JOHN 7:1 JESUS HAD BROTHERS

[atpollard]

... but, of course, “household” means “infants”.

 

[Josiah]

So “married” doesn’t really mean married, and “wife” doesn’t really mean wife and “until” doesn’t really mean until, and “brothers” doesn’t really mean brothers. Got it.

Good. That's critical to realize.

Positions about the Bible are to be based on the ORIGINAL WORDS, not something one feels is implied by some modern English word in some English translation. This is why your pastor doesn't use any translation... this is why he took years of koine Greek and biblical Hebrew in school, why such is required for ordination in most denominations. If it is the modern English that is normative, then all pastors for 2000 years around the world would learn English for Bible study, wouldn't they?


"MARRIED." A c;laim was made that this English word mandates that the relationship has been consummated and there have been born to such children. This isn't even true in English! But I showed that the Bible TWICE (and only twice) calls Mary and Joseph "wife/husband" and in both cases, it's BEFORE Jesus was born. So, if it's true the word "wife" MUST mean "consummated" then Mary not a virgin when Jesus was born. Not only is the claim baseless (even in English) but the claim then denies the Virgin Birth of our Lord.


"UNTIL.'' In 21st Century English, the word USUALLY (but not always) implies that the situation changed. But the verse in the Bible wasn't written in English or in the 21st Century. The koine Greek word does NOT - at all - imply a changed situation.


"BROTHER" Right. In koine Greek, the word RARELY means "have the same parents." I gave biblical examples where it obviously does NOT mean share the same parents. Friend, you and I are brothers. And of course, there was no word for "step-brother" in koine Greek (such was just called "brother") so if these were children of Joseph but not Mary, there would be no other word available in all the Greek language to speak of them. And while there was a word for "cousin" (found also in the Bible) such were usually called "brother." Brother is simply a far broader word in koine Greek than in 21st Century American English, my brother.



Brother... consider.... in the Greek Orthodox Church, they know Greek. They read Greek. They speak Greek. And NEVER in all its history has even one person in the Greek Orthodox Church ever thought that Mary ceased being a virgin or she ever had other children. Is this because Greek speaking people don't know Greek? If the Greek word translated "wife" means "has sex and children" why does not one Greek speaking Greek Orthodox Christian know that? Why don't they all hold that Mary had sex and other children (and thus deny the Virgin Birth) since the word "wife" means "consummated woman with kids"? Don't they know the meaning of this Greek word? Or it doesn't matter because you feel something else is IMPLIED by an ENGLISH word? And if the Greek word for "until" MUST mean "but a 180 happened after that" why don't Greek speaking people know that? Then why for 2000 years has not one Greek speaking person believed the situation changed? Do Greek speaking people not know Greek? Or is all that matters is what you feel is implied by some English word in some English translation?



I'll ask again...

Where is the verse that states, "Mary and Joseph consummated their relationship"?
Where is the verse that states, "Mary had other children"?

You claim the Bible says so.... but you won't say where. Why?

All you can do is delete the Greek.... substitute some modern English word... appoint yourself to declare that you feel is IMPLIED by some the English word... and then based on that, claim something you evidently know the Bible never says and not one Christian for 1800 years believed.



Blessings on your Holy Week observation...


- Josiah




.

 

[pinacled]

So “married” doesn’t really mean married, and “wife” doesn’t really mean wife and “until” doesn’t really mean until, and “brothers” doesn’t really mean brothers. Got it.

Just how sure are we that “forgiven” really means forgiven and “resurrected” really means resurrected?
This Greek language is a lot trickier than I care to trust something this important to.

What you describe is called gaslighting.

 

[atpollard]

I'll ask again...

Where is the verse that states, "Mary and Joseph consummated their relationship"?
Where is the verse that states, "Mary had other children"?

You claim the Bible says so.... but you won't say where. Why?

You were shown where.
You chose to redefine whole conversations into babbling meaningless gibberish to preserve a man made tradition and render the word of God untrustworthy and deceptive.

 

[pinacled]

You were shown where.
You chose to redefine whole conversations into babbling meaningless gibberish to preserve a man made tradition and render the word of God untrustworthy and deceptive.

Multiple witnesses along with scripture given account.
Perpetual virginity of mary dogma is a subtle denial of Yeshua being born of Flesh.
Which is called a heresy by yochanon(john) and ole sh'aul

[“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”]

1 timothy 4

Blessings Always

 

[Stravinsk]

From my perusal of Ebionite related literature, it appears the Ebionites largely rejected the virgin birth, which would present no theological issues with Jesus's having kin. The argument(s) for the differentiation of "brother" (to mean something other than what one would normally think of it as) seems silly to me especially if a normal context is used, as it is in the passages mentioned.

 

[Josiah]

You were shown where.

No, my brother. You did NOT give the reference for these statements, "Mary and Joseph consummated their relationship" and "Mary had other children." You claim the Bible states this but you will not state where. Why?


My brother, positions about the Bible are to be based on the ORIGINAL WORDS, not something one feels is implied by some modern English word in some English translation. This is why your pastor doesn't use any translation... this is why he took years of koine Greek and biblical Hebrew in school, why such is required for ordination in most denominations. If it is the modern English that is normative, then all pastors for 2000 years around the world would learn English for Bible study, wouldn't they?


"MARRIED." A c;laim was made that this English word mandates that the relationship has been consummated and there have been born to such children. This isn't even true in English! But I showed that the Bible TWICE (and only twice) calls Mary and Joseph "wife/husband" and in both cases, it's BEFORE Jesus was born. So, if it's true the word "wife" MUST mean "consummated" then Mary was not a virgin when Jesus was born. Not only is the claim baseless (even in English) but the claim then denies the Virgin Birth of our Lord. The entirely baseless claim that the word "wife" equals "consummated relationship" is simply a denial of the Virgin Birth of Jesus (and likely His divinity).


"UNTIL.'' In 21st Century English, the word USUALLY (but not always) implies that the situation changed. But the verse in the Bible wasn't written in English or in the 21st Century. The koine Greek word does NOT - at all - imply a changed situation.


"BROTHER" Right. In koine Greek, the word RARELY means "have the same parents." I gave biblical examples where it obviously does NOT mean share the same parents. Friend, you and I are brothers. And of course, there was no word for "step-brother" in koine Greek (such was just called "brother") so if these were children of Joseph but not Mary, there would be no other word available in all the Greek language to speak of them. And while there was a word for "cousin" (found also in the Bible) such were usually called "brother." Brother is simply a far broader word in koine Greek than in 21st Century American English, my brother.



Brother... consider.... in the Greek Orthodox Church, they know Greek. They read Greek. They speak Greek. And NEVER in all its history has even one person in the Greek Orthodox Church ever thought that Mary ceased being a virgin or she ever had other children. Is this because Greek speaking people don't know Greek? If the Greek word translated "wife" means "has sex and children" why does not one Greek speaking Greek Orthodox Christian know that? Why don't they all hold that Mary had sex and other children (and thus deny the Virgin Birth) since the word "wife" means "consummated woman with kids"? Don't they know the meaning of this Greek word? Or it doesn't matter because you feel something else is IMPLIED by an ENGLISH word? And if the Greek word for "until" MUST mean "but a 180 happened after that" why don't Greek speaking people know that? Then why for 2000 years has not one Greek speaking person believed the situation changed? Do Greek speaking people not know Greek? Or is all that matters is what you feel is implied by some English word in some English translation?



So, I'll ask again... yet again....

Where is the verse that states, "Mary and Joseph consummated their relationship"?
Where is the verse that states, "Mary had other children"?


All you can do is delete the Greek.... substitute some modern English word... appoint yourself to declare that you feel is possibly IMPLIED (but not stated) by some English word... and then based on that, claim something you evidently know the Bible never says and not one Christian for 1800 years believed.



Blessings on your Holy Week observation...


- Josiah



.

 

[atpollard]

No, my brother. You did NOT give the reference for these statements, "Mary and Joseph consummated their relationship" and "Mary had other children." You claim the Bible states this but you will not state where. Why?


My brother, positions about the Bible are to be based on the ORIGINAL WORDS, not something one feels is implied by some modern English word in some English translation. This is why your pastor doesn't use any translation... this is why he took years of koine Greek and biblical Hebrew in school, why such is required for ordination in most denominations. If it is the modern English that is normative, then all pastors for 2000 years around the world would learn English for Bible study, wouldn't they?


"MARRIED." A c;laim was made that this English word mandates that the relationship has been consummated and there have been born to such children. This isn't even true in English! But I showed that the Bible TWICE (and only twice) calls Mary and Joseph "wife/husband" and in both cases, it's BEFORE Jesus was born. So, if it's true the word "wife" MUST mean "consummated" then Mary was not a virgin when Jesus was born. Not only is the claim baseless (even in English) but the claim then denies the Virgin Birth of our Lord. The entirely baseless claim that the word "wife" equals "consummated relationship" is simply a denial of the Virgin Birth of Jesus (and likely His divinity).


"UNTIL.'' In 21st Century English, the word USUALLY (but not always) implies that the situation changed. But the verse in the Bible wasn't written in English or in the 21st Century. The koine Greek word does NOT - at all - imply a changed situation.


"BROTHER" Right. In koine Greek, the word RARELY means "have the same parents." I gave biblical examples where it obviously does NOT mean share the same parents. Friend, you and I are brothers. And of course, there was no word for "step-brother" in koine Greek (such was just called "brother") so if these were children of Joseph but not Mary, there would be no other word available in all the Greek language to speak of them. And while there was a word for "cousin" (found also in the Bible) such were usually called "brother." Brother is simply a far broader word in koine Greek than in 21st Century American English, my brother.



Brother... consider.... in the Greek Orthodox Church, they know Greek. They read Greek. They speak Greek. And NEVER in all its history has even one person in the Greek Orthodox Church ever thought that Mary ceased being a virgin or she ever had other children. Is this because Greek speaking people don't know Greek? If the Greek word translated "wife" means "has sex and children" why does not one Greek speaking Greek Orthodox Christian know that? Why don't they all hold that Mary had sex and other children (and thus deny the Virgin Birth) since the word "wife" means "consummated woman with kids"? Don't they know the meaning of this Greek word? Or it doesn't matter because you feel something else is IMPLIED by an ENGLISH word? And if the Greek word for "until" MUST mean "but a 180 happened after that" why don't Greek speaking people know that? Then why for 2000 years has not one Greek speaking person believed the situation changed? Do Greek speaking people not know Greek? Or is all that matters is what you feel is implied by some English word in some English translation?



So, I'll ask again... yet again....

Where is the verse that states, "Mary and Joseph consummated their relationship"?
Where is the verse that states, "Mary had other children"?


All you can do is delete the Greek.... substitute some modern English word... appoint yourself to declare that you feel is possibly IMPLIED (but not stated) by some English word... and then based on that, claim something you evidently know the Bible never says and not one Christian for 1800 years believed.



Blessings on your Holy Week observation...


- Josiah



.

Your redefinition of the words results in meaningless drivel from the mouth of God.

 

[atpollard]

[1 Corinthians 7:1-5 NASB] 1 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. 3 The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband [does;] and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife [does.] 5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Was Joseph the husband of Mary?
Was Mary the wife of Joseph?

Not according to you and the RCC.

 

[atpollard]

[Luke 8:19-21 NASB] 19 And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd. 20 And it was reported to Him, "Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, wishing to see You." 21 But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."

• Did Jesus really want all Christians to know that “these who hear the word of God and do it” are His “mother” (the sinless woman that gave birth to him as God incarnate and lived a fake marriage with her roommate Joseph) and His “brothers” (the distant relatives that actually share no biological connection with him, but just have a vague cultural association as family)?
  

So that is the message that God wanted us to take away from that story to preserve a man made myth of perpetual virginity. You have done harm to the message of scripture by redefining words from their plain meaning.

Mother means mother, brother means brother, and wife means wife.

 

[Josiah]

Your efinition of the words results in meaningless drivel from the mouth of God.

No. It's just that the Bible was not given to us in 21st Century American English... nor is it subject to what you personally feel is IMPLIED by modern ENGLISH words but as you indicate, never stated.


What IMO is "drivel" is to delete what God inspired.... substitute instead some word found in some modern English translation... then subject that substituted English word to what one person (you, predictably) feel is IMPLIED by that modern English word... even though you seem to realize the Bible never said what you do and no Christian for 1800 years (including ANY Greek speaking Christian - EVER) theorizes.


My brother, positions about the Bible are to be based on the ORIGINAL WORDS, not something one feels is implied by some modern English word in some English translation. This is why your pastor doesn't use any translation... this is why he took years of koine Greek and biblical Hebrew in school, why such is required for ordination in most denominations. If it is the modern English that is normative, then all pastors for 2000 years around the world would learn English for Bible study, wouldn't they?


"MARRIED." A c;laim was made that this English word mandates that the relationship has been consummated and there have been born to such children. This isn't even true in English! But I showed that the Bible TWICE (and only twice) calls Mary and Joseph "wife/husband" and in both cases, it's BEFORE Jesus was born. So, if it's true the word "wife" MUST mean "consummated" then Mary was not a virgin when Jesus was born. Not only is the claim baseless (even in English) but the claim then denies the Virgin Birth of our Lord. The entirely baseless claim that the word "wife" equals "consummated relationship" is simply a denial of the Virgin Birth of Jesus (and likely His divinity).


"UNTIL.'' In 21st Century English, the word USUALLY (but not always) implies that the situation changed. But the verse in the Bible wasn't written in English or in the 21st Century. The koine Greek word does NOT - at all - imply a changed situation.


"BROTHER" Right. In koine Greek, the word RARELY means "have the same parents." I gave biblical examples where it obviously does NOT mean share the same parents. Friend, you and I are brothers. And of course, there was no word for "step-brother" in koine Greek (such was just called "brother") so if these were children of Joseph but not Mary, there would be no other word available in all the Greek language to speak of them. And while there was a word for "cousin" (found also in the Bible) such were usually called "brother." Brother is simply a far broader word in koine Greek than in 21st Century American English, my brother.



Brother... consider.... in the Greek Orthodox Church, they know Greek. They read Greek. They speak Greek. And NEVER in all its history has even one person in the Greek Orthodox Church ever thought that Mary ceased being a virgin or she ever had other children. Is this because Greek speaking people don't know Greek? If the Greek word translated "wife" means "has sex and children" why does not one Greek speaking Greek Orthodox Christian know that? Why don't they all hold that Mary had sex and other children (and thus deny the Virgin Birth) since the word "wife" means "consummated woman with kids"? Don't they know the meaning of this Greek word? Or it doesn't matter because you feel something else is IMPLIED by an ENGLISH word? And if the Greek word for "until" MUST mean "but a 180 happened after that" why don't Greek speaking people know that? Then why for 2000 years has not one Greek speaking person believed the situation changed? Do Greek speaking people not know Greek? Or is all that matters is what you feel is implied by some English word in some English translation?



So, I'll ask again... yet again....

Where is the verse that states, "Mary and Joseph consummated their relationship"?
Where is the verse that states, "Mary had other children"?


All you can do is delete the Greek.... substitute some modern English word... appoint yourself to declare that you feel is possibly IMPLIED (but not stated) by some English word... and then based on that, claim something you evidently know the Bible never says and not one Christian for 1800 years believed.



Blessings on your Holy Week observation...


- Josiah


.

.

 

[RichWh1]

No. It's just that the Bible was not given to us in 21st Century American English... nor is it subject to what you personally feel is IMPLIED by modern ENGLISH words but as you indicate, never stated.


What IMO is "drivel" is to delete what God inspired.... substitute instead some word found in some modern English translation... then subject that substituted English word to what one person (you, predictably) feel is IMPLIED by that modern English word... even though you seem to realize the Bible never said what you do and no Christian for 1800 years (including ANY Greek speaking Christian - EVER) theorizes.


My brother, positions about the Bible are to be based on the ORIGINAL WORDS, not something one feels is implied by some modern English word in some English translation. This is why your pastor doesn't use any translation... this is why he took years of koine Greek and biblical Hebrew in school, why such is required for ordination in most denominations. If it is the modern English that is normative, then all pastors for 2000 years around the world would learn English for Bible study, wouldn't they?


"MARRIED." A c;laim was made that this English word mandates that the relationship has been consummated and there have been born to such children. This isn't even true in English! But I showed that the Bible TWICE (and only twice) calls Mary and Joseph "wife/husband" and in both cases, it's BEFORE Jesus was born. So, if it's true the word "wife" MUST mean "consummated" then Mary was not a virgin when Jesus was born. Not only is the claim baseless (even in English) but the claim then denies the Virgin Birth of our Lord. The entirely baseless claim that the word "wife" equals "consummated relationship" is simply a denial of the Virgin Birth of Jesus (and likely His divinity).


"UNTIL.'' In 21st Century English, the word USUALLY (but not always) implies that the situation changed. But the verse in the Bible wasn't written in English or in the 21st Century. The koine Greek word does NOT - at all - imply a changed situation.


"BROTHER" Right. In koine Greek, the word RARELY means "have the same parents." I gave biblical examples where it obviously does NOT mean share the same parents. Friend, you and I are brothers. And of course, there was no word for "step-brother" in koine Greek (such was just called "brother") so if these were children of Joseph but not Mary, there would be no other word available in all the Greek language to speak of them. And while there was a word for "cousin" (found also in the Bible) such were usually called "brother." Brother is simply a far broader word in koine Greek than in 21st Century American English, my brother.



Brother... consider.... in the Greek Orthodox Church, they know Greek. They read Greek. They speak Greek. And NEVER in all its history has even one person in the Greek Orthodox Church ever thought that Mary ceased being a virgin or she ever had other children. Is this because Greek speaking people don't know Greek? If the Greek word translated "wife" means "has sex and children" why does not one Greek speaking Greek Orthodox Christian know that? Why don't they all hold that Mary had sex and other children (and thus deny the Virgin Birth) since the word "wife" means "consummated woman with kids"? Don't they know the meaning of this Greek word? Or it doesn't matter because you feel something else is IMPLIED by an ENGLISH word? And if the Greek word for "until" MUST mean "but a 180 happened after that" why don't Greek speaking people know that? Then why for 2000 years has not one Greek speaking person believed the situation changed? Do Greek speaking people not know Greek? Or is all that matters is what you feel is implied by some English word in some English translation?



So, I'll ask again... yet again....

Where is the verse that states, "Mary and Joseph consummated their relationship"?
Where is the verse that states, "Mary had other children"?


All you can do is delete the Greek.... substitute some modern English word... appoint yourself to declare that you feel is possibly IMPLIED (but not stated) by some English word... and then based on that, claim something you evidently know the Bible never says and not one Christian for 1800 years believed.



Blessings on your Holy Week observation...


- Josiah


.

.

Matthew 1!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Josiah]

Matthew 1

Yup. In all of Matthew Chapter One (Indeed, in all the Bible), there is no verse that states. "Mary and Joseph consummated their relationship." Which, since Matthew 1 is about BEFORE Jesus was conceived and born,that would make the Virgin Birth a lie since if "wife" means "has sex and kids" then Mary was no virgin when Jesus was conceived. If the word means that, then the Virgin Birth and indeed the divinity of Jesus are lies.

See Matthew 1:10 where Joseph is called "HUSBAND." Mary was found to be with child (Jesus) in the same time period when Joseph is called "HUSBAND." So.... if "husband" means "consummated relationship where there's sex" then Mary was not a virgin when Jesus was conceived. You can't have it both ways, 1) the words "Husband" and "wife" mandate sex is happening and 2) Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived/incarnated and born. Not without insisting the Bible is lying. The Bible says Joseph was her HUSBAND when Jesus was incarnated... so either "husband" does NOT mean "has sex and kids" OR Mary was not a virgin, the virgin birth is a lie (as is the divinity of Mary).

See Matthew 1:24. Here Mary is called his "WIFE" Now see verse 25 which specifically states she and Joseph had not consummated things. Thus, I ask again, how can the claim be true that the words "HUSBAND" and "WIFE" mandate both have sex an kids? Obviously, unless Matthew is lying, the terms "husband" and "wife" do NOT mean "having sex." Calling each by these terms (and ONLY before Jesus born, never after that), does not prove ergo they have sex and thus must have lotsa children.

Yup, in all of Matthew Chapter One (and indeed in all the Bible), there is no verse that states, "Mary had other children."

Yup, Matthew 1 does not support the claim that using the word "wife" mandates Mary had sex and kids (thus invalidating the Virgin Birth and divinity of our Lord). And nothing that supports that Mary had other children.



See post 311




.

 

[pinacled]

[Luke 8:19-21 NASB] 19 And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd. 20 And it was reported to Him, "Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, wishing to see You." 21 But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."

• Did Jesus really want all Christians to know that “these who hear the word of God and do it” are His “mother” (the sinless woman that gave birth to him as God incarnate and lived a fake marriage with her roommate Joseph) and His “brothers” (the distant relatives that actually share no biological connection with him, but just have a vague cultural association as family)?
  

So that is the message that God wanted us to take away from that story to preserve a man made myth of perpetual virginity. You have done harm to the message of scripture by redefining words from their plain meaning.

Mother means mother, brother means brother, and wife means wife.

Matthew 5:33-34
When a person is bound by oath and creed there is no way to reach them. Especially those that deny Yeshua came in the flesh.
The benefit of communicating the Truth here and now is for the readers.
Stay the course pollard.

Blessings Always

 

[pinacled]

Yup. In all of Matthew Chapter One (Indeed, in all the Bible), there is no verse that states. "Mary and Joseph consummated their relationship." Which, since Matthew 1 is about BEFORE Jesus was conceived and born,that would make the Virgin Birth a lie since if "wife" means "has sex and kids" then Mary was no virgin when Jesus was conceived. If the word means that, then the Virgin Birth and indeed the divinity of Jesus are lies.

See Matthew 1:10 where Joseph is called "HUSBAND." Mary was found to be with child (Jesus) in the same time period when Joseph is called "HUSBAND." So.... if "husband" means "consummated relationship where there's sex" then Mary was not a virgin when Jesus was conceived. You can't have it both ways, 1) the words "Husband" and "wife" mandate sex is happening and 2) Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived/incarnated and born. Not without insisting the Bible is lying. The Bible says Joseph was her HUSBAND when Jesus was incarnated... so either "husband" does NOT mean "has sex and kids" OR Mary was not a virgin, the virgin birth is a lie (as is the divinity of Mary).

See Matthew 1:24. Here Mary is called his "WIFE" Now see verse 25 which specifically states she and Joseph had not consummated things. Thus, I ask again, how can the claim be true that the words "HUSBAND" and "WIFE" mandate both have sex an kids? Obviously, unless Matthew is lying, the terms "husband" and "wife" do NOT mean "having sex." Calling each by these terms (and ONLY before Jesus born, never after that), does not prove ergo they have sex and thus must have lotsa children.

Yup, in all of Matthew Chapter One (and indeed in all the Bible), there is no verse that states, "Mary had other children."

Yup, Matthew 1 does not support the claim that using the word "wife" mandates Mary had sex and kids (thus invalidating the Virgin Birth and divinity of our Lord). And nothing that supports that Mary had other children.



See post 311




.

Do you believe Yeshua(Jesus) came in the flesh?

Yes or No will suffice

[ Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body.]

 

[pinacled]

Yup. In all of Matthew Chapter One (Indeed, in all the Bible), there is no verse that states. "Mary and Joseph consummated their relationship." Which, since Matthew 1 is about BEFORE Jesus was conceived and born,that would make the Virgin Birth a lie since if "wife" means "has sex and kids" then Mary was no virgin when Jesus was conceived. If the word means that, then the Virgin Birth and indeed the divinity of Jesus are lies.

See Matthew 1:10 where Joseph is called "HUSBAND." Mary was found to be with child (Jesus) in the same time period when Joseph is called "HUSBAND." So.... if "husband" means "consummated relationship where there's sex" then Mary was not a virgin when Jesus was conceived. You can't have it both ways, 1) the words "Husband" and "wife" mandate sex is happening and 2) Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived/incarnated and born. Not without insisting the Bible is lying. The Bible says Joseph was her HUSBAND when Jesus was incarnated... so either "husband" does NOT mean "has sex and kids" OR Mary was not a virgin, the virgin birth is a lie (as is the divinity of Mary).

See Matthew 1:24. Here Mary is called his "WIFE" Now see verse 25 which specifically states she and Joseph had not consummated things. Thus, I ask again, how can the claim be true that the words "HUSBAND" and "WIFE" mandate both have sex an kids? Obviously, unless Matthew is lying, the terms "husband" and "wife" do NOT mean "having sex." Calling each by these terms (and ONLY before Jesus born, never after that), does not prove ergo they have sex and thus must have lotsa children.

Yup, in all of Matthew Chapter One (and indeed in all the Bible), there is no verse that states, "Mary had other children."

Yup, Matthew 1 does not support the claim that using the word "wife" mandates Mary had sex and kids (thus invalidating the Virgin Birth and divinity of our Lord). And nothing that supports that Mary had other children.



See post 311




.

14 Bible verses about Too Many Words

A topical Bible which shows the most relevant Bible verse for each topic

bible.knowing-jesus.com

 

[Josiah]

Do you believe Yeshua(Jesus) came in the flesh?

Yes, I accept the divinity of Jesus AND His virgin birth.... which are reasons to reject the absurd claim here that the terms "wife" and "husband" mandate sex. If your claim is true, then the Virgin Birth is a lie and Jesus is not divine.


See Matthew 1:10 where Joseph is called "HUSBAND." Mary was found to be with child (Jesus) in the same time period when Joseph is called "HUSBAND." You can't have it both ways, you can't insist that 1) the words "Husband" and "wife" mandate sex is happening and 2) Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived/incarnated and born. Not without insisting the Bible is lying. The Bible says Joseph was her HUSBAND when Jesus was incarnated... so either "husband" does NOT mean "has sex and kids" OR Mary was not a virgin, the virgin birth is a lie (as is the divinity of Jesus).

See Matthew 1:24. Here Mary is called his "WIFE" Now see verse 25 which specifically states she and Joseph had not consummated things.. So... Mary and Joseph are wife/husband.... and there is no sex. At least according to God in His Word. So, either God is wrong or you are. Being
wife" does NOT mean "has sex."


Where is the verse that states, "Mary had sex."
Where is the verse that states, "Mary had other kids."
You hold the Bible states that, but for some reason, won't quote the verses that state that. Why?

I've never said the BIBLE says the opposite (my position is the Bible is SILENT about both of these point). Universal, ancient TRADITION from at least 110 AD says Mary had neither sex or other kids... a belief of all Christians (including all Greek speaking Christians) until a few radical liberals some 200 years ago invented your odd theory, liberals who rejected the Virgin Birth, rejected the divinity of Our Lord, and who held the Bible lies and much of Christianity is just myth so didn't care that the Bible and Tradition didn't support their position.



Blessings on your Easter observation...


Josiah




.

 

[pinacled]

Yes, I accept the divinity of Jesus AND His virgin birth.... which are reasons to reject the absurd claim here that the terms "wife" and "husband" mandate sex. If your claim is true, then the Virgin Birth is a lie and Jesus is not divine.


See Matthew 1:10 where Joseph is called "HUSBAND." Mary was found to be with child (Jesus) in the same time period when Joseph is called "HUSBAND." You can't have it both ways, you can't insist that 1) the words "Husband" and "wife" mandate sex is happening and 2) Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived/incarnated and born. Not without insisting the Bible is lying. The Bible says Joseph was her HUSBAND when Jesus was incarnated... so either "husband" does NOT mean "has sex and kids" OR Mary was not a virgin, the virgin birth is a lie (as is the divinity of Jesus).

See Matthew 1:24. Here Mary is called his "WIFE" Now see verse 25 which specifically states she and Joseph had not consummated things.. So... Mary and Joseph are wife/husband.... and there is no sex. At least according to God in His Word. So, either God is wrong or you are. Being
wife" does NOT mean "has sex."


Where is the verse that states, "Mary had sex."
Where is the verse that states, "Mary had other kids."
You hold the Bible states that, but for some reason, won't quote the verses that state that. Why?

I've never said the BIBLE says the opposite (my position is the Bible is SILENT about both of these point). Universal, ancient TRADITION from at least 110 AD says Mary had neither sex or other kids... a belief of all Christians (including all Greek speaking Christians) until a few radical liberals some 200 years ago invented your odd theory, liberals who rejected the Virgin Birth, rejected the divinity of Our Lord, and who held the Bible lies and much of Christianity is just myth so didn't care that the Bible and Tradition didn't support their position.



Blessings on your Easter observation...


Josiah




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Virgin birth is a no to "Yeshua came in the flesh".

Did he break/openeth the matrix?
Exodus 13:12
Yes or No will suffice.

 

[Josiah]

Did he break/openeth the matrix?

I have no clue what that means; could you quote the verse with the word "matrix" in it? I note that Exodus 13:12 says no such thing, there is no word "matrix" there. That verse doesn't mention Jesus or His divinity, and it does NOT say "Mary had lotsa kids and lotsa sex." This verse des NOT support your claim that Mary had lotsa sex and kids. Yes, Jesus "opened" the womb of Mary...that does not prove ergo she had lotsa sex and lotsa kids... it does not prove that the word "wife" in koine Greek means "has sex" or that the word for "brother" in koine Greek means (and only means) "shares the same mother." Try to stay on topic.... your persistent need to evade and derail is frustrating, some would claim rude.


But mostly what I note is your diversion, your evasion, your unwillingness to note that the claim that "wife/husband" mandates sex - and thus denies the Virgin Birth and as you note, probably the divinity of Jesus.

What I note is you don't what to affirm the Virgin Birth of Jesus because your claim that "husband/wife" mandates having sex - which means according to Matthew 1, they were having sex when Jesus became incarnate at the Annunciation.

What I note is your diversion, your evasion of the claim that in the Bible, the word "brother" must dogmatically mean "shares the same mother" when I showed you the Bible does not always mean such by that word (in fact, it usually does not).

What I note is your diversion, your evasion of my very simple request... an evasion for pages and pages, weeks and weeks. Your claim that the Bile states that Mary had sex and other children. You claim the Bible states that but won't quote the verses that do. I wonder why?


We can end this VERY easily: Just quote the verses that state" "Mary had sex" and "Mary had other kids." Easy. If the Bible says it.


See post 311 and 317





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[pinacled]

I have no clue what that means; could you quote the verse with the word "matrix" in it? I note that Exodus 13:12 says no such thing, there is no word "matrix" there. That verse doesn't mention Jesus or His divinity, and it does NOT say "Mary had lotsa kids and lotsa sex." This verse des NOT support your claim that Mary had lotsa sex and kids. Yes, Jesus "opened" the womb of Mary...that does not prove ergo she had lotsa sex and lotsa kids... it does not prove that the word "wife" in koine Greek means "has sex" or that the word for "brother" in koine Greek means (and only means) "shares the same mother." Try to stay on topic.... your persistent need to evade and derail is frustrating, some would claim rude.


But mostly what I note is your diversion, your evasion, your unwillingness to note that the claim that "wife/husband" mandates sex - and thus denies the Virgin Birth and as you note, probably the divinity of Jesus.

What I note is you don't what to affirm the Virgin Birth of Jesus because your claim that "husband/wife" mandates having sex - which means according to Matthew 1, they were having sex when Jesus became incarnate at the Annunciation.

What I note is your diversion, your evasion of the claim that in the Bible, the word "brother" must dogmatically mean "shares the same mother" when I showed you the Bible does not always mean such by that word (in fact, it usually does not).

What I note is your diversion, your evasion of my very simple request... an evasion for pages and pages, weeks and weeks. Your claim that the Bile states that Mary had sex and other children. You claim the Bible states that but won't quote the verses that do. I wonder why?


We can end this VERY easily: Just quote the verses that state" "Mary had sex" and "Mary had other kids." Easy. If the Bible says it.


See post 311 and 317





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I'll have to presume that your evasion is a resound NO to my que.
Meaning you deny Yeshua "came in the flesh".
A very basic understanding is that the Lord is concieved of The Holy Spirit.
Mary carried him in the flesh for
Nine months of gestation. Then came the birth.
All of which entails openth the matrix/womb.
Readers are informed.
Thankyou