Early Christian writings along with the NT...

[pinacled]

יז כִּי סְבָבוּנִי, כְּלָבִים: עֲדַת מְרֵעִים, הִקִּיפוּנִי; כָּאֲרִי, יָדַי וְרַגְלָי.17

For dogs have encompassed me;

a company of evil-doers have inclosed me;

like a lion,
they are at my hands and my feet.

Pay attention to the mathematical composition

 

[pinacled]

Virgin is one difference.
If you look up the TaNaKh Hebrew to English translation you will notice that it differs, especially when concerning certain prophetic passages for example.. look in your OT bible for Psalm 22:16 and see if it reads "For dogs have encircled me, an evil congregation surrounded me; like a lion my hands and my feet"

If it says anything about "piercing my hands and feet" you aren't reading the true Hebrew Masoretic translation, you are reading a so called "Christianized" Masoretic.

Jerome intermixed the two (Hebrew/proto-masoretic and LXX) to "correct" our OT.

This is why Tovia says Christians have meddled with Hebrew scripture

Remember not to ask amiss in the fruit of spirit youngin.

Blessings Always

 

[pinacled]

Virgin is one difference.
If you look up the TaNaKh Hebrew to English translation you will notice that it differs, especially when concerning certain prophetic passages for example.. look in your OT bible for Psalm 22:16 and see if it reads "For dogs have encircled me, an evil congregation surrounded me; like a lion my hands and my feet"

If it says anything about "piercing my hands and feet" you aren't reading the true Hebrew Masoretic translation, you are reading a so called "Christianized" Masoretic.

Jerome intermixed the two (Hebrew/proto-masoretic and LXX) to "correct" our OT.

This is why Tovia says Christians have meddled with Hebrew scripture

יז כִּי סְבָבוּנִי, כְּלָבִים: עֲדַת מְרֵעִים, הִקִּיפוּנִי; כָּאֲרִי, יָדַי וְרַגְלָי.

17 For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.
יח אֲסַפֵּר כָּל-עַצְמוֹתָי; הֵמָּה יַבִּיטוּ, יִרְאוּ-בִי.

18 I may count all my bones; they look and gloat over me.
יט יְחַלְּקוּ בְגָדַי לָהֶם; וְעַל-לְבוּשִׁי, יַפִּילוּ גוֹרָל.

19 They part my garments among them, and for my vesture do they cast lots.
כ וְאַתָּה יְהוָה, אַל-תִּרְחָק; אֱיָלוּתִי, לְעֶזְרָתִי חוּשָׁה.

20 But Thou, O LORD, be not far off; O Thou my strength, hasten to help me.
כא הַצִּילָה מֵחֶרֶב נַפְשִׁי; מִיַּד-כֶּלֶב, יְחִידָתִי.

21 Deliver my soul from the sword; mine only one from the power of the dog.



[ "Look closer for the hebrew word dog]

Psalms 22 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

www.mechon-mamre.org

 

[pinacled]

יז כִּי סְבָבוּנִי, כְּלָבִים: עֲדַת מְרֵעִים, הִקִּיפוּנִי; כָּאֲרִי, יָדַי וְרַגְלָי.

17 For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.
יח אֲסַפֵּר כָּל-עַצְמוֹתָי; הֵמָּה יַבִּיטוּ, יִרְאוּ-בִי.

18 I may count all my bones; they look and gloat over me.
יט יְחַלְּקוּ בְגָדַי לָהֶם; וְעַל-לְבוּשִׁי, יַפִּילוּ גוֹרָל.

19 They part my garments among them, and for my vesture do they cast lots.
כ וְאַתָּה יְהוָה, אַל-תִּרְחָק; אֱיָלוּתִי, לְעֶזְרָתִי חוּשָׁה.

20 But Thou, O LORD, be not far off; O Thou my strength, hasten to help me.
כא הַצִּילָה מֵחֶרֶב נַפְשִׁי; מִיַּד-כֶּלֶב, יְחִידָתִי.

21 Deliver my soul from the sword; mine only one from the power of the dog.



[ "Look closer for the hebrew word dog]

Psalms 22 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

www.mechon-mamre.org

כְּלָבִים

The meaning is beast without knowledge and understanding

 

[pinacled]

כְּלָבִים

The meaning is beast without knowledge and understanding

In verse 20 is deliverance from the beast(dogs) power
מִיַּד-כֶּלֶב

 

[Andrew]

I've never heard of rabbi tobias singer's converts called noachide.

Perhaps you should study the hebrew language, culture, and history instead of watching youtube sycophants.

Blessings Always

He teaches that Christian gentiles can follow the 7 noahide laws and be saved aka seen as righteous before God without converting to Judaism or being obedience in the Laws of Moses.

Also yes "spotted" is the opposite of being "without blemish" hence why in Jewish prophecy a perfect Red Heifer will be sacrificed when the New High Priest/Messiah comes... That prophecy refers to Christ.

Lions however have no physical spots, they are ravenous and fierce indeed but when Jesus cried out a quote from psalm 22 while on the Cross He was pointing us to the lament acrostic being a literal fulfillment

"For many dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked doers has beset me round: they pierced my hands and my feet"
LXX

Jesus used the word "dog" once before and in context refers to being cast outside, a sinner, unless they proclaim Him as Lord, such was the case with the Canaanite woman who named him King and was blessed

 

[pinacled]

As for peirced.
The complexities of a king enduring 4 generations cursed is matter of weight and judgment with hope of salvation to come.
Whether a spotted dog or youthful lion decries the blessed inheritance.

No beast can challenge the promise of Shaddai

 

[Origen]

כְּלָבִים

The meaning is beast without knowledge and understanding

The word means "dog."

Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, pp. 476-477


Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, vol 1, p. 439


The Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament, vol 2, p. 476



Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, vol. 4, p. 415



New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis, vol.2 p. 632.

 

[pinacled]

He teaches that Christian gentiles can follow the 7 noahide laws and be saved aka seen as righteous before God without converting to Judaism or being obedience in the Laws of Moses.

Also yes "spotted" is the opposite of being "without blemish" hence why in Jewish prophecy a perfect Red Heifer will be sacrificed when the New High Priest/Messiah comes... That prophecy refers to Christ.

Lions however have no physical spots, they are ravenous and fierce indeed but when Jesus cried out a quote from psalm 22 while on the Cross He was pointing us to the lament acrostic being a literal fulfillment

"For many dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked doers has beset me round: they pierced my hands and my feet"
LXX

Jesus used the word "dog" once before and in context refers to being cast outside, a sinner, unless they proclaim Him as Lord, such was the case with the Canaanite woman who named him King and was blessed

Careful,
You are stretching and conflating the definitinition of sinner to the hebrew definition of dog.

A dog is still loyal unto the 4th generation.
Were as a beast betrays in its 5th generation without compasion.

A dog at the table is a 4th generation seeking healing for their offspring from the master.

A beast of the 5th generation will beg to enter swine and escape their fate.

 

[Andrew]

And what do you do when the N.T. clearly follows the Hebrew and not the LXX as it does in this example (and there are others)?

out of Egypt I called my son - (N.T.)
out of Egypt I called my son - (Hebrew/proto-masoretic)
out of Egypt I called his children - (LXX)
See O.T. quotes in the N.T.

The LXX clearly misses (or changes deliberately?) the messianic significance of the verse. In fact one could argue that the LXX goes out of its way to remove the messianic element in order to change the meaning of the text.

The LXX has mistakes too, just far less ones.
Israel is both a son (Jacob) and a nation (children of), this error hardly suggest a deliberate motive to reject Jesus as THE suffering servant (another expression for Israel)

 

[Andrew]

Careful,
You are stretching and conflating the definitinition of sinner to the hebrew definition of dog.

A dog is still loyal unto the 4th generation.
Were as a beast betrays in its 5th generation without compasion.

A dog at the table is a 4th generation seeking healing for their offspring from the master.

A beast of the 5th generation will beg to enter swine and escape their fate.

I am not talking about loyalty, dogs are cast "outside", such as in Revelation, those outside the kingdom are sinners. It does not mean that your dog "Spotty" or "Snuffles" is a sinner

 

[pinacled]

The word means "dog."

View attachment 1331Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, pp. 476-477


View attachment 1332Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, vol 1, p. 439

View attachment 1333
The Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament, vol 2, p. 476


View attachment 1334
Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, vol. 4, p. 415


View attachment 1335
New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis, vol.2 p. 632.

I admire your curiosity sir origen.
Hebrew has a numerical exposition rarely taught.

Love you

 

[Origen]

The LXX has mistakes too, just far less ones.

I know of no one who has added up all the difference so I doubt there is any objective evidence one way or the other.

Israel is both a son (Jacob) and a nation (children of), this error hardly suggest a deliberate motive to reject Jesus as THE suffering servant (another expression for Israel)

The point is that the N.T. did not follow the LXX. Matthew rejected that reading (and that is not the only one). Moreover the LXX clearly misses (or changes deliberately?) the messianic significance of the verse.

 

[Andrew]

Careful,
You are stretching and conflating the definitinition of sinner to the hebrew definition of dog.

A dog is still loyal unto the 4th generation.
Were as a beast betrays in its 5th generation without compasion.

A dog at the table is a 4th generation seeking healing for their offspring from the master.

A beast of the 5th generation will beg to enter swine and escape their fate.

I agree it can also refer to a backslider, once loyal but then untamed, that makes since too, backsliders are also kept outside the Kingdom

 

[Andrew]

Careful,
You are stretching and conflating the definitinition of sinner to the hebrew definition of dog.

A dog is still loyal unto the 4th generation.
Were as a beast betrays in its 5th generation without compasion.

A dog at the table is a 4th generation seeking healing for their offspring from the master.

A beast of the 5th generation will beg to enter swine and escape their fate.

I agree it can also refer to a backslider, once loyal but then untamed, that makes since too, backsliders are also kept outside the Kingdom

 

[pinacled]

I am not talking about loyalty, dogs are cast "outside", such as in Revelation, those outside the kingdom are sinners. It does not mean that your dog "Spotty" or "Snuffles" is a sinner

What dogs are "without"
Compare the greek in revelation to what I've stated

 

[pinacled]

I agree it can also refer to a backslider, once loyal but then untamed, that makes since too, backsliders are also kept outside the Kingdom

Excellent point

 

[pinacled]

I agree it can also refer to a backslider, once loyal but then untamed, that makes since too, backsliders are also kept outside the Kingdom

Hebrews 6:4

 

[Andrew]

I know of no one who has added up all the difference so I doubt there is any objective evidence one way or the other.


The point is that the N.T. did not follow the LXX. Matthew rejected that reading (and that is not the only one). Moreover the LXX clearly misses (or changes deliberately?) the messianic significance of the verse.

The LXX was composed of several versions of the Septuagint, one of which was likely Aquilas version, Jerome later would switch around verses from Origins composition with the prot-Masoretic which also differs in a few areas from the Christian Masoretic

I believe the Septuagint is incorrect in that specific line. It should be "Son"

 

[Origen]

I admire your curiosity sir origen.

It has nothing to do with curiosity. That is simply the fact of the matter. Modern Hebrew uses the same word for dog.