearing.

Ephesians 2:12
[ That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

God wants all believers to be baptized and have communion. How is that heretical?

 

[eddif]

5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6.

@eddif wrote: Must we make the other group as the really bad ones?
That's very weak theology.

We are either believers or non-believers. Jews are not automatically believers because they have Jewish heritage. If they reject the Savior they damn themselves...does that make them good?

We may be weak believers or strong believers.
There may be lost people who repent and then believe.
Jews are not automatically believers ( I agree).
Punishment may be needed to bring about a change, or seeing Gentile living off their original root, may help them change.

A beautiful tomato garden, with tomatoes about ready to harvest, may suddenly have cut worms that can destroy the crop. I suppose I see church discipline, abiding, and restoration in Romans chapter 11. Not just one but a wide variety of good ( but sometimes tough love) things going on. What works for one person may not be what another person needs. I also understand overpowering a weak person, and it is tough to do everything at once.
eddif

 

[Lamb]

5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6.

We may be weak believers or strong believers.
There may be lost people who repent and then believe.
Jews are not automatically believers ( I agree).
Punishment may be needed to bring about a change, or seeing Gentile living off their original root, may help them change.

A beautiful tomato garden, with tomatoes about ready to harvest, may suddenly have cut worms that can destroy the crop. I suppose I see church discipline, abiding, and restoration in Romans chapter 11. Not just one but a wide variety of good ( but sometimes tough love) things going on. What works for one person may not be what another person needs. I also understand overpowering a weak person, and it is tough to do everything at once.
eddif

Weak or strong, we either believe or we don't. Those who believe have eternal life with God. Those who don't believe damn themselves.

If today's Jews turn to Jesus in faith that He is their Savior who died on the cross for the forgiveness of their sins then Hallelujah! The same as if a Muslim turned to Jesus in faith. Again, Hallelujah!

I have absolutely no idea how your second paragraph relates?

 

[eddif]

Weak or strong, we either believe or we don't. Those who believe have eternal life with God. Those who don't believe damn themselves.

If today's Jews turn to Jesus in faith that He is their Savior who died on the cross for the forgiveness of their sins then Hallelujah! The same as if a Muslim turned to Jesus in faith. Again, Hallelujah!

I have absolutely no idea how your second paragraph relates?

Romans 1:19 kjv
19. Because that which may be known of God is man
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, evenhis eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
ifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Romans chapter 11 talks about the olive tree, and a branch removed (as discipline). The chapter also talks of restoration as grafting.

I just used a tomato garden instead of an Olive Garden. Instead of breaking the branch off, a cut worm removed the limb. To me the jump was not that far off. A garden abiding wit fruit is attacked by the evil one.

The Bible used a natural cultivated branch as Israel, and a branch from a wild olive tree as Gentiles.

I concede that I do not know if a tomato plant can be grafted, but gene splicing is now possible today.

Parables are symbolic. I use symbolism to parallel knowledge from one area to another.. the Bible uses an ox to relate to a preacher.

Jesus used symbols to hide the realities. I have been trying to explain what olive branches stand for.

eddif

 

[Lamb]

An important thing for Romans 11 is Romans 11:20 But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith.

 

[Origen]

An important thing for Romans 11 is Romans 11:20 But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith.

GREAT POINT @Lämmchen


What's that you say Paul?

"Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham." (Gal. 3:7)

"But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. (Gal 3:25-26)

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise." (Gal 3:28-29)

GOT IT!

Those of faith are children of Abraham.
Because it is through faith that we are in Christ Jesus and therefore children of God.
Consequently things that once divided us, for example ethnicity, social status, and gender, are meaningless because we are all ONE in Christ.
And since we are IN Christ it logically follows that we are Abraham's offspring and heirs just as much as anybody else.

 

[Lamb]

GREAT POINT @Lämmchen


What's that you say Paul?

"Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham." (Gal. 3:7)

"But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. (Gal 3:25-26)

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise." (Gal 3:28-29)

GOT IT!

Those of faith are children of Abraham.
Because it is through faith that we are in Christ Jesus and therefore children of God.
Consequently things that once divided us, for example ethnicity, social status, and gender, are meaningless because we are all ONE in Christ.
And since we are IN Christ it logically follows that we are Abraham's offspring and heirs just as much as anybody else.

I agree!

One other thing is that when a branch gets grafted in, there are no longer two plants but one. Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

[Andrew]

GREAT POINT @Lämmchen


What's that you say Paul?

"Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham." (Gal. 3:7)

"But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. (Gal 3:25-26)

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise." (Gal 3:28-29)

GOT IT!

Those of faith are children of Abraham.
Because it is through faith that we are in Christ Jesus and therefore children of God.
Consequently things that once divided us, for example ethnicity, social status, and gender, are meaningless because we are all ONE in Christ.
And since we are IN Christ it logically follows that we are Abraham's offspring and heirs just as much as anybody else.

Bingo!

Accepting Christ as our King rather than "we have no king but Caeser", their bloodline (unbelieving Jews) is meaningless

 

[Hezekiah]

The jews need only to accept The Messiah.
Nothing more.
Changing their religion to conform with current christianity's practices would be heretical to say the least.
I agree with your first statement about the clearing.

Ephesians 2:12
[ That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Heretical to who? Those who practice an incomplete faith? Frankly, they do need to change their religion if they expect to enter into eternal life. That is scriptural, as well. John 15:5 states it best: 5 I ( Jesus Christ) am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. That means all of us.

As far as current- day Jews being the Chosen People, you would do well to hearken to Revelation 3:9 : Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you.

The Christian Faith is the one, true and eternal Faith, given to us by the Holy Spirit. The Christian Church is the Ark within which everybody must shelter if they seek salvation: 4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. ( Ephesians 4: 4-7).

Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. The Christian Church is the living Body of Christ on Earth, to which we have all been called.

 

[eddif]

Jews today, unless they are messianic or Jews for Jesus are not Christian since they reject the Jesus that died on the cross, saying He is not their Savior.

I am not trying to twist what you are saying.

I have been to what would be called a Messianic Jewish service, and I got you must keep the law of Moses. The circumcisn party admits to Jesus, but says you must also keep the law of Moses (thus putting people into the bondage of the law).
The sign out front does not mean inside there is purity inside the people inside the building or organization.

it is a matter of what is inside the individual, and I think that is what you are saying.

I think some Jewish persons have come to accept Jesus as savior, but the circumcision party (still in existence in 2021), causes them to not affiliate themselves with other Christians (Jew and Gentile alike). Believe in heart and confess with mouth is needed by everyone.

I can shout all day long I am a believer, but not truly belimy heart. (Simon the sorcerer ?).
Or
Deny Jesus like Peter, but need to repent of what came out of my mouth (and I realize Peter had not yet received the Holy Spirit).

I do not want to pick apart every statement made by myself or others.

eddif

 

[Andrew]

I am not trying to twist what you are saying.

I have been to what would be called a Messianic Jewish service, and I got you must keep the law of Moses. The circumcisn party admits to Jesus, but says you must also keep the law of Moses (thus putting people into the bondage of the law).
The sign out front does not mean inside there is purity inside the people inside the building or organization.

it is a matter of what is inside the individual, and I think that is what you are saying.

I think some Jewish persons have come to accept Jesus as savior, but the circumcision party (still in existence in 2021), causes them to not affiliate themselves with other Christians (Jew and Gentile alike). Believe in heart and confess with mouth is needed by everyone.

I can shout all day long I am a believer, but not truly belimy heart. (Simon the sorcerer ?).
Or
Deny Jesus like Peter, but need to repent of what came out of my mouth (and I realize Peter had not yet received the Holy Spirit).

I do not want to pick apart every statement made by myself or others.

eddif

Circumcision party?

After His resurrection, Jesus was no longer a Jewish man, He became the New Adam, the original Adam wasn't even Jewish.. you really have to see the big picture here, there is no longer a distinction between Jews and gentiles IN Christ (Christian), just as there was none in the first creation of Adam (a living soul in His image)

 

[eddif]

As far as current- day Jews being the Chosen People, you would do well to hearken to Revelation 3:9 : Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you.

Romans 11 stands from history into prophetic future. I have no problems seeing the downside of Jewish persons. I have no problem seeing the multi faceted statements of Romans 3, 9 &11. Each person can have a different calling in life.
I am not in any way negating being baptized into the Father, The Son or the Holy Spirit. Jesus will return his things to the Father.
I Corinthians 15:24
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

eddif

 

[eddif]

An important thing for Romans 11 is Romans 11:20 But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith.

Jesus sure gives the disciples fits about their lack of faith. Take me through where their lineage comes from. And I think it is in Romans 11.

eddif

 

[Lamb]

Jesus sure gives the disciples fits about their lack of faith. Take me through where their lineage comes from. And I think it is in Romans 11.

eddif

Jesus points out why they lack faith when something is occurring and do you know what happens next?