Early Christian writings along with the NT...

Origen

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I apologise, however the talmud documents confirm the translation of Aquila and the Rabbi who ordained the translation along with the reason why. You can find it on a site called "Sacred Text" -Judaism, it's in the history section of the Talmud.
The list of differences between the MT and the LXX can be confirmed with a simple comparison of the Septuagint text with the Masoretic text.
No need to apologize.

The Talmud is a huge work, many volumes. Please provide those primary sources references (and links if you would be so kind) so that I may check them.

Yes I know there are differences. I never disagreed with that. Yet there are example from the N.T. which disagree with LXX and are spot on with the MT. I have provided examples and there are others. See link below:

O.T. quotes in the N.T.
 
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pinacled

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No need to apologize.

The Talmud is a huge work, many volumes. Please provide those primary sources references (and links if you would be so kind) so that I may check them.

Yes I know there are differences. I never disagreed with that. Yet there are example from the N.T. which disagree with LXX and are spot on with the MT. I have provided examples and there are others. See link below:

O.T. quotes in the N.T.
Here is a link to source material of the talmud/targums.

 

Origen

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Here is a link to source material of the talmud/targums.

Yeah but that does not tell us where to find the specific citation @Andrew mentions.

the talmud documents confirm the translation of Aquila and the Rabbi who ordained the translation along with the reason why.
The Talmud is a HUGE document.
 
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pinacled

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Yeah but that does not tell where to find the specific citation @Andrew mentions.


The Talmud is a HUGE document.
True.

I've scarcely combed the tractates myself.
And I very much doubt that @Andrew will cite the source they found.

Blessings Always
 

Andrew

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Yeah but that does not tell where to find the specific citation @Andrew mentions.


The Talmud is a HUGE document.
Here you will find Rabbi Akiva as mentioned, in this babylonian talmud book 10 History Volume 1 chapter 3 his name is spelled "Rabbi Aqiba"

 

Origen

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Here you will find Rabbi Akiva as mentioned, in this babylonian talmud book 10 History Volume 1 chapter 3 his name is spelled "Rabbi Aqiba"

Sorry but I asked for primary sources. That is not a primary source.

You said "the talmud documents confirm the translation of Aquila and the Rabbi who ordained the translation along with the reason why."

That source is not the Talmud. A source can say anything it wants when no one can check and verify the claim.

Thanks for trying.
 

Andrew

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Sorry but I asked for primary sources. That is not a primary source.

You said "the talmud documents confirm the translation of Aquila and the Rabbi who ordained the translation along with the reason why."

That source is not the Talmud. A source can say anything it wants when no one can check and verify the claim.

Thanks for trying.
Its a translation of the talmud, its book 10 the history of the talmud, the only other primary source is to buy the complete talmud or ask a talmudic rabbi.

Perhaps check all the wikipedia citations
 

Andrew

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Origen

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Its a translation of the talmud, its book 10 the history of the talmud, the only other primary source is to buy the complete talmud or ask a talmudic rabbi.
Sorry that is not the Talmud. That is a book about the Talmud not a translation of the Talmud.

Here is the title page.
Volume I: History of the Talmud: Title Page

Here is the table of contents.
Babylonian Talmud, Book 10, Rodkinson tr.: History of the Talmud Index

The Talmud is divided into six orders and then into (I believe) 63 different tractates.

Have you check the primary sources for yourself?
 

Andrew

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Sorry that is not the Talmud. That is a book about the Talmud not a translation of the Talmud.

Here is the title page.
Volume I: History of the Talmud: Title Page

Here is the table of contents.
Babylonian Talmud, Book 10, Rodkinson tr.: History of the Talmud Index

The Talmud is divided into six orders and then into (I believe) 63 different tractates.

Have you check the primary sources for yourself?
No the the table of contents is here.
His work was incomplete, the history volume is what you are referring to.
However you can still check out Rabbi Aqiba on wiki and follow their sources or as a rabbi, I have heard rabbis speak on him in lectures on youtube, im sure he isnt a mythical figure
 

Origen

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No the the table of contents is here.
I see nine books containing 17 volumes total. That is literally hundreds, most likely thousands of pages. I cannot read the whole Talmud looking for one reference.

Could you cut and paste the information (as cited in the Talmud) and the reference point in the Talmud for the following claim: "the talmud documents confirm the translation of Aquila and the Rabbi who ordained the translation along with the reason why."
 
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Andrew

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I see nine books containing 17 volumes total. That is literally hundreds, most likely thousands of pages. I cannot read the whole Talmud looking for one reference.

Could you cut and paste the information (as cited in the Talmud) and the reference point in the Talmud for the following claim: "the talmud documents confirm the translation of Aquila and the Rabbi who ordained the translation along with the reason why."
Likewise I cannot read the whole talmud either although he is the main contributor to the Talmud mishna, if that helps any..

New world encyclopedia has a lot of "according to the talmud Akiva...."
but it doesnt cite where...

 

Origen

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Likewise I cannot read the whole talmud either although he is the main contributor to the Talmud mishna, if that helps any..

New world encyclopedia has a lot of "according to the talmud Akiva...."
but it doesnt cite where...

So you have never tracked down the citation and read it for yourself???
 

Andrew

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So you have never tracked down the citation and read it for yourself???
Yes my mistake using the english translation of the Babylonian talmud and citing a volume about the history of the Talmud including the creator of the mishna (the Rabbi we are looking for) -being not actually in the Talmud albeit its main contributor.
Its like searching for the word bible in the bible.
 

Origen

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Yes my mistake using the english translation of the Babylonian talmud and citing a volume about the history of the Talmud including the creator of the mishna (the Rabbi we are looking for) -being not actually in the Talmud albeit its main contributor.
Its like searching for the word bible in the bible.
First, sorry but I had to ask. People often simply accept something they have read without tracking down the sources in order to verify them. Sometimes those citations do not support the claim or simply do not exist at all. That is why I ask for specific references in order to check. It was nothing personal.

Again, thank you are your effort.

Second, Akiba was not creator of the Mishnah.

The Mishnah was compiled ca. A.D. 200 by Judah the Prince who was supposedly born A.D. 135 the same year as Akiba died. The Babylonian Talmud (Kiddushin 72b) states:

The Gemara comments: As the Master said: While Rabbi Akiva was dying, Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi was born; while Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi was dying, Rav Yehuda was born; while Rav Yehuda was dying, Rava was born; while Ravawas dying, Rav Ashi was born. This teaches you that a righteous person does not leave the world before an equally righteous person is created, as it is stated: “The sun also rises and the sun also sets” (Ecclesiastes 1:5). The same applies to earlier generations: Before Eli’s sun had gone out, Samuel the Ramathite’s sun was already rising, as it is stated: “And the lamp of God was not yet gone out, and Samuel was lying in the Temple of the Lord” (I Samuel 3:3), which teaches that Samuel was already prophesying in the days of Eli.

Judah the Prince is the one who brought together the Jewish oral traditions into a document known as the Mishnah.
 
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pinacled

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"And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the son of David; they were sore displeased, And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?"
Matthew 21:15-16

They were PRAISING Him!!!

"Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger"
Psalm 8:2 (MT)

"Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou perfected praise, because of thine enemies; that thou mightest put down the enemy and avenger"
Psalm 8:2 (LXX)
Milk from a jewish mother
 

pinacled

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I don't believe I am "a man of talk" just because I refuse to believe that Jesus constantly misquotes the OT.

It makes no sense at all how our NT quotes of the OT scripture match up with the Septuagint while the Masoretic doesn't line up with either of them, yet we shun the Septuagint and praise the Masoretic.
Either Jesus misquotes OT or the Masoretic is an altered Hebrew.

However, if you wish to leave the conversation then please do, you call me all talk and hint that I am anti-semitic why?
because I actually reach out to Jews on Jewish forums who quote the Masoretic to disprove Jesus? and then when I refute it with the Septuagint quotes they turn around and say the that the Christians altered the Septuagint to match up with the NT because the NT was poorly written by non hebrews in a cult frenzy, do you have any idea how many Christians have left the Church due to Rabbi Tovia Singers "Outreach Judaism"?

19 minutes in
You've already been proven wrong by 2 witnesses
 

pinacled

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First, sorry but I had to ask. People often simply accept something they have read without tracking down the sources in order to verify them. Sometimes those citations do not support the claim or simply do not exist at all. That is why I ask for specific references in order to check. It was nothing personal.

Again, thank you are your effort.

Second, Akiba was not creator of the Mishnah.

The Mishnah was compiled ca. A.D. 200 by Judah the Prince who was supposedly born A.D. 135 the same year as Akiba died. The Babylonian Talmud (Kiddushin 72b) states:

The Gemara comments: As the Master said: While Rabbi Akiva was dying, Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi was born; while Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi was dying, Rav Yehuda was born; while Rav Yehuda was dying, Rava was born; while Ravawas dying, Rav Ashi was born. This teaches you that a righteous person does not leave the world before an equally righteous person is created, as it is stated: “The sun also rises and the sun also sets” (Ecclesiastes 1:5). The same applies to earlier generations: Before Eli’s sun had gone out, Samuel the Ramathite’s sun was already rising, as it is stated: “And the lamp of God was not yet gone out, and Samuel was lying in the Temple of the Lord” (I Samuel 3:3), which teaches that Samuel was already prophesying in the days of Eli.

Judah the Prince is the one who brought together the Jewish oral traditions into a document known as the Mishnah.
Oxford is an Anglican secondary source wrought with bias.
 
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Origen

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Oxford is an Anglican secondary source wrought with bias.
The information in the article can be verified in numerous sources. It is general information that can be found easily.



 
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Andrew

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