Fallen Nature Testing Station

[Odë:hgöd]

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The creator, by means of precognition, knew in advance that if He brought human
life into existence as planned; He would eventually be destroying much of it in a
global deluge. He went ahead and created human life as planned anyway.

Also by means of precognition, the creator knew in advance that if He brought
human life into existence as planned; He would be torturing much of it in Hell and
eventually destroying much of it in a lake of brimstone. He went ahead and created
human life as planned anyway.

If the creator's decision to bring human life into existence as planned seems
unreasonable, and maybe even a touch fiendish and insane, then you test positive
for the fallen nature.
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[Lamb]

Thread has been moved to World Religion & Speculative Theology for saying "He would be torturing much of it in Hell" because God is not torturing man in hell.

 

[JRT]

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The creator, by means of precognition, knew in advance that if He brought human
life into existence as planned; He would eventually be destroying much of it in a
global deluge. He went ahead and created human life as planned anyway.

Also by means of precognition, the creator knew in advance that if He brought
human life into existence as planned; He would be torturing much of it in Hell and
eventually destroying much of it in a lake of brimstone. He went ahead and created
human life as planned anyway.

If the creator's decision to bring human life into existence as planned seems
unreasonable, and maybe even a touch fiendish and insane, then you test positive
for the fallen nature.
_

Very cleverly set up! But what is this fallen nature that you speak of?

 

[Odë:hgöd]

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The human mind consists of consciousness and sub-consciousness. The sub area is
where we our minds store suppressed thoughts, feelings, and desires; in other
words: things we'd just as soon forget rather than think about.

For example: most Christians cannot admit, even to themselves, their honest
opinions about God because those opinions are not only unacceptable, but also
unthinkable. Those thoughts and feelings about God are so disturbing that
sometimes when one leaks out for us to contemplate, it actually makes us wince,
possibly even shiver; and sometimes even momentarily close our eyes and grit our
teeth.

I started this thread as a self-test for the fallen nature. The results are useful only
when people are honest with themselves. For example:

If you were a creator, and by means of precognition knew in advance that the
human life you were thinking about bringing into existence would one day require
you to exterminate almost the entire batch in a deluge-- men, women, underage
children, infants, handicapped folk, and senior citizens (not to mention birds, bugs,
and beasts) --would you willfully and deliberately go ahead and bring all that life
into existence anyway knowing full well in advance that your own hand would
eventually be killing them by means of a massive die-off?

In my honest opinion (I assume we're all being honest here) no reasonable person,
with normal sensitivities, would ever knowingly jeopardize so much life just so they
could have their very own sandbox to play in.

• Rev 4:11 . . O Lord our God . . you created everything, and it is for your pleasure
that they exist and were created.

My opinion insinuates that the creator is an unreasonable person whose sensitivities
fall in the abnormal range. What does my opinion say about me? Well; obviously it
says that I test positive for the fallen nature.

• Rom 8:7 . .The sinful mind is hostile to God.

FAQ: I am sometimes secretly offended, even disgusted, by the way God goes about
His business. Does that mean there is no hope for me?

A: Heb 9:1-14 teaches that Christ's blood serves to sanitize our minds; and we only
have to undergo that form of sanitation just once and it's good for all time; we
never have to repeat the process.

FAQ: Christ's blood can stop my mind from thinking bad thoughts about God?

A: No, you can expect that those kinds of thoughts will continue to be a nuisance;
but they will never again be a barrier between you and God. Christ will make sure
of that. The remainder of the ninth chapter of Hebrews bears that out.

FAQ: So, how do I go about obtaining this mental sanitation about which you
speak?

A: That's easy. Find yourself a place and simply speak up, admitting to God that
you have a sinful mind and would like to take advantage of His son's blood to
sanitize it. It sometimes helps to cover your face with your hands to give you a
sense of privacy between you and God. I pray like that all the time; it works for
me.
_

 

[Bluezone777]

Good thing none of our opinions matter one bit as the only thing that matters is what it is in God's word as any statment made by anyone is either going to agree with His word or be false. We walk in faith by knowing God's character to be good always so you can walk with confidence through life because if you know God is good then anything he puts you through is ultimately going to be good even if you can't make sense of why it is good for you to have or not have something or someone in your life at any time.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

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Regarding the forbidden fruit incident depicted in the 3rd chapter of the book of
Genesis:

• Rom 5:12 . .When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adam's sin
brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.

FAQ: How is it fair to charge the entire human race with the sin of one man?

A: I don't know.

FAQ: Why do I have to die for something I didn't do?

A: I don't know.

FAQ: I was made a sinner before I was even born?

A: Yes.

REACTION: That makes me angry!

RESPONSE: You should be angry, and if you're not, then I really have to question
your moral values, i.e. your sense of justice, and your perception of right and
wrong.

REACTION: Romans 5:12 is a mistake. According to Ezek 18:20, children are not
responsible for their father's sins.

RESPONSE: According to Deut 5:2-4 and Gal 3:17, the laws of God are not
retroactive, i.e. Ezek 18:20 was enacted too late to have any say in Adam's life.

FAQ: Does my anger in this matter mean that I test positive for the fallen nature?

A: You test positive.

• Rom 8:7 . .The sinful mind is hostile to God.
_

 

[Bluezone777]

We are not charged with his sin as we all inherited a sin nature from Adam and thus we sin as a result of it. it was what Adam " won" for us by disobeying God and sinning against Him so we are given it as it is w hat is owed to all of us as he passed it on to us. We aren't given it by virtue of earning it much like how any inheritance works.

You aren't dying for anyone's sins but your own. You inherited a sin nature from Adam but every sin you committed against God was your own doing and it is that which you are getting punished for.This is why Jesus is referred to as a savior because He gets out of our hopeless situation by making us right with God when we had no way to do it ourselves. Without him, we would be hopelessly doomed without Him. Jesus doesn't get anyone out of their debt as he simply pays for it so when you stand before God on judgment day, it will show that you are without a debt to pay for not that you didn't have one but Jesus paid it for you so you don't have to do it in hell in which all who end up there are eternally separated from God so they can make their payment which for them will take an eternity to pay for.

God didn't make anyone a sinner as you became one because of what you inherited from Adam. You only got what you rightfully deserved which was a sin nature because Adam passed it on to all future generations as an inheritance. An inheritance doesn't need to be something good or wanted as it i can easily be something unwanted but whether you want it or not is besides the point as you have to contend with it one way or the other and that should be your focus rather then being mad or trying to assign blame for why it is there in the first place.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

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There's a significant element of difference between Adam's actions and Christ's.
Everyone gets slammed with the consequences related to Adam's act; whereas the
blessings related to Jesus' act are limited to the few that are chosen from among
the many that are called.

The above makes no sense to a reasonable person because if Christ died for
everybody, then why isn't everybody chosen? And if it's God's will that everybody
be saved; then why aren't they?

Christians have invented a variety of canned apologies with which to respond to
those kinds of questions, while in the backs of their minds struggling with the
lunacy of it all.
_

 

[Bluezone777]

An inheritance is given to a person based on who they are not who the giver is while a gift is given because of who the giver is not who the recipient is. Adam's work created an inheritance that was given to all of Adam's descendants because of who they are in relation to Adam while Christ's work garnered a gift that could be given to whoever he wanted to give it to. Since a gift is not given becasue of merit, God has no obligation to give it to everyone or anyone at all as whoever gets it is not getting it becasue they earned it and anyone not getting it is not getting it because of something they failed to do to earn it.


It is not for us to know the answer to every "why" or "how" question as the righteous are to live by faith and doing so requires you to not know all the answers. The way to ending the questions is not by knowing the answer to them all but rather through the relationship you have with God through Jesus. Through Jesus, our relationship if we have one grows over time and the more we know who He and God is, the less we become concerned with knowing all the why and hows of life because we know who God is and that is enough for us.

The unrighteous who live among us will never be satisfied with our answers because we don't ultimately have them all and since they live by sight will never find the sort of peace the Bible speaks of because that only comes through a relationship with God through Jesus.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

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NOTICE: Let's not use this thread as a venue for apologetics. There is no need to
defend God because He isn't under attack here.

I set this thread up for posting some samples of the fallen nature's thinking so folks
could test themselves for the condition; and that's all. Apologetics are not only off
topic but disruptive too, and only succeed in muddying the waters.
_

 

[Odë:hgöd]

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• Gen 16:5 . . And Sarai said to Abram: The wrong done me is your fault! I myself
put my maid in your bosom; and now that she sees that she is expecting, I am
lowered in her esteem. The Lord decide between you and me!

Sarai attempted to take the high moral ground by insinuating that had Abram been
a real man, he would've seen that sleeping with Hagar was a bad idea and refused.
Therefore it was his fault for not putting a stop to her idea before things got out of
hand.

God gets accused on that basis all the time, i.e. if God were really as wise, loving,
omniscient, and all-powerful as He's alleged to be, then He would never have put
the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden to begin with; and when
the Serpent tempted Eve, He would have stepped in and put a stop to it before
things got out of hand. Therefore it's not the human race's fault for being what it is:
it's God's fault for not protecting us from our own stupidity.

From a strictly fallen-nature perspective; the accusation is a reasonable complaint
as I'm sure any of us would've done things very differently than how God went about
it.
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