Did Abraham conjure up his own faith...

[Particular]

Neither. What is true is what God says.

Gospel:


Romans 8:29-39, For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. "

Mark 13:22, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible.

John 4:14, "but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

John 20:28, I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

1 Thess. 5:24, "The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

Hebrews 10:14, "because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Rev. 3:5, "I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels."



Law:

John 15:4-7, "Remain in me, and I will remain in you... If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

Rev. 2:10, "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

1 Timothy 4:1, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

Luke 8:13, "They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

John 8:31, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really My disciples."

Luke 21:19, "By standing firm you will gain life."

Hebrews 8:9, "They did not remain faithful to My covenant, and I turned away from them"

Gal. 5:4, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

Col. 1:23, "If you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel."

Hebrews 10:26, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."

2 Peter 1:8-10, "But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure."

2 Peter 3:17, "Be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."

Rev. 3:5, He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white.

Luke 12:8, "He who disowns Me before men will be disowned before the angels of God."


ALL the above are 100% true. Verbatim. No changes or "explanations"or denials or satire needed in order to make them say something other than what they do.

Read. Believe. Stop doubting and denying.




.

I believe what Jesus says.
"I will never leave you nor forsake you."
Now, if that is true, and I believe it is, then no matter how far astray his sheep wander, Jesus will find them and bring them home.

Do you believe that, or do you still think a person can outrun the hand of God?

God says he's got his chosen ones. Do you doubt that?

Finally, nothing good comes from cherry picking the word of God like you just did. Either speak in context or stop quoting. You end up with heresy using your method of buck shot.

 

[Particular]

Yup, that's God's will.... indeed it is God's will that EVERYONE be saved. Are they?

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
~ John 6:39

Perhaps you struggle with what it says. Does it say "everyone" like you falsely state? No, it doesn't. It says Jesus does not lose any the Father has given him. Those are the sheep. The ones who are predestined, as you quoted in Romans 8. The elect, chosen as the people of the promise.

So, stop falsely saying what Jesus does not say. It is not becoming of a Christian to say what God does not.

Does Jesus forsake his own, even when they go astray? Is he a shepherd who abandons those sheep who wander?

 

[Albion]

Can you fashion an argument or explanation based on your own understanding of scripture without always also relying upon the device of imputing ideas to another member which you then denounce?

 

[Particular]

Can you fashion an argument or explanation based on your own understanding of scripture without always also relying upon the device of imputing ideas to another member which you then denounce?

Can you fashion an argument without taking verses out of context?

 

[Josiah]

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.~ John 6:39

Yes, believe - and stop denying - what the Bible states. Stop insisting the Bible is so very, very often WRONG.


Gospel:


Romans 8:29-39, For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. "

Mark 13:22, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible.

John 4:14, "but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

John 20:28, I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

1 Thess. 5:24, "The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

Hebrews 10:14, "because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Rev. 3:5, "I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels."



Law:

John 15:4-7, "Remain in me, and I will remain in you... If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

Rev. 2:10, "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

1 Timothy 4:1, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

Luke 8:13, "They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

John 8:31, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really My disciples."

Luke 21:19, "By standing firm you will gain life."

Hebrews 8:9, "They did not remain faithful to My covenant, and I turned away from them"

Gal. 5:4, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

Col. 1:23, "If you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel."

2 Peter 3:17, "Be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."

Rev. 3:5, He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white.



Perhaps you disagree with God.... perhaps what the Bible SO OFTEN and SO CLEARLY says conflicts with the weird, new, almost universally rejected invention of a tiny few latter-day radical Calvinists often called "Once saved, ALWAYS saved" Perhaps you need to support this fundamental denial of the Gospel by asking questions while denying Scripture. Just because you can ask a question does NOT make the Bible wrong.



.

 

[Albion]

Can you fashion an argument without taking verses out of context?

I do it all the time.

And that approach is not a very good defense against anything and everything in Scripture that you -- or anyone else -- doesn't want to hear.

 

[Particular]

Yes, believe - and stop denying - what the Bible states. Stop insisting the Bible is so very, very often WRONG.


Gospel:


Romans 8:29-39, For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. "

Mark 13:22, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible.

John 4:14, "but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

John 20:28, I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

1 Thess. 5:24, "The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

Hebrews 10:14, "because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Rev. 3:5, "I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels."



Law:

John 15:4-7, "Remain in me, and I will remain in you... If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

Rev. 2:10, "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

1 Timothy 4:1, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

Luke 8:13, "They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

John 8:31, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really My disciples."

Luke 21:19, "By standing firm you will gain life."

Hebrews 8:9, "They did not remain faithful to My covenant, and I turned away from them"

Gal. 5:4, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

Col. 1:23, "If you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel."

2 Peter 3:17, "Be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."

Rev. 3:5, He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white.



Perhaps you disagree with God.... perhaps what the Bible SO OFTEN and SO CLEARLY says conflicts with the weird, new, almost universally rejected invention of a tiny few latter-day radical Calvinists often called "Once saved, ALWAYS saved" Perhaps you need to support this fundamental denial of the Gospel by asking questions while denying Scripture. Just because you can ask a question does NOT make the Bible wrong.



.

Josiah, I don't deny what the Bible says. I tell you that you are misinterpreting what the Bible says by cherry picking sentences from the Bible without caring about the context.
I tell you that every passage that surrounds your verses proves your interpretation to be wrong.
Jesus finds all his sheep who have wandered and he keeps them.

Jesus is very clear, yet you look for ways that a Christian can escape the hand of God and "unsave" himself.

Luke 15:3-7 So he told them this parable: “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

John 10:3-4,11,14-16,25-28 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

 

[Albion]

Josiah, I don't deny what the Bible says. I tell you that you are misinterpreting what the Bible says by cherry picking sentences from the Bible without caring about the context.
I tell you that every passage that surrounds your verses proves your interpretation to be wrong.
Jesus finds all his sheep who have wandered and he keeps them.

Jesus is very clear, yet you look for ways that a Christian can escape the hand of God and "unsave" himself.

That is slanderous. Cut it out.

If you have an interpretation of any Scriptural passage(s)...present it.

Imputing ugly motives to another Christian for no real reason other than a disagreement over exegesis should have no place here.

For sure, it renders all of your argumentation useless, and I'd think you would at least want to be persuasive rather than ineffective.

 

[Josiah]

Josiah, I don't deny what the Bible says.

... then you are directly, completely contradicting it.

I tell you that you are misinterpreting what the Bible says

No, you are "spinning" SO MANY clear Scriptures so that you insist God actually "MEANS" the exact opposite of what He so often, so clearly says.... you knowing the situation better than He.

I don't need to interpret ANYTHING. The words are clear. You can read them... but it seems you just don't accept them.

No, I have no intention of joining you and a tiny few radical Calvinists who for the last 500 years just won't accept what God has so clearly, so boldly, so obviously stated (it makes your weird, very unbiblical invention of OSAS clearly wrong).



Romans 8:29-39, For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. "

Mark 13:22, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible.

John 4:14, "but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

John 20:28, I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

1 Thess. 5:24, "The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

Hebrews 10:14, "because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Rev. 3:5, "I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels."



John 15:4-7, "Remain in me, and I will remain in you... If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

Rev. 2:10, "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

1 Timothy 4:1, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

Luke 8:13, "They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

Hebrews 8:9, "They did not remain faithful to My covenant, and I turned away from them"

Gal. 5:4, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

Col. 1:23, "If you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel."

2 Peter 3:17, "Be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."

Rev. 3:5, He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white.



I think we should accept what God says rather than your denial.


.

 

[Particular]

I do it all the time.

And that approach is not a very good defense against anything and everything in Scripture that you -- or anyone else -- doesn't want to hear.

Do you? I don't see you flesh out a Bible passage to show its meaning within context. Perhaps you can show us an example.

 

[Particular]

That is slanderous. Cut it out.

If you have an interpretation of any Scriptural passage(s)...present it.

Imputing ugly motives to another Christian for no real reason other than a disagreement over exegesis should have no place here.

For sure, it renders all of your argumentation useless, and I'd think you would at least want to be persuasive rather than ineffective.

When you declare that a Christian can be forsaken by God, you are looking for scripture that gives humans power to override God. Josiah has grabbed sentences from different areas to say that very thing and he has ignored the context surrounding those verses, which actually prove his assertion wrong.

 

[Albion]

Do you?

Yes.

I don't see you flesh out a Bible passage to show its meaning within context.

I cannot control your attentiveness or lack of it. But you can resolve to stop using personal attacks in place of a reasoned argument that can stand on its own.

 

[Particular]

... then you are directly, completely contradicting it.






No, you are "spinning" SO MANY clear Scriptures so that you insist God actually "MEANS" the exact opposite of what He so often, so clearly says.... you knowing the situation better than He.

I don't need to interpret ANYTHING. The words are clear. You can read them... but it seems you just don't accept them.

No, I have no intention of joining you and a tiny few radical Calvinists who for the last 500 years just won't accept what God has so clearly, so boldly, so obviously stated (it makes your weird, very unbiblical invention of OSAS clearly wrong).



Romans 8:29-39, For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. "

Mark 13:22, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible.

John 4:14, "but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

John 20:28, I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

1 Thess. 5:24, "The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

Hebrews 10:14, "because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Rev. 3:5, "I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels."



John 15:4-7, "Remain in me, and I will remain in you... If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

Rev. 2:10, "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

1 Timothy 4:1, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

Luke 8:13, "They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

Hebrews 8:9, "They did not remain faithful to My covenant, and I turned away from them"

Gal. 5:4, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

Col. 1:23, "If you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel."

2 Peter 3:17, "Be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."

Rev. 3:5, He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white.



I think we should accept what God says rather than your denial.


.

We can do this all day. Until you choose to look at the context around every sentence you are quoting, you will be falsely applying God's word out of context. What you are doing is a dangerous thing that ultimately results in false teaching.
So, please provide the context of each of your sentences that you have quoted and then explain how the context proves that a Christian can forsake God so that God does not track down his sheep and thus abandons his sheep in the wilderness of sin.
If you cannot do this, I will repeat that your method is in error.

 

[Albion]

When you declare that a Christian can be forsaken by God, you are looking for scripture that gives humans power to override God. Josiah has grabbed sentences from different areas to say that very thing and he has ignored the context surrounding those verses, which actually prove his assertion wrong.

I didn't speak against a difference of opinion over the use or meaning of Scriptural passages. The point was much more than that.

 

[Josiah]

Until you choose to look at the context around every sentence you are quoting, you will be falsely applying God's word out of context.

Until you cease to flat out deny what God says, we won't make process. I hold that we are subject to God's Word, you hold to the opposite.


But okay, I'll take just one of the MANY, MANY, MANY Scriptures that flat-out contradict the invention of a few radical Calvinists....

Here's the verse in context:



"I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these things to you so that, if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth. Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness:

He was manifested in the flesh,
vindicated by the Spirit,
seen by angels,
proclaimed among the nations,
believed on in the world,
taken up in glory.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.




Now, what in the context tells you that God is just joking or speaking in opposites? What in the context means this verse MUST mean the opposite of what it states?

Note that it is IMPOSSIBLE to "abandon" or "depart from" what one never had.

The same is true for all the Scriptures you just SPIN (you call it the necessary "INTERPRETATION" you must give so that the verse "MEANS" the exact opposite of what it says. You've never shown that the CONTEXT teaches the opposite of the verse or shows that God is speaking in opposites or just kidding.





.

 

[Particular]

Yes.


I cannot control your attentiveness or lack of it. But you can resolve to stop using personal attacks in place of a reasoned argument that can stand on its own.

I see this as your refusal. Noted.

 

[Particular]

I didn't speak against a difference of opinion over the use or meaning of Scriptural passages. The point was much more than that.

The point is that you don't wish to engage in scripture outside of meaningless prooftext.

 

[Particular]

Until you cease to flat out deny what God says, we won't make process. I hold that we are subject to God's Word, you hold to the opposite.


But okay, I'll take just one of the MANY, MANY, MANY Scriptures that flat-out contradict the invention of a few radical Calvinists....

Here's the verse in context:



"I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these things to you so that, if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth. Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness:

He was manifested in the flesh,
vindicated by the Spirit,
seen by angels,
proclaimed among the nations,
believed on in the world,
taken up in glory.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.




Now, what in the context tells you that God is just joking or speaking in opposites? What in the context means this verse MUST mean the opposite of what it states?

Note that it is IMPOSSIBLE to "abandon" or "depart from" what one never had.

The same is true for all the Scriptures you just SPIN (you call it the necessary "INTERPRETATION" you must give so that the verse "MEANS" the exact opposite of what it says. You've never shown that the CONTEXT teaches the opposite of the verse or shows that God is speaking in opposites or just kidding.





.

I don't deny anything God says.
I tell you that you have been lazy with God's word and are wielding the sword and Interpreting it very poorly.

 

[Josiah]

I see this as your refusal. Noted.

Here's just one of the verses you reject. In context, which you claim makes it undeniable that the verse "MEANS" the opposite of what it says. Show us all how the context makes it OBVIOUS and UNDENIABLE.


"I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these things to you so that, if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth. Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness:

He was manifested in the flesh,
vindicated by the Spirit,
seen by angels,
proclaimed among the nations,
believed on in the world,
taken up in glory.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer."




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[Albion]

I don't deny anything God says.

Apparently that "not bear false witness against" business is optional with you, then.