Does Daniel chapters 8 and 11 prophesy about events that took place in Maccabees?

[pinacled]

Wait, hold on. Who defeated the Medes and the Persians?

I presume you are referring to alex

 

[pinacled]

Daniel 11
[ And now will I declare unto thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all; and when he is waxed strong through his riches, he shall stir up all against the realm of Greece.]

Who are these 4 kings according to secular history?

 

[NathanH83]

Daniel 11
[ And now will I declare unto thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all; and when he is waxed strong through his riches, he shall stir up all against the realm of Greece.]

Who are these 4 kings according to secular history?

Those are Persian kings in that passage. They’re not Greek kings. Don’t confuse them with the four horns.

When Daniel 8 talks about the 4 horns, it’s talking about Greek kings. The prominent horn is Alexander the Great. You got that right. He defeated the Persians. Then the horn is broken off, meaning Alexander dies. Then four horns grow up in its place. Meaning Alexander’s 4 generals take over the Greek empire, and make themselves kings over 4 sections.

Seleucus, Ptolemy, Cassander, and Lasymichus. Those were Alexander’s generals who became kings.

Prolemy was over Egypt (king of the South), and Seleucus was king of most of Asia (King of the North).

This is fulfilled in 1 Maccabees chapter 1.

 

[pinacled]

Those are Persian kings in that passage. They’re not Greek kings. Don’t confuse them with the four horns.

When Daniel 8 talks about the 4 horns, it’s talking about Greek kings. The prominent horn is Alexander the Great. You got that right. He defeated the Persians. Then the horn is broken off, meaning Alexander dies. Then four horns grow up in its place. Meaning Alexander’s 4 generals take over the Greek empire, and make themselves kings over 4 sections.

Seleucus, Ptolemy, Cassander, and Lasymichus. Those were Alexander’s generals who became kings.

Prolemy was over Egypt (king of the South), and Seleucus was king of most of Asia (King of the North).

This is fulfilled in 1 Maccabees chapter 1.

4 generals doesn't correlate with 4 kingdoms in secular history.
Can you show any evidence?

 

[NathanH83]

4 generals doesn't correlate with 4 kingdoms in secular history.
Can you show any evidence?

You asked me to explain it. Then you accuse me of lying?

Problem is, you need to research it yourself. If you research it yourself then you wouldn’t be asking stupid questions like you just did.

Yes, Alexander’s generals became kings after he died. Do some research. Learn some history. Plenty of documentaries from PBS, BBC, and History Channel. It’s pretty well known history.

Look into it yourself.

 

[pinacled]

You asked me to explain it. Then you accuse me of lying?

Problem is, you need to research it yourself. If you research it yourself then you wouldn’t be asking stupid questions like you just did.

Yes, Alexander’s generals became kings after he died. Do some research. Learn some history. Plenty of documentaries from PBS, BBC, and History Channel. It’s pretty well known history.

Look into it yourself.

Never accused of anything.
But I presume you don't have an answer from secular history.

Of the 4 generals only 2 kingdoms are mentioned.
One was a praetor in Turkey allied with the king of the north till his demise.

The other was where?

 

[NathanH83]

Never accused of anything.
But I presume you don't have an answer from secular history.

Of the 4 generals only 2 kingdoms are mentioned.
One was a praetor in Turkey allied with the king of the north till his demise.

The other was where?

Look into it yourself. I’m not Encyclopedia Brittanica.

That’s what happened. And is fulfilled in 1 Maccabees chapter 1.

 

[pinacled]

Look into it yourself. I’m not Encyclopedia Brittanica.

That’s what happened. And is fulfilled in 1 Maccabees chapter 1.

What about the 4 persian kings?
Was that fullfilled

 

[pinacled]

I'll add that daniel is a difficult scripture to study because it isn't a linear chronological record of events.

I suggest that readers delve into the numerical and directional compositions for understanding.

Along with the parallels in Israel's history.

Blessings Always

 

[NathanH83]

What about the 4 persian kings?
Was that fullfilled

God was talking to Daniel. Daniel lived during Cyrus. God was telling him that there would be a number of Persian kings before the Greek empire took over. And if you’d just look into the history of Alexander the Great, then Daniel 8 will make a lot more sense.

 

[pinacled]

God was talking to Daniel. Daniel lived during Cyrus. God was telling him that there would be a number of Persian kings before the Greek empire took over. And if you’d just look into the history of Alexander the Great, then Daniel 8 will make a lot more sense.

Though secular history isn't an area I relish to study. I have studied it.

Just thought you were going to expound further.

4 greek kings.
If according to secular history.
Three were to to north and one in the south.
Correct?
If so, who is the little horn?

 

[pinacled]

Though secular history isn't an area I relish to study. I have studied it.

Just thought you were going to expound further.

4 greek kings.
If according to secular history.
Three were to to north and one in the south.
Correct?
If so, who is the little horn?

[ And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the beauteous land.]

 

[NathanH83]

Though secular history isn't an area I relish to study. I have studied it.

Just thought you were going to expound further.

4 greek kings.
If according to secular history.
Three were to to north and one in the south.
Correct?
If so, who is the little horn?

The little horn is a king who came from the Seleucid empire. His name is Antiochus Epiphenes.

Ever seen the word “Antioch” in the New Testament? That city is named after the Greek kings with the name Antiochus (a number of them had that name).

Antiochus Epiphenes is the villain of the Hanukkah story. He is to Hanukkah what Darth Vader is to Star Wars.

 

[Josiah]

Martin Luther recognized 1rst Maccabees as containing fulfillment of prophecy in Daniel

If so, so what? If a book contains accurate history, does that prove ergo it MUST be the inerrant, divinely-inspired, canonical, inscripturated words of God?

Luther INCLUDED two of the Maccabee books in his tome since his tome included all the books generally put into Catholic Bibles of this day (except for the Epistle to the Leodiceans, the book he is still accused of "ripping out") PLUS ONE not generally found in Catholic tomes then. BUT he also stated his opinion that NEITHER of these Maccabee books are to be regarded as inerrant, divinely-inspired, canonical, inscripturated words of God. He encouraged people to read them for their inspirational messages and history but NOT as Scripture. I don't think Luther agreed that if a book has something of value in it, ERGO, it MUST be regarded as inerrant, divinely-inspired, canonical, inscripturated words pf God.



.

 

[pinacled]

The little horn is a king who came from the Seleucid empire. His name is Antiochus Epiphenes.

Ever seen the word “Antioch” in the New Testament? That city is named after the Greek kings with the name Antiochus (a number of them had that name).

Antiochus Epiphenes is the villain of the Hanukkah story. He is to Hanukkah what Darth Vader is to Star Wars.

The issue I have with the secular view is that the king of the south and north are greek. Sure there are similarities in history.
Yet,
Chapter 11 of daniel seems to be focusing on the persian empire.
And of course the history of trade routes are involved. Which is essentially priority of resources that wars are waged for.

[ And now I will tell you the truth: Persia will have three more kings, and the fourth will be wealthier than them all; by the power he obtains through his wealth, he will stir everyone up against the kingdom of Greece.]

 

[NathanH83]

The issue I have with the secular view is that the king of the south and north are greek. Sure there are similarities in history.
Yet,
Chapter 11 of daniel seems to be focusing on the persian empire.
And of course the history of trade routes are involved. Which is essentially priority of resources that wars are waged for.

[ And now I will tell you the truth: Persia will have three more kings, and the fourth will be wealthier than them all; by the power he obtains through his wealth, he will stir everyone up against the kingdom of Greece.]

Yea, and then it mentions Greece. You have to read this with Daniel 8 in mind. The goat is Greece.

 

[pinacled]

Yea, and then it mentions Greece. You have to read this with Daniel 8 in mind. The goat is Greece.

Just offering a genuine alternative perspective with deduction.
Haven't found much on persian history so I'll refrain from accepting that the north south kings were greek.

Do you have any notes on persian hustory.?

 

[pinacled]

Yea, and then it mentions Greece. You have to read this with Daniel 8 in mind. The goat is Greece.

Are you familiar with the silk road, historical trade routes, and geography?

 

[pinacled]

Just offering an genuine alternative perspective with deduction.
Haven't found much on persian history so I'll refrain from accepting that the north south kings were greek.

Do you have any notes on persian hustory.?

Another alternative perspective is that greece is the northern king and persia is the southern king according to their respective geographic latitudes.

Just a thought

 

[NathanH83]

Another alternative perspective is that greece is the northern king and persia is the southern king according to their respective geographic latitudes.

Just a thought

Dude, seriously. You need to actually research this.