The Spartans were descendants of Abraham?

[NathanH83]

They were descendants of Abraham?

 

[Michael]

They were descendants of Abraham?

Perhaps. But blood lineage doesn't really matter in the Kingdom. Of greater importance is our spiritual connection with Abraham, and ultimately Christ.

"just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham." - Gal 4:6-9

Do we have the "faith" of Abraham, to whom the promises came "because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” (Gen 26:5)

Whether any group of people can trace their lineage back to Abraham doesn't matter anymore. Remember, the Word tells us that "there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free..." (Col 3:1).
Each man stands before God alone now, and it is our relationship to Him, through Christ Jesus, that matters.
Abraham is set forth as an example of one who believed and proved his faith by his obedience (Heb 11:8, James 2:21), and is called "the father of all those who believe." (Rom 4:11)

 

[JRT]

They were descendants of Abraham?

I very much doubt it.

 

[Josiah]

They were descendants of Abraham?

Weird.

 

[Andrew]

They were descendants of Abraham?

Something about Xerxes? I'm not too familiar with the Spartans to be honest, just from the movies

 

[NathanH83]

Something about Xerxes? I'm not too familiar with the Spartans to be honest, just from the movies

It says so in 1 Maccabees.

 

[Albion]

It says so in 1 Maccabees.

No, it doesn't. It says that the King of the Spartans wrote to the Persians saying that they were both descended from Abraham. That does not make it so, nor does it make Scripture claim it to be so.

 

[Andrew]

It says so in 1 Maccabees.

I also remember Xerxes being mentioned in one of the old testament books as well and I always wondered of it

 

[Albion]

I also remember Xerxes being mentioned in one of the old testament books as well and I always wondered of it

What's so surprising about Xerxes coming in for a mention?

 

[Andrew]

What's so surprising about Xerxes coming in for a mention?

Just connecting dots, it's irrelevant if you think the Maccabees were fictional characters.. had to re-read that part about the letters in 1rst Maccabees and I just never put two and two together and haven't checked it out yet either, might not be the same Xerxes in Esther that failed to conquer Greece, might look into it some other time.. but the letter in 1rst Maccabees (a book Martin Luther believed to be sacred Holy scripture) does suggest that the Spartans are descendents of Abraham

 

[Albion]

Just connecting dots, it's irrelevant if you think the Maccabees were fictional characters.. had to re-read that part about the letters in 1rst Maccabees and I just never put two and two together and haven't checked it out yet either, might not be the same Xerxes in Esther that failed to conquer Greece, might look into it some other time.. but the letter in 1rst Maccabees (a book Martin Luther believed to be sacred Holy scripture) does suggest that the Spartans are descendents of Abraham

No it doesn't. If you read the material, it simply says that the king of Sparta wrote to the Persians, claiming that they were both related to Abraham. That's it. Not one other assumption that appears in your post or that of our other colleague is warranted.

No one is suggesting that the Maccabees were fictional; there is no way of knowing WHY the king made this claim (there are a number of reasonable guesses); there is no reason to think that the two of them were actually related, and it has nothing to do with whether the book should be, or is, either in the Bible or not.

 

[Andrew]

No it doesn't. If you read the material, it simply says that the king of Sparta wrote to the Persians, claiming that they were both related to Abraham. That's it. Not one other assumption that appears in your post or that of our other colleague is warranted.

No one is suggesting that the Maccabees were fictional; there is no way of knowing WHY the king made this claim (there are a number of reasonable guesses); there is no reason to think that the two of them were actually related, and it has nothing to do with whether the book should be, or is, either in the Bible or not.

Maybe the confusion lies here

 

[Andrew]

Jewish nation, Spartan nation = Nations of descendents of Abraham

 

[Albion]

Jewish nation, Spartan nation = Nations of descendents of Abraham

There may be said to be a Jewish nation, but Xerxes wasn't a Jew. The Spartans were not a nation and didn't consider themselves to be one. The Spartans were not descendants of Abraham, based on all that we know. And Maccabees doesn't say that they were.

Got any more questions?

 

[Andrew]

There may be said to be a Jewish nation, but Xerxes wasn't a Jew. The Spartans were not a nation and didn't consider themselves to be one. The Spartans were not descendants of Abraham, based on all that we know. And Maccabees doesn't say that they were.

Got any more questions?

I never said Xerxes was a Jew.. he was a persian..
The letter suggest again that the nations of both Spartans and Jews were descendents of Abraham.

 

[Andrew]

Xerxes was written about in Ezra but that was at least 3 hundred years before first Maccabees was written, so nevermind him, I'm not too familiar with Spartan history but I do believe the letters are embracing the idea that two nations are related thus the Spartans may have roots in Judaism but I dunno, the letter suggest it though

 

[Albion]

I never said Xerxes was a Jew.. he was a persian..
The letter suggest again that the nations of both Spartans and Jews were descendents of Abraham.

...and there is no reason to think that the claim was true. There is a reason why the king of the Spartans might want to butter-up the Persian leaders, though. Did you ever think of that?

 

[Andrew]

...and there is no reason to think that the claim was true. There is a reason why the king of the Spartans might want to butter-up the Persian leaders, though. Did you ever think of that?

It's like Muslims calling themselves descended of Abraham through Ishmael to show that they are Abrahamic, which if true doesn't mean much, being distant cousins doesn't mean anything if Christians are included in his seed and many being gentiles -just doesn't mean "based on Jewish ancestry" but through the blood of Jesus Christ.

 

[Albion]

It's like Muslims calling themselves descended of Abraham through Ishmael to show that they are Abrahamic, which if true doesn't mean much, being distant cousins doesn't mean anything if Christians are included in his seed and many being gentiles -just doesn't mean "based on Jewish ancestry" but through the blood of Jesus Christ.

I'm not too familiar with Spartan history but I do believe the letters are embracing the idea that two nations are related thus the Spartans may have roots in Judaism but I dunno, the letter suggest it though

but the letter in 1rst Maccabees (a book Martin Luther believed to be sacred Holy scripture) does suggest that the Spartans are descendents of Abraham

The letter suggest again that the nations of both Spartans and Jews were descendents of Abraham.

Jewish nation, Spartan nation = Nations of descendents of Abraham

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[Andrew]

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What's your point? You seem to have many of them
I was just referring to your "buttering up" idea, it doesn't mean that Muslims are not descendents of Ishmael thus Abraham, it doesn't mean that Spartans were not descendents of Abraham either