Josiah said:
The Lutheran position (Known as Real Presence) is very simple: The words mean what they state.
"This" = this.
"Is" = is (the word has to do with reality, presence, being, "there").
"Bread" = bread.
"Wine" = wine.
"My" = my.
"Body" = body.
"Blood" = blood.
"Forgiveness" = forgiveness.
Just what Jesus said. Just what Paul by divine inspiration penned.
NO doubt. NO deletions. NO additions or substitutions. NO explanations. NO inserted medieval false ideas of physics.
The THAT is affirmed, the HOW is left alone. It's called the Mystery of Real Presence.
Lutherans don't replace any word with "change" "not" "seems like" "transformed" "alchemy" "Aristotle" "symbolizes" "appearance".
We hold that Jesus meant what He said and said what He meant. Same with St. Paul.
That's it. That's all.
Simple.
.
[Mat 26:26 NASB] 26 While they were eating, Jesus took some
bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat;
this is My body."
[Mar 14:22 NASB] 22 While they were eating, He took some
bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, "Take it;
this is My body."
[Luk 22:19 NASB] 19 And when He had taken some
bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "
This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
Q. What was Jesus holding and claimed was His body when He “meant what He said and said what He meant”?
A. Bread.
[MENTION=334]atpollard[/MENTION]
I don't hold that Jesus made a false claim here.
I'm not the one insisting that SOME things Jesus said are true and some... well.....
I'm not demanding a split half true, half not spin. I never said that bread and wine are not absent, I said that Body and Blood are present.
Here's my position.
It's the identical position that EVERY CHRISTIAN had for over 1500 years.
It was good enough for 100% of Christians for over 1500 years. It's good enough for me.
Jesus said what He meant. Paul penned what the Holy Spirit inspired.
The "Real Presence" view is very simple: The words are what they are and mean what they state.
Simple.
"This" = this.
"Is" = is (the word has to do with reality, presence, being, "there").
"Bread" = bread.
"Wine" = wine.
"My" = my.
"Body" = body.
"Blood" = blood.
"Forgiveness" = forgiveness.
Just what Jesus said. Just what Paul by divine inspiration penned.
NO doubt.
NO deletions.
NO additions or substitutions.
NO explanations.
NO inserted medieval false ideas of physics.
NO "but my (really bad) understanding of physics says this can't be so it can't be true"
The THAT is affirmed, the HOW is left alone.
It's called the Mystery of Real Presence.
Don't replace any word with "change" "not" "seems like" "transformed" "alchemy" "Aristotle" "symbolizes" "appearance" "or" "of" "made"
We hold that Jesus meant what He said and said what He meant. Same with St. Paul.
That's it. That's all.
Simple.
What I don't find in anything about the Eucharist is "not" "just seems like" "falsely appears like" "symbolizes" "made" "of" "change" "or" "transform" "Aristotle" "alchemy"
And not one Christian for over 1500 years ever saw any of those either.
Accepting what Jesus said and Paul penned - rather than what they did not - is known as "Real Presence."
It was the universal, historic view of all Christians for over 1500 years.
For over 1500 years, not one Christian had any problem believing Jesus.
I don't either.
.
