Jesus died for the sins of the world

[atpollard]

All Sin is overcome and forgiven along with exemption from death unto Eternal Life for ALL THE WORLD however ANYONE can voluntarily refuse this forgiveness along with the promise of eternal life by rejecting Christ as their willing substitute so to remain condemned.

Verse that claims this in contrast to John 6:44 and John 10:29 and Romans 8:28-30 and Ephesians 2:4-5?

 

[Origen]

Preposition. Excuse me. In my mind, I was replacing is with the prepositional phrase "because of", which constitutes an adverbial phrase of purpose.

I understand.

 

[Andrew]

What is the “unforgivable sin” according to scripture?

1. Unbelief
2. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, disbelief can be forgiven upon repentance, if not then they are left at the mercy seat of God where all unbelievers will be judged according to their works, this is at the 2nd resurrection, and those who are not found in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire, the meek of them shall inherit the Earth (although they were once ignorant of God and the message while on Earth, every knee will bow, the meek shall inherit the next world)

 

[Andrew]

Verse that claims this in contrast to John 6:44 and John 10:29 and Romans 8:28-30 and Ephesians 2:4-5?

Harmonize
There are several classes of groups in Revelation, Meek, Sinners, Elect, tribulation saints, final converts and of course God has mercy on whom God has mercy on.
Jesus called the blasphemers and the corrupted priests goats because he knew their hearts and their thoughts he knew they were damned, he called those who perverted the Gospels false prophets, he was allowed to act like a Calvinist

 

[JRT]

Do you believe that Jesus had to die? I mean, that's what Christians believe, that He died for our sins, not just merely an execution by a group.

No. I regard his death as somewhat accidental as being in the wrong place at the wrong time. In addition to that, I do not believe in "blood atonement".

 

[Andrew]

No. I regard his death as somewhat accidental as being in the wrong place at the wrong time. In addition to that, I do not believe in "blood atonement".

Do you adhere to the Nicene Creed JRT?

 

[JRT]

Do you adhere to the Nicene Creed JRT?

I find it very problematic.

 

[Lamb]

I find it very problematic.

That's a No then?

 

[JRT]

That's a No then?

That is correct.

 

[Josiah]

Verse that claims this in contrast to John 6:44 and John 10:29 and Romans 8:28-30 and Ephesians 2:4-5?

All wonderful Scriptures! Thanks for sharing! And yes, Jesus is the Savior (not self).


None of them says, "Jesus died for only some and not others, and no one can know in which group they belong."


Blessings on your Lenten season...



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[Andrew]

@atpollard
Is it God wills that all be saved or God wills that many be saved?

 

[Josiah]

@atpollard
Is it God wills that all be saved or God wills that many be saved?

IMO, they are by no means mutually exclusive. If I said, "I love my wife" that does NOT mean "I don't love my son." Especially if I repeatedly said, "I love all in my family." True, there is a verse that says Jesus died for many (as opposed to "some?") and Jesus died for the elect. And that Jesus died for all, that God loves the world. Nothing contradictory here. "Elect" and "many" are subsets of all and whole... just as wife is a subject of my family.




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[Andrew]

IMO, they are by no means mutually exclusive. If I said, "I love my wife" that does NOT mean "I don't love my son." Especially if I repeatedly said, "I love all in my family." True, there is a verse that says Jesus died for many (as opposed to "some?") and Jesus died for the elect. And that Jesus died for all, that God loves the world. Nothing contradictory here. "Elect" and "many" are subsets of all and whole... just as wife is a subject of my family.




.

I was originally going to same "some", my point is that Gods preferences is that all be saved, Jesus did His Fathers will, but man is given free will, everyone in the Bible had free will except for Jesus and he could not force others to do what God wills.
God willed that Adam not take the forbidden fruit, but God does not force his will on others but by the Holy Spirit which he gives to the faithful

 

[Lamb]

I was originally going to same "some", my point is that Gods preferences is that all be saved, Jesus did His Fathers will, but man is given free will, everyone in the Bible had free will except for Jesus and he could not force others to do what God wills.
God willed that Adam not take the forbidden fruit, but God does not force his will on others but by the Holy Spirit which he gives to the faithful

I disagree.

Since the fall, man's will has been toward sin because our holiness was no longer there...so we can't choose to become something (holy) that we don't have. God is the only one who can make us holy. Our will is bound to sin.

What do you mean Jesus did not have free will? He's God. The "will" is always in focus of God's will.

 

[Josiah]

I was originally going to same "some", my point is that Gods preferences is that all be saved, Jesus did His Fathers will, but man is given free will, everyone in the Bible had free will except for Jesus and he could not force others to do what God wills.
God willed that Adam not take the forbidden fruit, but God does not force his will on others but by the Holy Spirit which he gives to the faithful

I disagree with the "free will" point, but that's well outside the scope of this thread. And, as you know, I have often posted my position that Jesus is the Savior and thus Jesus is the one who saves.

But I agree that "many" does not mandate "not all" especially when the Bible clearly says "all."



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[Andrew]

I disagree.

Since the fall, man's will has been toward sin because our holiness was no longer there...so we can't choose to become something (holy) that we don't have. God is the only one who can make us holy. Our will is bound to sin.

What do you mean Jesus did not have free will? He's God. The "will" is always in focus of God's will.

Well, Jesus had the will of God yes and God can not sin thus Jesus cannot sin and by human standards our nature/will is to sin so.. I get what you mean though, the cup that Jesus wanted to have taken from him was something he could never possibly act on being God incarnate even though he was also 100% human.

I explained in an earlier post that God offers us the gift first and if we take it THEN the offer is rendered as a giving and by no means can we seek God and take it from him... he offers it to all who believe (faith comes from hearing and hearing by the the Word of God) so without hearing the word of God you cannot believe and thus faith which is given by God is unseen and unknown and impossible to have

 

[Andrew]

A shorter version

We have free will to either accept the gift from God or reject it, we have knowledge of good and evil (which is why we are fallen, you cant serve two masters) but wisdom comes from God and faith from hearing the Word of God

 

[Lamb]

A shorter version

We have free will to either accept the gift from God or reject it, we have knowledge of good and evil (which is why we are fallen, you cant serve two masters) but wisdom comes from God and faith from hearing the Word of God

How can a dead man accept something? Didn't God give life unto Adam? Didn't Jesus give resurrection to Lazarus? We are spiritually dead until God gives us "by grace" faith to believe in Him. We are breathed new life because of God. That's not a choice.

 

[Josiah]

I explained in an earlier post that God offers us the gift first and if we take it THEN the offer is rendered

I think this good thread is getting derailed......

BUT (LOL)....

I disagree. Jesus is not the OFFERER of salvation, He's the Savior.

as a giving and by no means can we seek God and take it from him... he offers it to all who believe

Which is it? We cannot seek God or "take" anything...... or God just OFFERS a gift and we can seek and take it?

faith which is given by God is unseen

So, which is it? Jesus doesn't save but makes it POSSIBLE for us to save ourselves IF we choose to take it? OR Jesus saves us and gives us faith that makes such our own?



Now, to the topic here: Yes, Jesus died for ALL. No, not all are saved because the divine gift of faith is needed to apprehend that, to apply that to our case. It's SOLA GRATIA - SOLUS CHRISTUS - SOLA FIDE, all of which is the gift and action of God, who alone is the Savior (SOLI DEO GLORIA)




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[Andrew]

How can a dead man accept something? Didn't God give life unto Adam? Didn't Jesus give resurrection to Lazarus? We are spiritually dead until God gives us "by grace" faith to believe in Him. We are breathed new life because of God. That's not a choice.

Faith is given to those who hear and hearing from the word of God. We accept what God has given us, "accept" as in we are pleased with Gods grace that he has given, we accept it. Believers cannot reject the grace, yes mankind chooses darkness over light, but the calling to repent from the darkness comes from God and through his earthly ministers he has ordained, when he says "come" or "rise" we do so, the dead can't hear BUT if God wills that all men be saved then why would he will against it and leave many dead without hope? This is why I understand Calvinism but I don't like it because I can't spread the word if I cant tell them that God loves them..? I understand that "God loves you" is not the Gospel, of course I preach the gospel to them along with that lol