What If I Was Born Dishonest?

[Odë:hgöd]

.
• Ps 58:3 . . The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go
astray from birth.


If perchance someone reading this is a natural-born liar; they should probably take
advantage of whatever time they have remaining to begin preparing themselves for
the worst when they pass on.


• Rev 21:8 . . . All liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and
brimstone, which is the second death.
_

 

[Lamb]

.
• Ps 58:3 . . The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go
astray from birth.


If perchance someone reading this is a natural-born liar; they should probably take
advantage of whatever time they have remaining to begin preparing themselves for
the worst when they pass on.


• Rev 21:8 . . . All liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and
brimstone, which is the second death.
_

So Jesus' blood can't save them? How sad (sarcasm).

The Law tells sinners what they have done and the consequences...the GOSPEL tells them about Jesus the Savior who died for their sins.

 

[JRT]

I do not read the Genesis myth as a fall from an original state of perfection into sin and death. The first couple were completely innocent and naive creatures. They were certainly capable of making a mistake but, without knowing good from evil, they lacked even the ability to sin. That ability came only with them eating of the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil". To me the story is a "coming of age story". Our mythical first couple graduated from animal status into to fully self aware human beings capable of making moral judgements. This is not an Original Sin story but rather an Original Blessing story that should be celebrated. We are not a people fallen from an original state of perfection into sin and death.


Why the expulsion from Eden? In the mythology, I believe it to be symbolic that mankind was no longer a naïve creature living in moral ignorance but had become real men and women living in a real world where there was real good and evil.


What we are is a people that is still evolving and that evolution has profoundly affected not just our bodies but our psyches as well. The world in which we evolved was a difficult and dagerous one and mere survival was of the highest priority. Selfishness became a part of who we are as a survival mechanism. This selfish instinct is no longer as necessary as in our savage past but it is still powerful. If there is an "Original Sin", this is it. Of course it is not a sin really but an innate part of our nature and it can be overcome.


In the words of Bishop John Spong: "Every living thing, plant and animal is programmed to survive. What is true of all these living things is also true of human life. The only difference is that we human beings are self-conscious, while plants and animals are not. If survival is our highest goal, self-centeredness is inevitable and thus this quality becomes a constant part of the human experience. Traditionally, the church has called this "original sin" and has explained it with the myth of the fall. That was simply wrong. Survival is a quality found in life itself. There was no fall. Self-centered, survival driven, self-conscious creatures is simply who we are. There is thus no such thing as "original sin" from which we need to be rescued by a divine invader. So much of traditional Christianity assumes this false premise."


In conclusion, we are born sinless but we are not born perfect. We have the defect of selfishness and from that flows every other sin --- greed, gluttony, lust, anger, sloth and the like.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

So Jesus' blood can't save them? How sad (sarcasm).

The Law tells sinners what they have done and the consequences...the GOSPEL tells them about Jesus the Savior who died for their sins.

So Jesus' sacrifice just pays the fine for the sins, but doesn't change the people's sinful nature?

 

[Lamb]

So Jesus' sacrifice just pays the fine for the sins, but doesn't change the people's sinful nature?

Do you think that anyone could change enough that God would accept him or her? No is the answer. We will never measure up which is why we are covered in Jesus' righteousness.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
• Rev 21:1-3 . . Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and
the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy
City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride
beautifully dressed for her husband.

• Rev 21:27 . . Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is
deceitful

• Rev 22:15 . . Outside is everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Those passages are really bad news for natural-born liars because deception and
disinformation are pretty much the only way of life they know.

FAQ: What's on the "outside" referred to in Rev 22:15?

A: The sum of all fears.

• Rev 21:8 . . . All liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and
brimstone, which is the second death.
_

 

[Lamb]

.
• Rev 21:1-3 . . Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and
the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy
City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride
beautifully dressed for her husband.

• Rev 21:27 . . Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is
deceitful

• Rev 22:15 . . Outside is everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Those passages are really bad news for natural-born liars because deception and
disinformation are pretty much the only way of life they know.

FAQ: What's on the "outside" referred to in Rev 22:15?

A: The sum of all fears.

• Rev 21:8 . . . All liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and
brimstone, which is the second death.
_

Yes, those passages are LAW and none of us can obey the Law full enough to get to eternal life with God. That's why God sent His Son as our Savior to die for those sins and now they are atoned for because of His death at the cross. Thanks be to God for saving us.

 

[atpollard]

If perchance someone reading this is a natural-born liar; they should probably take
advantage of whatever time they have remaining to begin preparing themselves for
the worst when they pass on.

Everyone is a natural born liar.

No parent ever needed to teach their child to say “no” when asked if they took a cookie.

 

[pinacled]

Everyone is a natural born liar.

No parent ever needed to teach their child to say “no” when asked if they took a cookie.

If everyone were a natural born liar and children of the devil?

“You are from your father The Devil, and the desire of your father you are willing to do; from the beginning he has been murdering men and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him; whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from what is his, because he is of falsehood and is also its father.”

Why then would yeshua(jesus) say,

“Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Blessed be The Holy One

 

[pinacled]

Everyone is a natural born liar.

No parent ever needed to teach their child to say “no” when asked if they took a cookie.

The christian theology sub-forum is a place of fellowship and discusion amidst the fruits of the spirit.

Sowing trite words will be met with a sword.

Blessings Always

 

[Lamb]

If everyone were a natural born liar and children of the devil?

“You are from your father The Devil, and the desire of your father you are willing to do; from the beginning he has been murdering men and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him; whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from what is his, because he is of falsehood and is also its father.”

Why then would yeshua(jesus) say,

“Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Blessed be The Holy One

Jesus was proving to the disciples that children COULD have faith, and he wasn't implying that all children are born without sin. We are all in need of a Savior, no one can bypass Him.

 

[Josiah]

If everyone were a natural born liar and children of the devil?

Why then would yeshua(jesus) say,

“Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Exactly BECAUSE they are by nature sinful and not children of God... they NEED Jesus. Why would Jesus want children to come to Him if He had nothing for them?


But the point of Jesus in that verse is not exactly that.... His point is that faith (trust/reliance) is to be "child like" - simple, trusting, not stumbling over mystery, etc. A CHILD LIKE faith.

IF children were all born perfect... then the best way to get everyone into heaven would be to kill all babies at (or before) birth (and abortion would be the method of salvation) - Jesus would not have been needed, faith would not be needed, grace and mercy would not be needed, forgiveness would not be needed - just a sharp knife. Kill 'em before they loose perfection. But that's not what Christianity teaches, is it? Because children are not BORN saved, they are BORN lost - sinful - fallen.

Perhaps you are childless, Pinacled, but as a PARENT, I can assure you ... with absolute, 100% confidence.... children are not born holy and perfect.


.

 

[atpollard]

If everyone were a natural born liar and children of the devil?

“You are from your father The Devil, and the desire of your father you are willing to do; from the beginning he has been murdering men and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him; whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from what is his, because he is of falsehood and is also its father.”

Why then would yeshua(jesus) say,

“Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Blessed be The Holy One

When did you teach your child to lie?

Prove my statement false.

 

[atpollard]

The christian theology sub-forum is a place of fellowship and discusion amidst the fruits of the spirit.

If you say so. The jury is still out on that in my opinion.

Sowing trite words will be met with a sword.

Exercise caution when swinging a sword or you may poke an eye out.

What does the Psalms say about “conceived in iniquity“?
What does the Psalms say about “Liars from birth”?
What does Genesis say about man’s heart continuously desiring evil?

Where does scripture say “except for cute little babies”?

 

[pinacled]

If you say so. The jury is still out on that in my opinion.


Exercise caution when swinging a sword or you may poke an eye out.

What does the Psalms say about “conceived in iniquity“?
What does the Psalms say about “Liars from birth”?
What does Genesis say about man’s heart continuously desiring evil?

Where does scripture say “except for cute little babies”?

Psalms 51 is about David's sin of adultery.
A sin conceived in his mother's womb refers to David's sin birthing the death of his first born.
He is mourning and pleading.


א לַמְנַצֵּחַ, מִזְמוֹר לְדָוִד.1 For the Leader. A Psalm of David;
ב בְּבוֹא-אֵלָיו, נָתָן הַנָּבִיא-- כַּאֲשֶׁר-בָּא, אֶל-בַּת-שָׁבַע.2 When Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bath-sheba.
ג חָנֵּנִי אֱלֹהִים כְּחַסְדֶּךָ; כְּרֹב רַחֲמֶיךָ, מְחֵה פְשָׁעָי.3 Be gracious unto me, O God, according to Thy mercy; according to the multitude of Thy compassions blot out my transgressions.
ד הרבה (הֶרֶב), כַּבְּסֵנִי מֵעֲוֺנִי; וּמֵחַטָּאתִי טַהֲרֵנִי.4 Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
ה כִּי-פְשָׁעַי, אֲנִי אֵדָע; וְחַטָּאתִי נֶגְדִּי תָמִיד.5 For I know my transgressions; and my sin is ever before me.
ו לְךָ לְבַדְּךָ, חָטָאתִי, וְהָרַע בְּעֵינֶיךָ, עָשִׂיתִי:
לְמַעַן, תִּצְדַּק בְּדָבְרֶךָ-- תִּזְכֶּה בְשָׁפְטֶךָ.6 Against Thee, Thee only, have I sinned, and done that which is evil in Thy sight; {N}
that Thou mayest be justified when Thou speakest, and be in the right when Thou judgest.
ז הֵן-בְּעָווֹן חוֹלָלְתִּי; וּבְחֵטְא, יֶחֱמַתְנִי אִמִּי.7 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
ח הֵן-אֱמֶת, חָפַצְתָּ בַטֻּחוֹת; וּבְסָתֻם, חָכְמָה תוֹדִיעֵנִי.8 Behold, Thou desirest truth in the inward parts; make me, therefore, to know wisdom in mine inmost heart.

 

[pinacled]

If you say so. The jury is still out on that in my opinion.


Exercise caution when swinging a sword or you may poke an eye out.

What does the Psalms say about “conceived in iniquity“?
What does the Psalms say about “Liars from birth”?
What does Genesis say about man’s heart continuously desiring evil?

Where does scripture say “except for cute little babies”?

Psalms 58
Far as I can see is about the philistines


א לַמְנַצֵּחַ אַל-תַּשְׁחֵת, לְדָוִד מִכְתָּם.1 For the Leader; Al-tashheth. [A Psalm] of David; Michtam.
ב הַאֻמְנָם--אֵלֶם צֶדֶק, תְּדַבֵּרוּן; מֵישָׁרִים תִּשְׁפְּטוּ, בְּנֵי אָדָם.2 Do ye indeed speak as a righteous company? Do ye judge with equity the sons of men?
ג אַף-בְּלֵב, עוֹלֹת תִּפְעָלוּן: בָּאָרֶץ--חֲמַס יְדֵיכֶם, תְּפַלֵּסוּן.3 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh out in the earth the violence of your hands.
ד זֹרוּ רְשָׁעִים מֵרָחֶם; תָּעוּ מִבֶּטֶן, דֹּבְרֵי כָזָב.4 The wicked are estranged from the womb; the speakers of lies go astray as soon as they are born.
ה חֲמַת-לָמוֹ, כִּדְמוּת חֲמַת-נָחָשׁ; כְּמוֹ-פֶתֶן חֵרֵשׁ, יַאְטֵם אָזְנוֹ.5 Their venom is like the venom of a serpent; they are like the deaf asp that stoppeth her ear;
ו אֲשֶׁר לֹא-יִשְׁמַע, לְקוֹל מְלַחֲשִׁים; חוֹבֵר חֲבָרִים מְחֻכָּם.6 Which hearkeneth not to the voice of charmers, or of the most cunning binder of spells.
ז אֱלֹהִים--הֲרָס שִׁנֵּימוֹ בְּפִימוֹ; מַלְתְּעוֹת כְּפִירִים, נְתֹץ יְהוָה.7 Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth; break out the cheek-teeth of the young lions, O LORD.
ח יִמָּאֲסוּ כְמוֹ-מַיִם, יִתְהַלְּכוּ-לָמוֹ;
יִדְרֹךְ חִצָּו, כְּמוֹ יִתְמֹלָלוּ.8 Let them melt away as water that runneth apace; {N}
when he aimeth his arrows, let them be as though they were cut off.
ט כְּמוֹ שַׁבְּלוּל, תֶּמֶס יַהֲלֹךְ; נֵפֶל אֵשֶׁת, בַּל-חָזוּ שָׁמֶשׁ.9 Let them be as a snail which melteth and passeth away; like the untimely births of a woman, that have not seen the sun.
י בְּטֶרֶם, יָבִינוּ סִּירֹתֵכֶם אָטָד; כְּמוֹ-חַי כְּמוֹ-חָרוֹן, יִשְׂעָרֶנּוּ.10 Before your pots can feel the thorns, He will sweep it away with a whirlwind, the raw and the burning alike.
יא יִשְׂמַח צַדִּיק, כִּי-חָזָה נָקָם; פְּעָמָיו יִרְחַץ, בְּדַם הָרָשָׁע.11 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance; he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.
יב וְיֹאמַר אָדָם, אַךְ-פְּרִי לַצַּדִּיק; אַךְ יֵשׁ-אֱלֹהִים, שֹׁפְטִים בָּאָרֶץ.12 And men shall say: 'Verily there is a reward for the righteous; verily there is a God that judgeth in the earth.'

 

[pinacled]

If you say so. The jury is still out on that in my opinion.


Exercise caution when swinging a sword or you may poke an eye out.

What does the Psalms say about “conceived in iniquity“?
What does the Psalms say about “Liars from birth”?
What does Genesis say about man’s heart continuously desiring evil?

Where does scripture say “except for cute little babies”?

In address to your last que.
A wicked generation was destroyed except for the 8 that were righteous.

ח וְנֹחַ, מָצָא חֵן בְּעֵינֵי יְהוָה. {פ}8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. {P}ט אֵלֶּה, תּוֹלְדֹת נֹחַ--נֹחַ אִישׁ צַדִּיק תָּמִים הָיָה, בְּדֹרֹתָיו: אֶת-הָאֱלֹהִים, הִתְהַלֶּךְ-נֹחַ.9 These are the generations of Noah. Noah was in his generations a man righteous and whole-hearted; Noah walked with God.]

So why are you cursing children?

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.

When did you teach your child to lie?

I was fully capable of dishonesty at a very young age without any special training.

For example; when I was a pre-schooler back in the late 1940s, there wasn't as yet
any daytime television. Well; my favorite children's program came on at 5:00 pm.
It featured a marionette cowboy with little six shooters. So one day I got the bright
idea to adjust the clock sitting on the tv ahead so my mom would think it was time
to turn on my cowboy. However, the only thing to watch before 5:00 pm back then
was a test pattern so it wasn't very long before mom caught on to the ruse.
_

 

[atpollard]

Psalms 51 is about David's sin of adultery.

Far as I can see is about the philistines

In address to your last que.

What gets us into trouble is not what we don’t know,
It’s what we know for sure that just ain’t so.

 

[pinacled]

What gets us into trouble is not what we don’t know,
It’s what we know for sure that just ain’t so.

Who is we?