Jesus Christ taught two resurrections...

[hobie]

....at the end. One of the righteous saints who he raises up and takes with him to heaven, and are reigning in heaven with Jesus. Then we have the wicked who are separated from the just, "So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just," Matthew 13:49. So we have the wicked dead left behind for the thousand years, "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." Revelation 20:5. The unrighteous are dead. "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth". Revelation 20:7-8 Although not explicitly stated, it is obvious the unrighteous dead were resurrected after the 1000 years ended. "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection" Revelation 20:6. Specifying the "first" resurrection implies a second resurrection.

First lets see what resurrection is from the Bible, as some are teaching error saying people are being resurrected now as spirits or floating playing harps on a cloud but that is not correct as the resurrection of all the saints that are sleeping is at the end and has not happened yet.

2 Timothy 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

The resurrection of the saints from the grave is at the second coming, and it is in bodily form like Lazarus, not some spirit floating around, and it is from the grave not being plucked from the fields or rooftop.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Jesus taught that even if people died they would be raised up.

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And when he died at the cross, there were firstfruits of the saints that were raised from the grave, but the resurection of the saints is when Christ comes.

Matthew 27:52-53
52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The saints who believed would be ressurected by Christ just as he was resurrected in bodily form.

Acts 4:2
Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:12-13
Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

And this was being taught as a firm doctrine to the believers along with the final judgment.

Hebrews 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Some did not believe even back then in resurrection from the grave of the saints as seen in these verses.

Acts 17:32
And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

Acts 23:6-8
But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.7And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided. 8For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

And here we have the two resurrections at the end of time in a nutshell..
Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

and supported by many verses..
Luke 14:14
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.
John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

And the first resurrection is of the saints not the wicked as the verses make clear. The wicked are going to suffer the second death which is damnation in the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Lamb]

Jesus will come again...just once again...and ALL will rise up on Judgment Day. Not 2 resurrections.

 

[hobie]

So we read scripture on the resurrection, and we see that Jesus Christ taught two resurrections.:

John 5:29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in their graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation”.

The apostle Paul did too:

Acts 24:15
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Thus both Jesus Christ and Paul taught two resurrections, the first being “the resurrection of life” for the saved, the second being “the resurrection of damnation” for the lost.

When Jesus comes at the end of the world to collect His Saints, He gathers them together from all the parts of the earth. Here we have two parallel accounts of what Jesus told His disciples about His second coming:

Matthew 24:29-31. 24.
29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

When Jesus comes in the clods the wicked will be extremely confused at who, and what is happening, and they will be fearful of Christ and what is to happen to them. The righteous, on the other hand, know what is happening as Christ comes to take them to heaven and who the Saviour is, so have no fear.

Paul tells us in Thessalonians that God will not forget those who have died. If we believe that Jesus has risen from the dead, we can believe that God will bring them with Him. It is clear from the next few verses that Jesus will not only take all the living saints to heaven, but He will also raise from the dead all of His chosen ones who died, when He comes again, at His second coming:

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice it says both the resurrected saints and the living saints are caught up together in the clouds, which is the cloud of angels which Jesus Himself has with Him when He comes down from heaven at His second coming. This is the event, the second coming which all shall see Christ come in the clouds not any 'secret rapture', at the end of the world before the 1000 years when Jesus comes to get His people and take them back with Him.

 

[hobie]

In 1 Corinthians, we see Paul reinforcing this. Jesus is the first fruit of those who have fallen asleep in Jesus and here again Paul says that the dead in Christ will be raised at the time of His coming:

1 Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


All who have died in Christ, shall be made alive at Christ's second coming. It doesn't happen before His coming, at the resurrection of the just. Now Christ makes clear where Heaven is and who is going there, its not a holding place such as the false teaching of purgatory nor is everyone going to be saved as the false teaching of universalism...

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:34
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

Matthew 5:45
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 6:1
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 6:9
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Matthew 6:10
Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Matthew 6:14
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Matthew 7:11
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven

Now look carefully at scripture, as according to scripture we'll be in the clouds and taken to heaven at the second coming, not left on the earth. Christ takes the saints to heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If you are in heaven after the second coming you know you are with the saints, Satan tries to spread the lie that the 1000 year is on earth so he can present himself as a false christ before Christ comes at the second coming, yet he cant take anyone to heaven.

Revelation 20 tells us what happens after the second coming with the saints in heaven reigned with Christ during the thousand years:

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So there is a ‘good resurrection’(called “the first resurrection”) at the beginning of the 1000 years at the second coming of Chnrist where the saints are taken up to heaven, whereas “the rest of the dead” or the wicked are left dead on earth till 1000 years pass as the saints check the records to see that God was just, as they go over the books in heaven. Then the wicked are resurrected at the end of the 1000 years. A final judgment occurs, and then the lost are punished in the lake of fire (verses 9, 14, 15) , this is second and final death. Then the old earth passes, and the new earth comes (Revelation 21:1).

So scripture and Jesus Christ clearly teaches who will be in each and describe the two resurrections....

 

[Albion]

The spirit, as we are taught in Holy Scripture, goes on upon one's physical death, and that could be called a resurrection. There will be a second resurrection of sorts when the body is later reunited with the spirit.

 

[hobie]

Well lets look as many people think that there is a ghost-like “spirit” inside of our bodies, and when we die, this spirit floats away somewhere, preferably heaven.

But the Bible actually does not support this theory. In fact, according to the Bible there is no spirit inside of us at all. We exist only as mortal bodies, made from dust having been given the breath of life. And it is this “breath of life” that is confused with, or interpreted as, a “spirit”.


Scripture says it plainly what happens.

Genesis 3:19
By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

Job 7:21
Why then do you not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

Job 14:10:12
But man dies and lies prostrate man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dried up, so man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, he will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Psalm 146:4
When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20
For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing

Over and over again the Bible says that the dead know nothing. These are only a few examples. The dead don’t think. They don’t praise the Lord. They have no consciousness. They return to the earth, as dust. Their plans perish and they cease to exist. Ecclesiastes 3 even tells us that man has no advantage over the beasts. All go to one place, which is dust.

 

[Lamb]

I have moved this thread to the World Religion & Speculative Theology forum.

 

[hobie]

I have moved this thread to the World Religion & Speculative Theology forum.

Any reason, as it is all from scripture?

 

[Albion]

Well lets look as many people think that there is a ghost-like “spirit” inside of our bodies, and when we die, this spirit floats away somewhere, preferably heaven.

But the Bible actually does not support this theory.

Who does? <_<

Scripture says it plainly what happens.

You mean that the Seventh-day Adventist Church says it. Incidentally, this particular point is one of the reasons the SDA church is considered to be a cult. I didn't know if you were aware of that fact.

 

[hobie]

Who does? <_<


You mean that the Seventh-day Adventist Church says it. Incidentally, this particular point is one of the reasons the SDA church is considered to be a cult. I didn't know if you were aware of that fact.

Wow, what a absolute unsubstantiated and unprovoked statement. Now if you look, all I put is scriptural, we are not immortal, only God is immortal and the gift of eternal life is what Christ gives when He comes at the Second Coming. However, here is the Fundamental Belief on Death and Resurrection of the church for your scrutiny if any question, with biblical text for it:

The unconscious nothingness of death separates us from the God of life, yet Jesus’ defeat of death means the saved can look forward to resurrection and living forever.

The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious state for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to meet their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unrighteous, will take place a thousand years later. (Job 19:25-27; Ps. 146:3, 4; Eccl. 9:5, 6, 10; Dan. 12:2, 13; Isa. 25:8; John 5:28, 29; 11:11-14; Rom. 6:23; 6:16; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; Col. 3:4; 1 Thess. 4:13-17; 1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 20:1-10.) https://www.adventist.org/en/beliefs/restoration/death-and-resurrection/

 

[Albion]

Wow, what a absolute unsubstantiated and unprovoked statement.

Now, now. I merely passed along some information to you and it is what it is, whether you or I agree with that conclusion or not. But if you are interested, the idea of being created in the image and likeness of God, as Genesis teaches, presumes continuing existence. If we are rendered non-existent upon physical death, even with the possibility of being brought back at some time in the future, it is seen as tantamount to denying that "image."

 

[hobie]

Now, now. I merely passed along some information to you and it is what it is, whether you or I agree with that conclusion or not. But if you are interested, the idea of being created in the image and likeness of God, as Genesis teaches, presumes continuing existence. If we are rendered non-existent upon physical death, even with the possibility of being brought back at some time in the future, it is seen as tantamount to denying that "image."

Yes, as we know, the bigger the untruth, the more people think its true. But lets look at what happens according to scripture when we die and at the resurrection.
Look at at Genesis 2:7
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

When God united His breath, or spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit.

05397 hmvn n@shamah nesh-aw-maw'

from 05395; n f; {See TWOT on 1433 @@ '1433a'}

AV-breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24

1) breath, spirit
1a) breath (of God)
1b) breath (of man)
1c) every breathing thing
1d) spirit (of man)

How was man formed? (Body + breath = living soul)

When one dies, their spirit goes back to God who gave it, at which point, one is no longer a living soul. This is why humanity is not immortal, and must receive the same from God as a gift of salvation.

What is the breath? Breath is equated with the spirit of God.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils.

At death the body returns to dust while the spirit is said to return to God who gave it. (Silver cord = spine, golden bowl = skull, pitcher = heart, wheel = lungs)

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

When we are born our breath, as drawn from the surrounding atmosphere, may be said to come from or be given by God and with the same propriety may it be said, when it leaves the body at death to return unto Him. At death the breath or spirit of man is said to be gathered unto God.

Job 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, if he [God] gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;

15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Christ understood that his spirit would return to God at death.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Once a man’s spirit or breath is gone his thoughts perish.

Psalm 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

The dead know nothing they are unconscious. All their thoughts and feelings are gone.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

So their feelings perish also, the dead are silent, they do not praise God.

The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence. Psalms 115: 17

This state of unconsciousness is equated with sleep. Job says,

So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more; they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 14:12

Mans life only remains while he has breath.

Isaiah 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?

Man has no pre-eminence over animals. We all die the same. It cannot be proved whether the spirit goes up or downward. The pagan belief was that the spirit of man goes up and the spirit of animals goes down but Solomon says we have the same spirit as the animals and it can't be proved where the spirit goes at death.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

The breath of life is the spirit which God has given both man and beast. It is common to all living things and is not a distinguishing characteristic of man. The dead cannot praise God.

Psalms 30:9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?

The dead cannot give thanks to God.

Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Man lies in the sleep of death until the resurrection at the end of time. Then, and only then, will he awake and be raised out of sleep.

 

[hobie]

Death is compared to a unconscious state or sleep in scripture so there must be some analogy in the condition of the state of sleep and a state of death. Our condition in sleep differs from our condition when awake simply that when we are soundly asleep, we are entirely unconscious. So in this respect death is like sleep; that is, the dead are unconscious. We see this used in scripture in the Old and the New Testament.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Christ himself represented death as a sleep saying Lazarus was asleep in death. Lazarus would have remained unconscious sleeping in the grave until the resurrection had he not been raised by Christ.

John 11:11-14
11Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

When Christ died He commended His spirit into the hands of His Father and gave ghost. But Christ did not ascend to the Father as a ghost or a spirit, otherwise after His resurrection He would not have said “I am not yet ascended to my Father.” Christ remained dead in the grave unconscious until He arose again.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father.

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

David did not ascend to heaven at death but is dead and buried.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,


God can reverse the death process by creating new bodies and renewing the spirit or breath in them, and the Bible describes this at the Resurrection.Paul told the Christians in Corinth to put their hope in the resurrection and that without a resurrection their faith was in vain. Paul told them that those who were asleep in Christ would be made alive at the Second Coming of Christ.

God can reverse the death process by creating new bodies and renewing the spirit or breath in them.
1 Corinthians 15:12-18
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1 Corinthians 15:22-23
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

Christ promised his disciples that He would come again to receive them unto Himself. But He didn't say that they would come to Him instead in the form of some departed spirit.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Paul told the Christians in Thessalonica not to sorrow about death because at the Second Coming God would bring forth from the grave those who slept in Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Job says the dead are sleeping in the grave waiting for the appointed time, waiting for the day of resurrection when the heavens are chagned at the Second Coming.

Job 14:10-15
10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. 13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! 14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. 15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

Compare to what it says in Revelation:
Revelation 6:14
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


Paul preached the resurrection of the dead and not departed spirits to the pagans at Athens.

Acts 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

Acts 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter

Paul himself sought to attain to the resurrection of the dead not some spirit being floating to heaven.

Philippians 3:11 If by any means I [Paul] might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Resurrection is God's appointed method of bringing souls back to life, and the appointed time is at the Second Coming.

 

[hobie]

I have moved this thread to the World Religion & Speculative Theology forum.

With all due respect, how do I petition to have this thread 'Jesus Christ taught two resurrections...' moved back, as it is a Christian thread with proper scripture and should not have been moved.

 

[Albion]

It is instructive to note that, out of all those verses, only one is from the New Testament and you had to add your own comment to it in order to alter its meaning.

Look at at Genesis 2:7
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

When God united His breath, or spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit.

05397 hmvn n@shamah nesh-aw-maw'

from 05395; n f; {See TWOT on 1433 @@ '1433a'}

AV-breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24

1) breath, spirit
1a) breath (of God)
1b) breath (of man)
1c) every breathing thing
1d) spirit (of man)

How was man formed? (Body + breath = living soul)

When one dies, their spirit goes back to God who gave it, at which point, one is no longer a living soul. This is why humanity is not immortal, and must receive the same from God as a gift of salvation.

What is the breath? Breath is equated with the spirit of God.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils.

At death the body returns to dust while the spirit is said to return to God who gave it. (Silver cord = spine, golden bowl = skull, pitcher = heart, wheel = lungs)

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

When we are born our breath, as drawn from the surrounding atmosphere, may be said to come from or be given by God and with the same propriety may it be said, when it leaves the body at death to return unto Him. At death the breath or spirit of man is said to be gathered unto God.

Job 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, if he [God] gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;

15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Christ understood that his spirit would return to God at death.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Once a man’s spirit or breath is gone his thoughts perish.

Psalm 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

The dead know nothing they are unconscious. All their thoughts and feelings are gone.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

So their feelings perish also, the dead are silent, they do not praise God.

The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence. Psalms 115: 17

This state of unconsciousness is equated with sleep. Job says,

So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more; they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 14:12

Mans life only remains while he has breath.

Isaiah 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?

Man has no pre-eminence over animals. We all die the same. It cannot be proved whether the spirit goes up or downward. The pagan belief was that the spirit of man goes up and the spirit of animals goes down but Solomon says we have the same spirit as the animals and it can't be proved where the spirit goes at death.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

The breath of life is the spirit which God has given both man and beast. It is common to all living things and is not a distinguishing characteristic of man. The dead cannot praise God.

Psalms 30:9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?

The dead cannot give thanks to God.

Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Man lies in the sleep of death until the resurrection at the end of time. Then, and only then, will he awake and be raised out of sleep.

 

[hobie]

It is instructive to note that, out of all those verses, only one is from the New Testament and you had to add your own comment to it in order to alter its meaning.

If you cannot discuss the Word of God, and more importantly the words of Christ, in a Christian forum, then whats the point of having it? If the words of Christ himself are to be shunned or disregard, then there is a serious problem to say nothing of the spiritual danger.

 

[Michael]

With all due respect, how do I petition to have this thread 'Jesus Christ taught two resurrections...' moved back, as it is a Christian thread with proper scripture and should not have been moved.

I have found it's more of a "Lutheran" Theology forum, as opposed to "Christian." The gal in charge here moved all my threads - stuff I've been teaching in churches for years - into the "World Religion" section because she didn't agree with what I presented from the Scripture.
And since one Day, Christ and His Elect will indeed rule the World, I guess it actually is more of a World Religion that some of us believe and teach!

We do well also to remember that not all have "ears to hear." The Lord must, in His time, "open their minds to understand the Scriptures."

I agree there is a First Resurrection when the Lord returns to raise His Elect (those whom God called who proved themselves worthy and overcame) to immortality after the "great distress", cast the devil and his cohorts into the Pit, and reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years. And after the release of satan for a spell and the final rebellion, God will wipe them out, the heavens and earth will be cleansed, then "all who are in the graves will come forth" and be judged according to their works, (these being all who didn't overcome in this life, including the great bulk of church-goers) this is the Sheep and Goat judgment, and most of these (whether they had ever joined a church or not) will be welcomed into the Eternal Kingdom as the inheritance of the First Resurrection saints who will reign over and minister healing and Life to them.

It perhaps is a different message than the Lutheran and many other denominations have heard, but it IS what Jesus, the Prophets and Apostles taught. And that's good enough for me!

 

[Albion]

If you cannot discuss the Word of God, and more importantly the words of Christ, in a Christian forum, then whats the point of having it?

From what I can tell, you are indeed presenting your own church's interpretation of the Word of God, your posts have not been censored, and you are still here.

 

[hobie]

I have found it's more of a "Lutheran" Theology forum, as opposed to "Christian." The gal in charge here moved all my threads - stuff I've been teaching in churches for years - into the "World Religion" section because she didn't agree with what I presented from the Scripture.
And since one Day, Christ and His Elect will indeed rule the World, I guess it actually is more of a World Religion that some of us believe and teach!

We do well also to remember that not all have "ears to hear." The Lord must, in His time, "open their minds to understand the Scriptures."

I agree there is a First Resurrection when the Lord returns to raise His Elect (those whom God called who proved themselves worthy and overcame) to immortality after the "great distress", cast the devil and his cohorts into the Pit, and reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years. And after the release of satan for a spell and the final rebellion, God will wipe them out, the heavens and earth will be cleansed, then "all who are in the graves will come forth" and be judged according to their works, (these being all who didn't overcome in this life, including the great bulk of church-goers) this is the Sheep and Goat judgment, and most of these (whether they had ever joined a church or not) will be welcomed into the Eternal Kingdom as the inheritance of the First Resurrection saints who will reign over and minister healing and Life to them.

It perhaps is a different message than the Lutheran and many other denominations have heard, but it IS what Jesus, the Prophets and Apostles taught. And that's good enough for me!

Are you stating the Lutherans are then not actually Christian, I think they would disagree...

 

[hobie]

From what I can tell, you are indeed presenting your own church's interpretation of the Word of God, your posts have not been censored, and you are still here.

Now I am clearly using the Word of God and the words of Christ Himself, as you inferred that I was basically not using the NT but the OT, as if that is not Cannon/Scripture.