Universal Atonement

[popsthebuilder]

Maybe I'm confused. Does universal atonement mean that all will stand trial under the one Lord upon his return and or upon there death? Or could partial atonement be achieved simply by having faith in Jesus Christ regardless of your life decisions which by the way can't be right as some have stated if we were all forgiven prior to our very conception then what would stop anarchy and chaos and evil from running rampant with no consequences. Clearly some texts have been intentionally lost in translation to appease some mortal or group of mortals. Now can you understand and answer my question please. The lord bestows real believers with knowledge for the sake of making valid argument and to bring realization of the truth to others. So please help me understand.

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[Hammster]

The atonement is what God did to make man right with Him by sending His Son to die on a cross, taking the punishment due us, and being a propitiation for our sins.


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[GuusVA]

To get back to you Hammster,

What I was trying to say is, God did die for ALL sins as written in the scripture. But this all can be interpreted in two ways. Based in scriptural reference, you can either interpret is as all sins. I mean in John 3:16, as referred before it is very clear imo.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. That WHOEVER believes in him shall not perish. So God gave his son to die on the Cross for the sins of the people that accepted him as his savior. So that does not include the sins of those who have no remorse or who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior.

 

[GuusVA]

To answer to what I think you are asking popsthebuilder, Jesus did rise from the death in person. and we don't idolize a crucifx. Last, To be saved, you need to accept Jesus Christ as your savior as you said with a wholehearted faith. I understand it is sort of complicated and I think you got it about all right though. If you have any questions regarding salvation you can always start a thread in the ask a christian forum or send me PM.

Try to really explain your question thoroughly though that helps us give you a well build and clear answer.

 

[Hammster]

To get back to you Hammster,

What I was trying to say is, God did die for ALL sins as written in the scripture. But this all can be interpreted in two ways. Based in scriptural reference, you can either interpret is as all sins. I mean in John 3:16, as referred before it is very clear imo.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. That WHOEVER believes in him shall not perish. So God gave his son to die on the Cross for the sins of the people that accepted him as his savior. So that does not include the sins of those who have no remorse or who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior.

Actually, it says that those who are believing have eternal life. It does not mention the atonement. You are practicing eisegesis to think it does.


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[Hammster]

To answer to what I think you are asking popsthebuilder, Jesus did rise from the death in person. and we don't idolize a crucifx. Last, To be saved, you need to accept Jesus Christ as your savior as you said with a wholehearted faith. I understand it is sort of complicated and I think you got it about all right though. If you have any questions regarding salvation you can always start a thread in the ask a christian forum or send me PM.

Try to really explain your question thoroughly though that helps us give you a well build and clear answer.

Actually, we are commanded to repent and believe. There are no verses that say we are to accept Jesus as Savior to be saved. Correct terminology is helpful in these situations.


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[GuusVA]

Actually, it says that those who are believing have eternal life. It does not mention the atonement. You are practicing eisegesis to think it does.


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It's not eisegesis, what a difficult word, to read what I read. We both now that God send his only son to this world for the atonement I mean the entire bible from start to the atonement is a timeline towards their, not in chronological order though. About every prophet talks about it and the scripture from John only confirms it.

Actually, we are commanded to repent and believe. There are no verses that say we are to accept Jesus as Savior to be saved. Correct terminology is helpful in these situations.


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If my terminoligy is incorrect maybe you should explain it in clear english hammster, Because I think Popshtebuilder has been asking us, the people in this thread, to help him out. I don't think this is too hard a thing to do

 

[Hammster]

It's not eisegesis, what a difficult word, to read what I read. We both now that God send his only son to this world for the atonement I mean the entire bible from start to the atonement is a timeline towards their, not in chronological order though. About every prophet talks about it and the scripture from John only confirms it.



If my terminoligy is incorrect maybe you should explain it in clear english hammster, Because I think Popshtebuilder has been asking us, the people in this thread, to help him out. I don't think this is too hard a thing to do

I did explain it in clear English. You are the one who took a passage that did not say anything about the Atonement and read the Atonement into it. And you made the verse say more than it does. All John 3:16 says is that those who are believing will have eternal life. There are other passages which speak of Atonement, one which I provided earlier to which there's been no response.


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[popsthebuilder]

Very good. Those who believe will have eternal life. Is what you just said? You will find the bible both old and new testaments make much more sense if you try not to think past the obvious. Anyone who is with pure convicting faith in the one Lord and lives there life accordingly will have a good place with the lord no later than upon death. To think to far into the obvious is detrimental to real understanding. The books also state something along the lines of if you knowingly falsify the truth your punishment will be among the most severe. Or am I making things up?

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[Hammster]

Very good. Those who believe will have eternal life. Is what you just said? You will find the bible both old and new testaments make much more sense if you try not to think past the obvious. Anyone who is with pure convicting faith in the one Lord and lives there life accordingly will have a good place with the lord no later than upon death. To think to far into the obvious is detrimental to real understanding. The books also state something along the lines of if you knowingly falsify the truth your punishment will be among the most severe. Or am I making things up?

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Since you are giving no reference to what you are proposing, I cannot verify.


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[popsthebuilder]

Surely you are not the only person reading this. Would anyone else please respond. Positively, negatively, just please at least act as if you understand something I am saying and make some sense yourself please.

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[Hammster]

Surely you are not the only person reading this. Would anyone else please respond. Positively, negatively, just please at least act as if you understand something I am saying and make some sense yourself please.

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I could probably act like I know what you are talking about in reference to the actual topic of the thread, but my responses would be as ambiguous as your posts.


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[Lamb]

Objectively we are all justified because of Christ's death on the cross.

We do not benefit from that free gift unless subjectively (by grace through faith) we receive this Gospel and believe. It has to be objectively already true for you to believe in it.

 

[psalms 91]

Like any gift it must be opened and used. If you choose not to accept the gift then it has no effect on you

 

[Hammster]

Like any gift it must be opened and used. If you choose not to accept the gift then it has no effect on you

What leads you to believe that a gift must be accepted to be used? Is there any gift that can be given that doesn't need to be "accepted" to be used?

And I'm still wondering how someone can be punished in hell for sins that Christ allegedly took the punishment for.


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[Hammster]

Objectively we are all justified because of Christ's death on the cross.

We do not benefit from that free gift unless subjectively (by grace through faith) we receive this Gospel and believe. It has to be objectively already true for you to believe in it.

We are justified by faith. To say we are objectively justified apart from faith is to go against scripture.


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[Lamb]

We are justified by faith. To say we are objectively justified apart from faith is to go against scripture.


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What does faith grab onto? The fact that we're forgiven and that happened at the cross.

 

[Hammster]

What does faith grab onto? The fact that we're forgiven and that happened at the cross.

That's fine. But I can say the same thing about my position without having a group of forgiven people being punished in hell for sins that were atoned for.


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[Lamb]

That's fine. But I can say the same thing about my position without having a group of forgiven people being punished in hell for sins that were atoned for.


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Those who reject the Christ also reject the forgiveness of sin. They do not benefit as we do, the ones who by grace through faith believe.

 

[psalms 91]

Those who reject the Christ also reject the forgiveness of sin. They do not benefit as we do, the ones who by grace through faith believe.

This