Is infant baptism from the Bible?

[Lamb]

Baptism is God's work:


ARE THERE ANY INDICATIONS IN THE BIBLE THAT INFANTS WERE BAPTIZED?

Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

* Note: Circumcision was a rite associated almost exclusively with infants (eight days old). It would be odd to refer to Baptism as the “circumcision of Christ” if Baptism of infants was to be forbidden while circumcision was given almost exclusively to infants. (Note also that infants did receive Jewish proselyte baptism.)

Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Acts 16:14-15. One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message. When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home.

1 Corinthians 1:16. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.

Acts 16:33. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

* Note: Households included all members of the family (which usually included extended family) as well as servants and their families. For this reason, it would be unlikely that none of the households referred to above included a baby.

* Note: There is very strong historical evidence that Infant Baptism has been the common practice of the Christian Church since the first century of the Christian era, and was almost entirely unopposed until the 1500’s. For more information, see http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/journals/kastens.htm. Historical information from outside the Bible does not prove what is right, but humility would suggest that we should think twice before concluding that the whole Christian Church got it wrong for about one and a half millennia — especially when it is seen that a strong Biblical case can be made for infant Baptism.


ARE INFANTS IN NEED OF THE BLESSINGS THAT BAPTISM GIVES?

Psalm 51:5. Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Ecclesiastes 7:20. For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.

Romans 3:20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

John 3:6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


3. Romans 8:7. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

Ephesians 2:1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins.



ARE INFANTS CAPABLE OF RECEIVING GOD’S BLESSINGS?

Luke 1:15. For he [John the Baptist] will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.

Luke 1:41-44. When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. And she cried out with a loud voice and said, 'Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me? For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.'"

* John the Baptist is an example of the Holy Spirit being active in an infant. Since Baptism is associated with receiving the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38), this indicates that infants can receive this benefit of Baptism. We are not to deny this gift to children, but are to bring them to Him for this blessing.

Luke 18:15-17. And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. But Jesus called for them, saying, 'Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.''

* Note: The Greek word translated “babies” in this passage (brephe) referred to children in the womb and newborns. These were babies, not older children.

* Note: Our Lord Jesus clearly states that infants can receive the kingdom of God. Since they were sinful from conception, and because that which is born of the flesh is flesh (which is hostile to God), this means that it must also be possible for infants to be born of the Spirit — otherwise, they could not receive the kingdom of God.

Matthew 18:1-6. At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?'' And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."

Matthew 21:15-16. But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple area, "Hosanna to the Son of David," they were indignant. "Do you hear what these children are saying?" they asked him. "Yes," replied Jesus, "have you never read, 'From the lips of children and infants you have ordained praise'?"

* Note: Since we already know from God’s Word that infants can receive the Holy Spirit and can receive the kingdom of God, it should not surprise us that Jesus here refers to small children believing in Him (which could also be translated as having faith in Him) and children and infants praising Him. It is the Holy Spirit who creates faith, and the kingdom of God is received by faith.

* Note: Since Jesus says that small children can believe in Him, we can properly speak of small children who are believers in Christ — “Christians.” If they are capable of being Christians, they should not be denied Baptism.

* Note: This (small children being believers) is reflected in early Christian tomb inscriptions. The faith of infants is also referred to in the writings of important teachers in the early church (such as Augustine). Following are quotes from a few pastors and theologians about the faith of these little ones who believe in Christ:



Dr. Martin Chemnitz: "Although we can neither understand nor explain in words what may be the nature of that action or operation of the Holy Spirit in infants who are baptized, nevertheless the Word of God leaves no doubt that such action and operation does occur. This which the Holy Spirit produces in infants we call faith and say that infants believe."

Dr. Johann Gerhard: "Even though we do not understand what all takes place with faith in the tiny, little children, yet we should hold the Word of God in such reverence that we do not deny what it so clearly witnesses to regarding the faith of little children."

Dr. David Scaer: "Surely, if infant brains can process human language and make sense out of their environment, they can process the divine language which proceeds from the mouth of God and calls to faith. It would be strange to assert that the words of the Holy Spirit lack the efficaciousness which human language has with infants."

Dr. William Arndt: “If the question is asked how an infant, unconscious of what is happening around it and unable to understand the meaning of Baptism, can believe, the answer is that not we but the Holy Spirit creates faith in the child receiving Holy Baptism and that He can perform that miracle and take up His dwelling in children as well as in people who are grown up.”

Dr. Robert Kolb: “The Word of God is powerful enough, when uttered, to change even a godless heart, which is no less responsive and helpless than any infant.”

Dr. Lowell Green: “God does not need human cooperation. In fact, faith is the setting aside of our own activity in order that God may work in us.”


* Note: Those who say that a lack of mature reason precludes infants from having faith are encouraged to consider what the Bible says about natural man’s reason and faith -- see, for example: 1 Corinthians 1:18-31, 1 Corinthians 2:14, 1 Corinthians 3:18-20, Romans 8:6-7, 1 Timothy 6:20-21. True wisdom does not precede faith but is given by God and received by the faithful as a gift. The reasoning of an unbelieving adult is not a prerequisite to faith, but rather fights against faith.

 

[Josiah]

Baptism is God's work:


ARE THERE ANY INDICATIONS IN THE BIBLE THAT INFANTS WERE BAPTIZED?

Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

* Note: Circumcision was a rite associated almost exclusively with infants (eight days old). It would be odd to refer to Baptism as the “circumcision of Christ” if Baptism of infants was to be forbidden while circumcision was given almost exclusively to infants. (Note also that infants did receive Jewish proselyte baptism.)

Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Acts 16:14-15. One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message. When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home.

1 Corinthians 1:16. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.

Acts 16:33. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

* Note: Households included all members of the family (which usually included extended family) as well as servants and their families. For this reason, it would be unlikely that none of the households referred to above included a baby.

* Note: There is very strong historical evidence that Infant Baptism has been the common practice of the Christian Church since the first century of the Christian era, and was almost entirely unopposed until the 1500’s. For more information, see http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/journals/kastens.htm. Historical information from outside the Bible does not prove what is right, but humility would suggest that we should think twice before concluding that the whole Christian Church got it wrong for about one and a half millennia — especially when it is seen that a strong Biblical case can be made for infant Baptism.


ARE INFANTS IN NEED OF THE BLESSINGS THAT BAPTISM GIVES?

Psalm 51:5. Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Ecclesiastes 7:20. For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.

Romans 3:20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

John 3:6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


3. Romans 8:7. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

Ephesians 2:1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins.



ARE INFANTS CAPABLE OF RECEIVING GOD’S BLESSINGS?

Luke 1:15. For he [John the Baptist] will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.

Luke 1:41-44. When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. And she cried out with a loud voice and said, 'Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me? For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.'"

* John the Baptist is an example of the Holy Spirit being active in an infant. Since Baptism is associated with receiving the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38), this indicates that infants can receive this benefit of Baptism. We are not to deny this gift to children, but are to bring them to Him for this blessing.

Luke 18:15-17. And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. But Jesus called for them, saying, 'Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.''

* Note: The Greek word translated “babies” in this passage (brephe) referred to children in the womb and newborns. These were babies, not older children.

* Note: Our Lord Jesus clearly states that infants can receive the kingdom of God. Since they were sinful from conception, and because that which is born of the flesh is flesh (which is hostile to God), this means that it must also be possible for infants to be born of the Spirit — otherwise, they could not receive the kingdom of God.

Matthew 18:1-6. At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?'' And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."

Matthew 21:15-16. But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple area, "Hosanna to the Son of David," they were indignant. "Do you hear what these children are saying?" they asked him. "Yes," replied Jesus, "have you never read, 'From the lips of children and infants you have ordained praise'?"

* Note: Since we already know from God’s Word that infants can receive the Holy Spirit and can receive the kingdom of God, it should not surprise us that Jesus here refers to small children believing in Him (which could also be translated as having faith in Him) and children and infants praising Him. It is the Holy Spirit who creates faith, and the kingdom of God is received by faith.

* Note: Since Jesus says that small children can believe in Him, we can properly speak of small children who are believers in Christ — “Christians.” If they are capable of being Christians, they should not be denied Baptism.

* Note: This (small children being believers) is reflected in early Christian tomb inscriptions. The faith of infants is also referred to in the writings of important teachers in the early church (such as Augustine). Following are quotes from a few pastors and theologians about the faith of these little ones who believe in Christ:



Dr. Martin Chemnitz: "Although we can neither understand nor explain in words what may be the nature of that action or operation of the Holy Spirit in infants who are baptized, nevertheless the Word of God leaves no doubt that such action and operation does occur. This which the Holy Spirit produces in infants we call faith and say that infants believe."

Dr. Johann Gerhard: "Even though we do not understand what all takes place with faith in the tiny, little children, yet we should hold the Word of God in such reverence that we do not deny what it so clearly witnesses to regarding the faith of little children."

Dr. David Scaer: "Surely, if infant brains can process human language and make sense out of their environment, they can process the divine language which proceeds from the mouth of God and calls to faith. It would be strange to assert that the words of the Holy Spirit lack the efficaciousness which human language has with infants."

Dr. William Arndt: “If the question is asked how an infant, unconscious of what is happening around it and unable to understand the meaning of Baptism, can believe, the answer is that not we but the Holy Spirit creates faith in the child receiving Holy Baptism and that He can perform that miracle and take up His dwelling in children as well as in people who are grown up.”

Dr. Robert Kolb: “The Word of God is powerful enough, when uttered, to change even a godless heart, which is no less responsive and helpless than any infant.”

Dr. Lowell Green: “God does not need human cooperation. In fact, faith is the setting aside of our own activity in order that God may work in us.”


* Note: Those who say that a lack of mature reason precludes infants from having faith are encouraged to consider what the Bible says about natural man’s reason and faith -- see, for example: 1 Corinthians 1:18-31, 1 Corinthians 2:14, 1 Corinthians 3:18-20, Romans 8:6-7, 1 Timothy 6:20-21. True wisdom does not precede faith but is given by God and received by the faithful as a gift. The reasoning of an unbelieving adult is not a prerequisite to faith, but rather fights against faith.

Good stuff...


We "preached the Word" to our son before he was born..... babies still in the womb can hear. We sang to him, mostly Christian kid songs.

 

[Josiah]

Infants cannot make a conscious decision.

No one can decide to have spiritual life, the Holy Spirit, faith. Not the 42 year old with 5 Ph.D's, an IQ of 210 and every word of the Bible memorized. Not John the Baptist still in his mother's womb. The "default" position is spiritual death (and the dead can't do much, at least not much that's good' no dead person has given themselves life), it really doesn't matter how old the person's flesh is or how big their dead brain is.


NO ONE can give self faith, life, justification, and the Holy Spirit. It's not a function of age or IQ or the flesh (old or young).... Your whole apologetic here is simply unbiblical.


Some verses:


1 Corinthians 12:3

1 Corinthians 2:14

John 3:27

Ephesians 2:8-9

1 Corinthians 1:18

1 Corinthians 1:21-24

2 Corinthians 4:3-4

Romans 9:15

Romans 3:11

Matthew 11:27

Galatians 4:8-9

Psalm 58:3

Ephesians 2:12-13

Ephesians 2:3

Romans 3:10-12

Deuteronomy 29:2-4

John 1:12-13

Acts 16:14

Philippians 1:29

Acts 18:27

Romans 3:27

There are many more.....




.

 

[FredVB]

No one can decide to have spiritual life, the Holy Spirit, faith. Not the 42 year old with 5 Ph.D's, an IQ of 210 and every word of the Bible memorized. Not John the Baptist still in his mother's womb. The "default" position is spiritual death (and the dead can't do much, at least not much that's good' no dead person has given themselves life), it really doesn't matter how old the person's flesh is or how big their dead brain is.

NO ONE can give self faith, life, justification, and the Holy Spirit. It's not a function of age or IQ or the flesh (old or young).... Your whole apologetic here is simply unbiblical.

It is a pretty heavy Calvinist position to deny all human responsibility and accountability. There are yet these meaningful scripture passages that are relevant. Acts 17:30, 2 Peter 3:9, Joshua 24:15, Job 34:4, Proverbs 1:29, Isaiah 56:4.

Infants are certainly not with the capacity to choose in these ways, and parental care is truly needed for them. Water baptisms in the Bible were believers' baptisms, for those repenting and confessing their faith in Christ. Baptisms are wasted on infants, and may be deadly to them, as it in fact has been. Commitment to Christ is needed. Just being baptized regardless of that gives no assurance in any way. Mark 16:16, believing is essential, also Acts 2:41, Acts 8:12, Acts 10:47, Acts 18:8.

 

[Josiah]

Infants are certainly not with the capacity to choose in these ways

No one gives themselves the gift of faith and spiritual life.

Water baptisms in the Bible were believers' baptisms

Well, that can't be proven. We have "family baptisms" where "everyone in the household" was baptized and we know NOTHING of all the ages, etc. of the people in those households. It COULD be all of them had celebrated 12 or 15 or 18 birthdays (however many you think is mandated) but there's NOTHING in the text that remotely suggests that..... it COULD be all of them recited the Sinner's Prayer and went down for an altar call but there's NOTHING in the text that remotely suggests that.

But there's another problem with that apologetic. We are NOT required to follow what is DONE in the Bible. If I went to your church on a Sunday, probably 99% of what I witnessed is not illustrated as done in the Bible - yet your church does it. Or switch to Communion..... I assure you, in the Bible it was NOT celebrated with little plastic cups filled with Welch's Grape Juice and little cup up pieces of Weber's White Bread passed around to everyone in the pews (kids, seekers, etc). Unless you are willing to do NOTHING not illustrated as done in the Bible, this doesn't hold.... if you don't follow your own rubric, it's invalid to require others to.





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[Lazy Suesun]

There's an old saying in Soteriology circles that goes, you can justify any belief if you search the Bible long enough. Even that which contradicts itself.

People who believe infants need be baptized to be saved, are the same people that believe God sends miscarried babies, new borns, infants, and children, to Hell.
Of course they'd then champion baptizing babies to avoid that fate. The idea is likely derived from scripture that does not prescribe "adult" to those passages pertaining to repentance and baptism.

What Does the Bible Say About Infant Baptism?

Bible verses about Infant Baptism

www.openbible.info

Though it can be observed that Calvinism, Reformed Protestantism, would necessarily teach that the unborn/miscarried, babies, newborns, infants, are fated for Hell when they are not predestined by God for his Salvation as members of the Elect.

That's not actually in scripture either. Jesus said, we must become like unto little children to see the kingdom of Heaven. That in itself does not say we must be Baptized like unto little children. We must become like little children. Little children are without guile, trust unwaveringly, and hold love before animus, in their hearts. They are sinless.

 

[Lamb]

There's an old saying in Soteriology circles that goes, you can justify any belief if you search the Bible long enough. Even that which contradicts itself.

People who believe infants need be baptized to be saved, are the same people that believe God sends miscarried babies, new borns, infants, and children, to Hell.
Of course they'd then champion baptizing babies to avoid that fate. The idea is likely derived from scripture that does not prescribe "adult" to those passages pertaining to repentance and baptism.

What Does the Bible Say About Infant Baptism?

Bible verses about Infant Baptism

www.openbible.info

Though it can be observed that Calvinism, Reformed Protestantism, would necessarily teach that the unborn/miscarried, babies, newborns, infants, are fated for Hell when they are not predestined by God for his Salvation as members of the Elect.

That's not actually in scripture either. Jesus said, we must become like unto little children to see the kingdom of Heaven. That in itself does not say we must be Baptized like unto little children. We must become like little children. Little children are without guile, trust unwaveringly, and hold love before animus, in their hearts. They are sinless.

If babies were sinless then they wouldn't need a savior.

 

[Lazy Suesun]

If babies were sinless then they wouldn't need a savior.

They are sinless if you accept what God defines as, sin.
When their souls come from God who gave it, what makes you think they would need to be saved having been created by God first?
Unless you believe God damns newborns in the womb.

Exodus 32:32-33; Deuteronomy 24:16; 2 Kings 14:6; 2 Chronicles 25:4; Jeremiah 31:30; Ezekiel 18:20

Are Children Born With Sin? - Apologetics Press

Have you ever seen the face of a newborn child, touched the soft skin of his rose-colored cheeks, and sensed his innocence when looking into his beautiful eyes? In stark contrast, Catholic teaching alleges that “small infants are sinful!” The Catechism of the Catholic Church declares: Born with...

www.apologeticspress.org

“Unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 18:3)

 

[Lazy Suesun]

Romans 10: 17 Consequently faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the preached word[t] of Christ.[u]
Word = ῥῆμα (rhēma)
Strong: G4487

GK: G4839

that which is spoken; declaration, saying, speech, word, Mt. 12:36; 26:75; Mk. 9:32; 14:72; a command, mandate, direction, Lk. 3:2; 5:5; a promise, Lk. 1:38; 2:29; a prediction, prophecy, 2 Pet. 3:2; a doctrine of God or Christ, Jn. 3:34; 5:47; 6:63, 68; Acts 5:20; an accusation, charge, crimination, Mt. 5:11; 27:14; from the Hebrew, a thing, Mt. 4:4; Lk. 4:4; a matter, affair, transaction, business, Mt. 18:16; Lk. 1:65; 2 Cor. 13:1


Romans 1:
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.




John 1:
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

 

[Lamb]

They are sinless if you accept what God defines as, sin.
When their souls come from God who gave it, what makes you think they would need to be saved having been created by God first?
Unless you believe God damns newborns in the womb.

Exodus 32:32-33; Deuteronomy 24:16; 2 Kings 14:6; 2 Chronicles 25:4; Jeremiah 31:30; Ezekiel 18:20

Are Children Born With Sin? - Apologetics Press

Have you ever seen the face of a newborn child, touched the soft skin of his rose-colored cheeks, and sensed his innocence when looking into his beautiful eyes? In stark contrast, Catholic teaching alleges that “small infants are sinful!” The Catechism of the Catholic Church declares: Born with...

www.apologeticspress.org

“Unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 18:3)

If they were sinless then Jesus didn't need to come to earth to be the spotless lamb to die on the cross. Any one of them could have done it. But none were worthy...which means no baby is sinless.

 

[Lazy Suesun]

I feel sorry not just for your theology but for your children, the newborn especially, if you have children.

 

[Josiah]

If babies were sinless then they wouldn't need a savior.

.... and the best way to insure they go to haven would be to murder them the day before their X birthday (you know, the birthday the "anti-child"baptism folks will NEVER tell you actually is). If they died before they had any sin, they would thus not need forgiveness or the Savior and would go straight to heaven. Why allow them to live through that unknown birthday when they suddenly become a fallen sinner headed for hell unless they chant the Sinner's Prayer?


And of course, since the Bible flat out says that for humans, death is the punishment for sin.... well, then God is wrong to take the lives of people before their X birthday since they have no sin until that day and thus God is unjust to punishment them with death when they are sinless. A very unjust God.



.

 

[Lamb]

I feel sorry not just for your theology but for your children, the newborn especially, if you have children.

Why do you feel sorry for us? Didn't you agree that there is Original Sin? That applies to everyone at conception so that means we all are in need of a Savior. Thankfully God provided one for us.

 

[Lazy Suesun]

.... and the best way to insure they go to haven would be to murder them the day before their X birthday (you know, the birthday the "anti-child"baptism folks will NEVER tell you actually is). If they died before they had any sin, they would thus not need forgiveness or the Savior and would go straight to heaven. Why allow them to live through that unknown birthday when they suddenly become a fallen sinner headed for hell unless they chant the Sinner's Prayer?


And of course, since the Bible flat out says that for humans, death is the punishment for sin.... well, then God is wrong to take the lives of people before their X birthday since they have no sin until that day and thus God is unjust to punishment them with death when they are sinless. A very unjust God.



.

My mind won't let me even conceive of a response to something so darkly conjured as that.

Infant Baptism is not in scripture. What damned infants even in the womb doctrine must ignore are a number of scriptures , God's words, in order to sustain itself .
James 4:17 "Therefore to him who knows to do good, and does not do it, to him it is sin."
Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor shall the father bear the guilt of the son." Which means no one inherited Adam's sin. The original sin was when sin entered the world through one man, Adam. If we inherit Adam's sin, then all the scriptures that say we are responsible for our own sins and do not inherit them from our parents, are what? To be ignored? False?

Ezekiel 28:15 "You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. "

Infants cannot choose to follow Jesus. "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins." Acts 2:38. That was Peter's response when people to whom he was ministering asked what they must do to be saved.
Infants are incapable of that.

"The soul who sins shall die." Notice what's missing in that verse? The soul that is born damned, inherits sin, shall die.

 

[Josiah]

Infant Baptism is not in scripture.

Nor are automobiles or Air Conditioning or Democracy. So what?

Anti-Padeobaptism (baptism for ONLY those over the age of we-won't-tell-you) is not in Scripture. We have NOT ONE example of ANYONE being denied baptism because they had not yet celebrated their we-won't-tell-you-which birthday (indeed, we don't have even one example of ANYONE being denied baptism for ANY reason). Of course, abortion is not found in the Bible either. Or atomic bombs.

Infants cannot choose to follow Jesus.

No one can. "NO ONE is even capable of saying the words "Jesus is Lord" unless the Holy Spirit so causes." Look it up. It's in the Good Book. NO ONE. It doesn't say, "no one who hath not yet celebrated their we-won't-tell-you-which birthday is not capable" it says NO ONE is.

"Faith is the free gift of God" says in the Good Book. Nowhere does it say, "Faith is something we give ourselves if we are smart enough, willing to do God a favor and hath celebrated our we-won't-tell-you-which birthday." GIFT. Not "personal achievement."

"Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins." Acts 2:38.

True, but his audience was not infants. And you are making a very silly grammatical mistake. In Koine Greek (as in modern English) the word "kai" ("and") does NOT mandate or even imply chronological order. In Koine Greek, there are FIVE different connective words (typically translated as "then") which to varying degrees implies, suggests or mandates ORDER, SEQUENCE, chronology. But none of those words appears in the same sentence with the word "Baptism" or "baptize." The word here is AND. Kai. It is THE MOST generic connective word in the entire Greek language. I got up this morning and went to the bathroom and made coffee and pet the bunny." But I did NOT do them in that order. You are simply demanding that the Holy Spirit used the wrong word in Acts 2:38, that He SHOULD have used a word at least remotely implying sequence (and 5 were available to Him) but goofed and used the one that by no means at all remotely indicates such.




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[Particular]

My mind won't let me even conceive of a response to something so darkly conjured as that.

Infant Baptism is not in scripture. What damned infants even in the womb doctrine must ignore are a number of scriptures , God's words, in order to sustain itself .
James 4:17 "Therefore to him who knows to do good, and does not do it, to him it is sin."
Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor shall the father bear the guilt of the son." Which means no one inherited Adam's sin. The original sin was when sin entered the world through one man, Adam. If we inherit Adam's sin, then all the scriptures that say we are responsible for our own sins and do not inherit them from our parents, are what? To be ignored? False?

Ezekiel 28:15 "You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. "

Infants cannot choose to follow Jesus. "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins." Acts 2:38. That was Peter's response when people to whom he was ministering asked what they must do to be saved.
Infants are incapable of that.

"The soul who sins shall die." Notice what's missing in that verse? The soul that is born damned, inherits sin, shall die.

None of your verses have anything to do with infants or with with baptism. Merely plucking verses out of context to try prooftext your assertion is irresponsible misuse of God's word. It is an abomination that false prophets and Satan use to falsely teach. Peter warns Christians of such behavior in his second letter.

Paul clearly recognizes that the rebellion of Adam lead to corruption in all of Adams offspring.

Romans 5:18-19 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.

Do infants go to hell? God doesn't tell us. God may, by His Sovereign decree, choose to graciously pardon the curse of Adam in infants. King David seems to indicate this.

2 Samuel 12:19-23 But when David saw that his servants were whispering together, David understood that the child was dead. And David said to his servants, “Is the child dead?” They said, “He is dead.” Then David arose from the earth and washed and anointed himself and changed his clothes. And he went into the house of the Lord and worshiped. He then went to his own house. And when he asked, they set food before him, and he ate. Then his servants said to him, “What is this thing that you have done? You fasted and wept for the child while he was alive; but when the child died, you arose and ate food.” He said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, ‘Who knows whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.”

As for infant baptism being a means of grace, Roman Catholic and Lutheran tradition teaches this, but biblical text does not. Like your poor prooftexting, so Lutherans and Roman Catholics abuse scripture to prooftext what they fantasize about infants and baptism. They cling to traditions, not scripture on this issue. Ultimately, it's a panacea for them should their infant child die. They tell themselves happy thoughts by thinking the water baptism of their child somehow moved God to be gracious instead of just trusting that God is a gracious God toward infants.

But, back to your Pelagian heresy...your assertion that infants are born without the curse of Adam is entirely false. Augustine thoroughly destroyed Pelagius assertions, which you now mimic. You have no theological leg to stand on. I suggest you give it up. Your assertion is proven false.

 

[Josiah]

None of your verses have anything to do with infants or with with baptism. Merely plucking verses out of context to try prooftext your assertion is irresponsible misuse of God's word. It is an abomination that false prophets and Satan use to falsely teach. Peter warns Christians of such behavior in his second letter.

Paul clearly recognizes that the rebellion of Adam lead to corruption in all of Adams offspring.

Romans 5:18-19 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.

Do infants go to hell? God doesn't tell us. God may, by His Sovereign decree, choose to graciously pardon the curse of Adam in infants. King David seems to indicate this.

1. Interesting. The verse you quoted says "ALL" (I know you believe that word actually means "an unknowable few" but Greek scholars disagree with you) and then "MEN." Actually, the word here is THE most generic word for homo sapiens and is NOT limited by age.


2. There is no verse that says, "Those under the age of no-one-knows don't go hell but go to heaven regardess of the Cross or faith" The point seems to be those with FAITH go to heaven, and I think a case can be made that those without faith in Christ do not.


3. I'd like to see the verse that says what you do: "God chose to graciously pardon the curse of Adam in infants regard;less of faith.' Could you give the verse that says that? Of course, the OT reference nowhere says that but please quote the one that does.

Lutherans and Roman Catholics prooftext

Perhaps. Seems better than proving you have NOTHING....absolutely nothing except clinging to a small, new tradition of the Anabaptists, as you do.

Better, perhaps, than having NOTHING that says, "Thou canst NOT baptize any unless they first hath celebrated their we-won't-tell-you-which birthday!" Or "Thou canst NOT baptize any unless they hath adequately proven they hath chosen Jesus as their personal savior and chanteth the Sinner's Prayer!" Or "Thou canst NOT baptize any unless every cell of their body is entirely immersed under water." You know, the Anabaptists traditions you parrot on this, NONE of which can you find even one verse that confirms your new small tradition you parrot.

But, back to your Pelagian heresy...your assertion that infants are born without the curse of Adam is entirely false. Augustine thoroughly destroyed Pelagius assertions, which you now mimic. You have no theological leg to stand on. I suggest you give it up. Your assertion is proven false.

I agree. Now, I don't understand how that confirms the tradition you parrot that those under the mysterious age you keep a secret are saved without faith (a form of Universalism). The only other options are that those under that age you won't say have no need for forgiveness, which you correctly identify as unbiblical and heretical OR God provides a way for those under that age you won't say to receive faith, an option you repudiate. It seems you are most comfortable with Universalism (but only for those under the age you keep a secret - making it irrelevant).





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[Particular]

1. Interesting. The verse you quoted says "ALL" (I know you believe that word actually means "an unknowable few" but Greek scholars disagree with you) and then "MEN." Actually, the word here is THE most generic word for homo sapiens and is NOT limited by age.


2. There is no verse that says, "Those under the age of no-one-knows don't go hell but go to heaven regardess of the Cross or faith" The point seems to be those with FAITH go to heaven, and I think a case can be made that those without faith in Christ do not.


3. I'd like to see the verse that says what you do: "God chose to graciously pardon the curse of Adam in infants regard;less of faith.' Could you give the verse that says that? Of course, the OT reference nowhere says that but please quote the one that does.







Perhaps. Seems better than proving you have NOTHING....absolutely nothing except clinging to a small, new tradition of the Anabaptists, as you do.

Better, perhaps, than having NOTHING that says, "Thou canst NOT baptize any unless they first hath celebrated their we-won't-tell-you-which birthday!" Or "Thou canst NOT baptize any unless they hath adequately proven they hath chosen Jesus as their personal savior and chanteth the Sinner's Prayer!" Or "Thou canst NOT baptize any unless every cell of their body is entirely immersed under water." You know, the Anabaptists traditions you parrot on this, NONE of which can you find even one verse that confirms your new small tradition you parrot.







I agree. Now, I don't understand how that confirms the tradition you parrot that those under the mysterious age you keep a secret are saved without faith (a form of Universalism). The only other options are that those under that age you won't say have no need for forgiveness, which you correctly identify as unbiblical and heretical OR God provides a way for those under that age you won't say to receive faith, an option you repudiate. It seems you are most comfortable with Universalism (but only for those under the age you keep a secret - making it irrelevant).





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All who believe. The verses, in context, prove this assertion.

Zero verses prove infant baptism. It is a non-biblical position.

 

[NathanH83]

Noir

 

[brian100]

Infant baptism makes you a member of God's kingdom. The sooner you do it the better.

Like this:
I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. (pouring water over their head)

Mark 10
“Let the children come to me! Don't try to stop them. People who are like these little children belong to the kingdom of God.+ 15 I promise you that you cannot get into God's kingdom, unless you accept it the way a child does.” 16Then Jesus took the children in his arms and blessed them by placing his hands on them.