JOHN 7:1 JESUS HAD BROTHERS

[Arsenios]

Thanks for the non answer!!

Have you stopped beating your neighbor's dog?

Same kind of question...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

It is not my creation, but thank-you...

Inconvenient facts are throughout Holy Writ...



It IS truthful...

God gave Satan rulership of this fallen earth...

Then He conducted an undercover operation to rescue hostages...

And to restore original Creation...

And to establish man in His Likeness over it...

The powers of death swallowed Life from the Cross...

And were overcome by Christ...

And we in Him overcome them and their death...



You can't re-write the Bible, Menno...

That sentence is not in the Bible...



All blah blah, Menno...


Arsenios

Sure it is. You and your church created a myth that is unsupported by scripture. Funny how you trust myth makers above scripture. It was the same trap the Pharisees and Sadducees fell into. Why believe the Bible when you have... tradition.

 

[Josiah]

MennoSota,



You parrot a dogma that is unsupported by Scripture. You insist that Mary had other children yet PROVE - over and over - that Scripture never says that. A new tradition arose in the 18th Century among very liberal Protestants that you choose to parrot, but it has nothing in Scripture that states that.

Yes, the words "brother" and "sister" appear OFTEN in the Bible, often to NOT mean "Came out of the same womb; have the same birth mother." We all know the words do NOT mandate coming from the same womb. We all know there is no word for "step or half sibling" in koine Greek and that while there is a word for "cousin" these words are more often used for that. We know the words OFTEN mean someone with whom we have a spiritual or emotional tie (that has NOTHING to do with sharing the same biological mother).

Yes, you parrot a tradition, that of 18th Century Protestants determined to deny the virgin birth of Jesus, a tradition that never existed before them. While you reject a tradition that is 1700 years older and until those liberals came along, was universal. Okay. But you are parroting a tradition as surely as Arsenios is, yours is just MUCH newer and rarer. All who can actually READ know that the Bible NOWHERE state that Mary had or did not have other children; it NOWHERE states others came from her womb. There is a very, very ancient Tradition (universal for 1700 years) that says no, she had no other children. And there's one from a handful of very liberal Protestants from the 18th Century that insist Mary had other children. Arsenios echos one tradition, you the other. The Bible states neither, as you keep PROVING, and you'll likely continue to prove it, as is your style.




.

 

[Andrew]

Hi all. I was away for a brief moment, sorry. Actually thought I should delete the acct, it's been so long, I forget how to navigate the site. But I saw this latest posting, ... Thought I'd add a comment if that's ok.
The bible clearly states that Jesus had 4 brothers and at least 2 sisters. God bless.

You should come around more often I miss you friend!

 

[Andrew]

Read the thread - You will find something new here...

He did have 4 brothers and 3 sisters, and a Mother and a father too, Joseph...

Folks here are arguing that His Virgin Mother was not a Virgin...

That His father was not His Father...

But that His siblings came from His once-upon-a-time virgin mother...

Who btw was a nice little ordinary Jewish girl next door...

Enjoy!


Arsenios - Who is arguing with Christ that She is GUNE - WOMAN - The New Eve...

Who here says she wasn't a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus?
What would be the purpose of her and joseph to remain celibate and perpetual? Seriously you act like she would be damned for having kids with her husband! Child birth is a blessing so why is it such a big deal that they not have sex??

 

[RichWh1]

Who here says she wasn't a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus?
What would be the purpose of her and joseph to remain celibate and perpetual? Seriously you act like she would be damned for having kids with her husband! Child birth is a blessing so why is it such a big deal that they not have sex??

Nobody has said Mary was not virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. Whoever is saying this is misreading others posts!


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[Andrew]

Nobody has said Mary was not virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. Whoever is saying this is misreading others posts!


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Arsenios said that some people are saying that Jesus mother was not a virgin, that's why I asked him "who says that?"

 

[RichWh1]

Arsenios said that some people are saying that Jesus mother was not a virgin, that's why I asked him "who says that?"

I have no idea. I’ve read most of the posts here and I didn’t see where anyone said that!
Perhaps some said she was not a ‘perpetual’ virgin as Catholics believe.



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[MennoSota]

MennoSota,



You parrot a dogma that is unsupported by Scripture. You insist that Mary had other children yet PROVE - over and over - that Scripture never says that. A new tradition arose in the 18th Century among very liberal Protestants that you choose to parrot, but it has nothing in Scripture that states that.

Yes, the words "brother" and "sister" appear OFTEN in the Bible, often to NOT mean "Came out of the same womb; have the same birth mother." We all know the words do NOT mandate coming from the same womb. We all know there is no word for "step or half sibling" in koine Greek and that while there is a word for "cousin" these words are more often used for that. We know the words OFTEN mean someone with whom we have a spiritual or emotional tie (that has NOTHING to do with sharing the same biological mother).

Yes, you parrot a tradition, that of 18th Century Protestants determined to deny the virgin birth of Jesus, a tradition that never existed before them. While you reject a tradition that is 1700 years older and until those liberals came along, was universal. Okay. But you are parroting a tradition as surely as Arsenios is, yours is just MUCH newer and rarer. All who can actually READ know that the Bible NOWHERE state that Mary had or did not have other children; it NOWHERE states others came from her womb. There is a very, very ancient Tradition (universal for 1700 years) that says no, she had no other children. And there's one from a handful of very liberal Protestants from the 18th Century that insist Mary had other children. Arsenios echos one tradition, you the other. The Bible states neither, as you keep PROVING, and you'll likely continue to prove it, as is your style.




.

I insist that the passage says Jesus had brothers and sisters and that Mary is pointed to as being the mother of them all.
You are free to follow an unsupported tradition created centuries after Mary died.
I am free to accept what the Bible tells us.
What is never even implied is that Mary was a perpetual virgin or that Joseph married more women and had kids through that other woman. To create that scenario is to make it up from complete and utter silence.
I will take what the Bible says and believe it.
Josiah, your lack of living by Sola Scriptura is once again noted.

 

[Andrew]

I have no idea. I’ve read most of the posts here and I didn’t see where anyone said that!
Perhaps some said she was not a ‘perpetual’ virgin as Catholics believe.



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Exactly, Arsenios was setting up a straw man :/ tisk tisk tisk!

 

[Webster]

Did Jesus have any brothers? Hmmm.....I know: what do the Scriptures say?

(1) Mark 6:3 - Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
(2) Matthew 13:55-56 - Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
(3) Mark 3:31-32 - There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him. And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
(4) Galatians 1:19 - But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

*re-reads the scripture verses above* Now, I will readily admit to not being the sharpest tool in the Christian toolshed, but a cursory reading of the verses above should answer the question at hand: to wit, yes, Jesus of Nazareth, our Lord & Saviour, did indeed have several brothers.

 

[Arsenios]

Perhaps some said she was not a ‘perpetual’ virgin as Catholics believe.

By THAT standard, my Dear, YOUR mother was a virgin, and just not a perpetual one...

If the Blessed Virgin had marital relations, she was not a virgin...

Your argument is that She is a FORMER virgin...

IF She is a FORMER virgin, then she is not a virgin, you see...

Christ was born of a virgin, you see...

And not of a FORMER virgin...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Did Jesus have any brothers? Hmmm.....I know: what do the Scriptures say?

(1) Mark 6:3 - Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
(2) Matthew 13:55-56 - Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
(3) Mark 3:31-32 - There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him. And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
(4) Galatians 1:19 - But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

*re-reads the scripture verses above* Now, I will readily admit to not being the sharpest tool in the Christian toolshed, but a cursory reading of the verses above should answer the question at hand: to wit, yes, Jesus of Nazareth, our Lord & Saviour, did indeed have several brothers.

Yes he did, and several sisters as well, and a Mother and a father, Joseph the carpenter...

I plainly tells you that Joseph the Carpenter is His father...

Do YOU believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of Joseph the Carpenter?

IF you do, boy oh boy do I have some Florida real estate for YOU!!


Arsenios

 

[RichWh1]

Yes he did, and several sisters as well, and a Mother and a father, Joseph the carpenter...

I plainly tells you that Joseph the Carpenter is His father...

Do YOU believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of Joseph the Carpenter?

IF you do, boy oh boy do I have some Florida real estate for YOU!!


Arsenios

The Scripture is silent as to whether Mary and Joseph has other children by copulation , which means that we cannot infer that they were all children of Joseph!

That is reading into the Scripture not extracting from it!!

BTW My mother WAS a virgin before she was married!!


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[Arsenios]

The Scripture is silent as to whether Mary and Joseph has other children by copulation , which means that we cannot infer that they were all children of Joseph!

That is reading into the Scripture not extracting from it!!

BTW My mother WAS a virgin before she was married!!

God Bless your Mom!

The Blessed Virgin was also a virgin AFTER she was married...

Says so right there in Holy Writ!

Nowhere does it say in Scripture that the Blessed Virgin ever became the FORMER virgin...

You are right - Scripture does not tout Her ever-virginity...

Christ calls Her Gune - Woman...

The Name EVE means WOMAN...

Thank-you for manning up to the truth of Scriptural silence regarding Jesus' brothers and sisters...


Arsenios

 

[RichWh1]

God Bless your Mom!

The Blessed Virgin was also a virgin AFTER she was married...

Says so right there in Holy Writ!

Nowhere does it say in Scripture that the Blessed Virgin ever became the FORMER virgin...

You are right - Scripture does not tout Her ever-virginity...

Christ calls Her Gune - Woman...

The Name EVE means WOMAN...

Thank-you for manning up to the truth of Scriptural silence regarding Jesus' brothers and sisters...


Arsenios

> The Blessed Virgin was also a virgin AFTER she was married...

Says so right there in Holy Writ!

Where is it mentioned that Mary remained a virgin AFTER she gave birth to Jesus??

> The Name EVE means WOMAN...

The name Eve means mother of all living !! Learn Hebrew!!

> Nowhere does it say in Scripture that the Blessed Virgin ever became the FORMER virgin...

Nowhere does Scripture call Mary Virgin Mary!! To say she was perpetually ( or EVER) virgin is reading into the Scripture what is not there!!

Scripture does not say that Mary did not consummate the marriage with Joseph!!
So all you have is insertions and assumptions!

> Thank-you for manning up to the truth of Scriptural silence regarding Jesus' brothers and sisters...

Scripture is silent on whose children they were! It is not silent regarding his brothers and sisters!




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[Josiah]

Nowhere does it say in Scripture that the Blessed Virgin ever became the FORMER virgin...

EQUALLY, it never states that Mary LOST her virginity. NEVER does it say "Mary had lotsa kids." It ONLY says she bore Jesus. It NEVER says she bore any other. If you care what Scripture does NOT say, then ... well... it NEVER states she had other children.

Scripture does not say that Mary did not consummate the marriage with Joseph!!

Where does it state she did?

And can you prove that every case of marital intimacies results in the birth of a child? Can you prove that EVERY consummated marriage results in the birth of children?

the truth of Scriptural silence regarding Jesus' brothers and sisters...

EXACTLY!!!! The Bible is SILENT on this. Unlike some Protestants today who parrot the invention of a few radically liberal Protestants in the 18th Century, parroting their invented tradition - which having nothing in Scripture that states what they do.

Scripture is silent on whose children they were!

BINGO!

 

[Josiah]

I insist that the passage says Jesus had brothers and sisters and that Mary is pointed to as being the mother of them all.

Yet you PROVE Scripture does not. You repeatedly PROVE your parroted traditon is wrong. The Bible never states that all these others came from the womb of Mary, as you yourself keep proving.

I will take what the Bible says and believe it.

Me, too. And since you have PROVEN - over and over - that Scripture NEVER calls any other a child of Mary...since NO OTHER is stated as coming from the womb of Jesus.... you have repeatedly proven (verbatim) that your position is wrong. You don't believe what Scripture says, you just parrot a tradition invented by a few radical liberal Protestants in the 18th Century in place of taking what the Bible says and does not say.

 

[MennoSota]

EQUALLY, it never states that Mary LOST her virginity. NEVER does it say "Mary had lotsa kids." It ONLY says she bore Jesus. It NEVER says she bore any other. If you care what Scripture does NOT say, then ... well... it NEVER states she had other children.






Where does it state she did?

And can you prove that every case of marital intimacies results in the birth of a child? Can you prove that EVERY consummated marriage results in the birth of children?







EXACTLY!!!! The Bible is SILENT on this. Unlike some Protestants today who parrot the invention of a few radically liberal Protestants in the 18th Century, parroting their invented tradition - which having nothing in Scripture that states what they do.







BINGO!

My goodness you will twist like a pretzel to make the Bible be silent. It's as if you think the Bible is out to trick people.
Brother means brother in this context. Sister means sister in this context. It's really not a difficult passage, yet you squirm and squirm to make it not mean brother and not mean sister. Why does tradition have such a deep hold on you that you feel you have to excuse scripture away in order to make your tradition plausible?

Matthew 12:46 While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him.

Matthew 13:55-56 Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all his sisters with us?

 

[MennoSota]

Yet you PROVE Scripture does not. You repeatedly PROVE your parroted traditon is wrong. The Bible never states that all these others came from the womb of Mary, as you yourself keep proving.






Me, too. And since you have PROVEN - over and over - that Scripture NEVER calls any other a child of Mary...since NO OTHER is stated as coming from the womb of Jesus.... you have repeatedly proven (verbatim) that your position is wrong. You don't believe what Scripture says, you just parrot a tradition invented by a few radical liberal Protestants in the 18th Century in place of taking what the Bible says and does not say.

LOL, it seems you're willing to die on this hill. Well, at least you'll die with a pretzel in your hand.