What is FAITH?

MennoSota

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Human nature created by God in His Image does not really have the option of faith in its psychological meaning...
You WILL have faith in SOME-thing...
Anthropological studies show how many are some of the things man can have faith IN...
Here are a few:

Wealth...
Poverty...
Crack pipes...
Hallucinations...
Demonic revelations...
Emperor Hirohito...
Napoleon...
Self...
Social approval...
Science...
Books...
The Prophet Mohammed...
God...
Satan...
etc etc etc...

You see, faith IS the BASIS - eg the HYPOSTASIS - of things anticipated...
And in action, it is the EVIDENCE of things NOT SEEN...

It's basis can be fear - eg based on death, upon which all have sinned...
Or it can be Love - eg based on Life, for which the world is renounced...

That is our choice as Christians at every turn...
Life of death, Love or fear, Good or evil, God or His enemies...

We are saved THROUGH the Faith of Christ...
Which Faith He discipled to His Apostles...
But we are Saved BY God Himself...
God's Grace is God Himself in His Power...

The Gift Unearnable is God Himself...
It is not free...
It cannot be earned...
There is the COST of Discipleship in the Faith of Christ...

The cost is the world...
The cost is the self...
The cost is one's cross...
The Cost is Christ Crucified...

Christ Crucified is embraced...
By man denying himself...
By taking up his own cross...
And following Christ...

A cross is an instrument of torture...
A torture unto death...
Renouncing the world...
In the Love of God...

Not as the world gives...
Does Christ Give...
The Peace of God...
To His Faithful Ones...


Arsenios
Because humans, by their rebellious nature, will not willfully seek God, they will substitute belief into anything that does not require them to give up control.
God requires a complete crucification with Christ so that Christ might raise us up with Himself and grant us faith to believe and trust. That faith comes not from us, but is solely a gift from God.
 

Arsenios

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Because humans, by their rebellious nature, will not willfully seek God,
they will substitute belief into anything that does not require them to give up control.

I am taking this as your personal confession...

The simple fact is there are only two alternatives...

Existence or non-existence...

God or satan...

Life or death...

God requires a complete crucification with Christ
so that Christ might raise us up with Himself
and grant us faith to believe and trust.
That faith comes not from us,
but is solely a gift from God.

That Faith is THE Faith Christ discipled to His Apostles...
Experience of God causes us to believe in God...
Many criminals believe...
And are still criminals...


Arsenios
 

Webster

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"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Hebrews 11: 1 and Faith is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8).

I like how Martin Luther defined it: "Faith is a living, bold trust in God’s grace, so certain of God’s favor that it would risk death a thousand times trusting in it. Such confidence and knowledge of God’s grace makes you happy, joyful and bold in your relationship to God and all creatures. The Holy Spirit makes this happen through faith. Because of it, you freely, willingly and joyfully do good to everyone, serve everyone, suffer all kinds of things, love and praise the God who has shown you such grace."
Agreed, Lammchen. :)
 

MennoSota

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I am taking this as your personal confession...

The simple fact is there are only two alternatives...

Existence or non-existence...

God or satan...

Life or death...



That Faith is THE Faith Christ discipled to His Apostles...
Experience of God causes us to believe in God...
Many criminals believe...
And are still criminals...


Arsenios

That Faith is THE Faith Christ graciously GAVE to His disciples, starting at Pentacost. He gives that same gift of Faith to each one He has chosen to adopt as His children.
God grows our Faith. We do not manufacture it and improve on it by our own planning and beating of our selves into submission.
 

Arsenios

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That Faith is THE Faith Christ graciously GAVE to His disciples, starting at Pentacost.
He gives that same gift of Faith to each one He has chosen to adopt as His children.
God grows our Faith.
We do not manufacture it and improve on it

Did Christ disciple His Faith to the Apostles?

If yes, then is the Faith of Christ received by discipleship?

Does the Bible disciple the Faith Christ discipled to His disciples?

Or is the Faith given by direct Revelation of God to each person?


A.
 

MennoSota

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Did Christ disciple His Faith to the Apostles?

If yes, then is the Faith of Christ received by discipleship?

Does the Bible disciple the Faith Christ discipled to His disciples?

Or is the Faith given by direct Revelation of God to each person?


A.

No, he did not disciple his faith.
Christ mentored his disciples. He gave them the gift of faith and God grew that faith over their lifetime.
Faith is received first, by God's grace, and then faith is grown in the disciples. The disciples did not have faith in their own, which God then discipled them on how to build their own faith.
Faith is given directly by grace to those whom God wills to give it. Faith cannot be manufactured by humans and then disciplined through human will and honing into something special.
Faith is an unmerited gift from God.
 

atpollard

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BLEEDING WOMAN:
  • [Matthew 9:20-22 NASB] 20 And a woman who had been suffering from a hemorrhage for twelve years, came up behind Him and touched the fringe of His cloak; 21 for she was saying to herself, "If I only touch His garment, I will get well." 22 But Jesus turning and seeing her said, "Daughter, take courage; your faith has made you well." At once the woman was made well.
  • [Mark 5:25-34 NASB] 25 A woman who had had a hemorrhage for twelve years, 26 and had endured much at the hands of many physicians, and had spent all that she had and was not helped at all, but rather had grown worse-- 27 after hearing about Jesus, she came up in the crowd behind [Him] and touched His cloak. 28 For she thought, "If I just touch His garments, I will get well." 29 Immediately the flow of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of her affliction. 30 Immediately Jesus, perceiving in Himself that the power [proceeding] from Him had gone forth, turned around in the crowd and said, "Who touched My garments?" 31 And His disciples said to Him, "You see the crowd pressing in on You, and You say, 'Who touched Me?'" 32 And He looked around to see the woman who had done this. 33 But the woman fearing and trembling, aware of what had happened to her, came and fell down before Him and told Him the whole truth. 34 And He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace and be healed of your affliction."
  • [Luke 8:43-48 NASB] 43 And a woman who had a hemorrhage for twelve years, and could not be healed by anyone, 44 came up behind Him and touched the fringe of His cloak, and immediately her hemorrhage stopped. 45 And Jesus said, "Who is the one who touched Me?" And while they were all denying it, Peter said, "Master, the people are crowding and pressing in on You." 46 But Jesus said, "Someone did touch Me, for I was aware that power had gone out of Me." 47 When the woman saw that she had not escaped notice, she came trembling and fell down before Him, and declared in the presence of all the people the reason why she had touched Him, and how she had been immediately healed. 48 And He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace."
BLIND MEN:
  • [Matthew 9:27-31 NASB] 27 As Jesus went on from there, two blind men followed Him, crying out, "Have mercy on us, Son of David!" 28 When He entered the house, the blind men came up to Him, and Jesus said to them, "Do you believe that I am able to do this?" They said to Him, "Yes, Lord." 29 Then He touched their eyes, saying, "It shall be done to you according to your faith." 30 And their eyes were opened. And Jesus sternly warned them: "See that no one knows [about this!]" 31 But they went out and spread the news about Him throughout all that land.
  • [Mark 10:46-52 NASB] 46 Then they came to Jericho. And as He was leaving Jericho with His disciples and a large crowd, a blind beggar [named] Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, was sitting by the road. 47 When he heard that it was Jesus the Nazarene, he began to cry out and say, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!" 48 Many were sternly telling him to be quiet, but he kept crying out all the more, "Son of David, have mercy on me!" 49 And Jesus stopped and said, "Call him [here.]" So they called the blind man, saying to him, "Take courage, stand up! He is calling for you." 50 Throwing aside his cloak, he jumped up and came to Jesus. 51 And answering him, Jesus said, "What do you want Me to do for you?" And the blind man said to Him, "Rabboni, [I want] to regain my sight!" 52 And Jesus said to him, "Go; your faith has made you well." Immediately he regained his sight and [began] following Him on the road.
  • [Luke 18:35-43 NASB] 35 As Jesus was approaching Jericho, a blind man was sitting by the road begging. 36 Now hearing a crowd going by, he [began] to inquire what this was. 37 They told him that Jesus of Nazareth was passing by. 38 And he called out, saying, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!" 39 Those who led the way were sternly telling him to be quiet; but he kept crying out all the more, "Son of David, have mercy on me!" 40 And Jesus stopped and commanded that he be brought to Him; and when he came near, He questioned him, 41 "What do you want Me to do for you?" And he said, "Lord, [I want] to regain my sight!" 42 And Jesus said to him, "Receive your sight; your faith has made you well." 43 Immediately he regained his sight and [began] following Him, glorifying God; and when all the people saw it, they gave praise to God.
SICK CHILDREN
  • [Matthew 15:21-28 NASB] 21 Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and [began] to cry out, saying, "Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed." 23 But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, "Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us." 24 But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." 25 But she came and [began] to bow down before Him, saying, "Lord, help me!" 26 And He answered and said, "It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs." 27 But she said, "Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters' table." 28 Then Jesus said to her, "O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish." And her daughter was healed at once.
SINNERS
  • [Luke 7:36-50 NASB] 36 Now one of the Pharisees was requesting Him to dine with him, and He entered the Pharisee's house and reclined [at the table.] 37 And there was a woman in the city who was a sinner; and when she learned that He was reclining [at the table] in the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster vial of perfume, 38 and standing behind [Him] at His feet, weeping, she began to wet His feet with her tears, and kept wiping them with the hair of her head, and kissing His feet and anointing them with the perfume. 39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet He would know who and what sort of person this woman is who is touching Him, that she is a sinner." 40 And Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." And he replied, "Say it, Teacher." 41 "A moneylender had two debtors: one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42 "When they were unable to repay, he graciously forgave them both. So which of them will love him more?" 43 Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have judged correctly." 44 Turning toward the woman, He said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has wet My feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 "You gave Me no kiss; but she, since the time I came in, has not ceased to kiss My feet. 46 "You did not anoint My head with oil, but she anointed My feet with perfume. 47 "For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little." 48 Then He said to her, "Your sins have been forgiven." 49 Those who were reclining [at the table] with Him began to say to themselves, "Who is this [man] who even forgives sins?" 50 And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
LEPERS
  • [Luke 17:11-19 NASB] 11 While He was on the way to Jerusalem, He was passing between Samaria and Galilee. 12 As He entered a village, ten leprous men who stood at a distance met Him; 13 and they raised their voices, saying, "Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!" 14 When He saw them, He said to them, "Go and show yourselves to the priests." And as they were going, they were cleansed. 15 Now one of them, when he saw that he had been healed, turned back, glorifying God with a loud voice, 16 and he fell on his face at His feet, giving thanks to Him. And he was a Samaritan. 17 Then Jesus answered and said, "Were there not ten cleansed? But the nine--where are they? 18 "Was no one found who returned to give glory to God, except this foreigner?" 19 And He said to him, "Stand up and go; your faith has made you well."
 

MoreCoffee

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There are lots of scriptures ABOUT Faith, and people like to argue about where Faith comes from, but WHAT IS Faith?
Is faith the same as belief, or is it something more?

Faith (in Greek 'pistis') means belief but because the Greek word isn't exactly the same as the English word 'belief' it is often translated 'faith'. Faith in English has various meanings. The Oxford online dictionary gives these meanings for the word:
1Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
‘this restores one's faith in politicians’

2 Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
‘bereaved people who have shown supreme faith’

2.1 A particular religion.
‘the Christian faith’

2.2 A strongly held belief.
‘men with strong political faiths’​
Those definitions give a rather good assessment of the meaning of the word in English.

But since the holy scriptures were not written in English the meaning of "faith" in holy scripture may differ significantly from its meaning in English. An accurate bible dictionary may offer some insight into the intended meaning of the word in Greek and in Hebrew.
Studying the word “faith” in the light of use and contexts, we find a bifurcation of significance in the Bible. We may distinguish the two senses as the passive and the active; on the one side, “fidelity,” “trustworthiness”; and “faith,” “trust,” on the other. In Gal 5:22, e.g. context makes it clear that “fidelity” is in view, as a quality congruous with the associated graces. (the Revised Version (British and American) accordingly renders pistis there by “faithfulness.”) Again, Rom 3:3 the King James Version, “the faith of God,” by the nature of the case, means His fidelity to promise. But in the overwhelming majority of cases, “faith,” as rendering pistis, means “reliance,” “trust.” To illustrate would be to quote many scores of passages. It may be enough here to call attention to the recorded use of the word by our Lord. Of about twenty passages in the Gospels where pistis occurs as coming from His lips, only one (Mat 23:23) presents it in the apparent sense of “fidelity.” All the others conspicuously demand the sense of “reliance,” “trust.” The same is true of the apostolic writings. In them, with rarest exceptions, the words “reliance,” “trust,” precisely fit the context as alternatives to “faith.”​

If "faith" means "trust" then the question of its source is partially solved because a person gives his/her trust to another by an act of his/her will. for example, I might say "I will trust you on this" meaning that I will give my trust to you on this matter. In the example just given it would be the same for me to say "I will put my faith in you for this". Trust is something given by the trusting party to another party on specific matters and in some cases on all matters, for example one might say "I trust you implicitly my friend" meaning that when this friend speaks or acts even if it is in unusual circumstances and about an unusual thing the giver of the trust will not withdraw his/her trust even in these unusual circumstances.

Religious faith is similar. But there is a difference between trust and religious faith that relates to the object of the faith. The difference is that the one to whom trust is given is God. God is inherently invisible and in daily experience inaudible and undetectable by the senses and instrumentation which is why faith in religious usage has more meaning than simply trusting. It is trusting an undetectable entity (being). And that is the cause of a great deal of difficulty with meanings and applications of the word "faith" in English.
 

MennoSota

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Then why are the 12 called His disciples?


Arsenios
Because they were called by, chosen by and followed Christ Jesus.
They are not called "the 12 people who learned how to build their own faith."
 

Arsenios

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Because they were called by, chosen by and followed Christ Jesus.
They are not called "the 12 people who learned how to build their own faith."

They are Christ's Disciples, my Brother...

Because Christ discipled them...

Then commanded that they disciple all the nations...


Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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They are Christ's Disciples, my Brother...

Because Christ discipled them...

Then commanded that they disciple all the nations...


Arsenios
Which has nothing to do with the gift of faith...
 

Arsenios

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Which has nothing to do with the gift of faith...

The discipling of all the nations IS the Gift of the Faith Christ Discipled to the Apostles...

Through that discipling God Calls the Nations to repentance and Baptizes them into Christ...

For 2000 years...


Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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The discipling of all the nations IS the Gift of the Faith Christ Discipled to the Apostles...
I disagree. I believe you are way off.

Through that discipling God Calls the Nations to repentance and Baptizes them into Christ...
I disagree.
Through the preaching of the good news and the reading of the good news (Jesus atonement pardons you when you believe. The Spirit of God adopts you and baptizes you into Christ. God gives you the gift of faith. You repent as you see how disobedient you have been. You are brought to repentance over and over as God keeps sanctifying you.) people are drawn to Christ as their Redeemer. They are gifted faith.

For 2000 years...
Sin God extended grace at the Fall...
 

Pedrito

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==============================================================================================

Post #8 (atpollard):
Ephesians 2:8
“For by grace [feminine] are ye saved [masculine] through faith [feminine]; and that [neuter] not of yourselves: it [neuter] is the gift of God:”

“That” and “it”, being [neuter] cannot refer to either the [feminine] “grace” or the [feminine] “faith” or the [masculine] “saved” alone. The only meaning that makes sense from Greek grammar is for the [neuter] pronouns to refer to both the [feminine] and [masculine] nouns collectively.

So “that” and “it” both refer to “saved by grace through faith” (the whole thing).

So once again it would seem that the idea is being promulgated that people are deemed worthy in God’s eyes, depending on how much faith God has injected into them, rather than on the basis of their heart-felt response.

==============================================================================================

I’m not sure that is the idea that the Writer to the Hebrews is trying to convey in Hebrews Chapter 11. I refer again to Hebrews 11:2; Hebrews 11:4; Hebrews 11:5; Hebrews 11:6; Hebrews 11:7,8,9,10,11.

These all speak of an internally generated, praiseworthy faith. Otherwise, they are being accounted worthy by God, based on a faith that has nothing to do with them, but was injected into them by that same God. (It would seem that there’s some kind of circular reasoning in there somewhere.) The references provided in Post #27 would also seem a little orphaned. Would they not?


==============================================================================================
 

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==============================================================================================

Lämmchen, Post #7:
You posted verses claiming that faith comes from something that man creats within him. But those verses do not say that at all. Is Jesus not the author and perfecter of your faith?

Hebrews 12:2: Looking unto [consider attentively, turning the eyes away from other things and fixing them on] Jesus the author [chief leader, He that took the lead and thus affords an example, our predecessor, pioneer] and finisher [completer, i.e. consummater, one who has in his own person raised faith to its perfection and so set before us the highest example of faith] of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Not one hint of injected faith, notice. Not one. Therefore, is this another clear example of misdirection – implying that a verse or passage of Scripture teaches something that it does not?


==============================================================================================
 

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==============================================================================================

Lämmchen, Post #7:


Hebrews 12:2: Looking unto [consider attentively, turning the eyes away from other things and fixing them on] Jesus the author [chief leader, He that took the lead and thus affords an example, our predecessor, pioneer] and finisher [completer, i.e. consummater, one who has in his own person raised faith to its perfection and so set before us the highest example of faith] of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Not one hint of injected faith, notice. Not one. Therefore, is this another clear example of misdirection – implying that a verse or passage of Scripture teaches something that it does not?


==============================================================================================

You haven't proven that faith comes from within Man apart from God.
 

atpollard

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[Heb 12:2 NASB] 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author [G747] and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

STRONGS NT 747: ἀρχηγός
ἀρχηγός, -όν, adjective, leading, furnishing the first cause or occasion: Euripides, Hipp. 881; Plato, Crat., p. 401 d.; chiefly used as a substantive, ὁ, ἡ, ἀρχηγός (ἀρχή and ἄγω);
1. the chief leader, prince: of Christ, Acts 5:31; (Aeschylus Ag. 259; Thucydides 1, 132; Sept. Isaiah 3:5; 2 Chronicles 23:14, and often).
2. one that takes the lead in anything (1 Macc. 10:47, ἀρχ. λόγων εἰρηνικῶν) and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter: τῆς πίστεως, of Christ, Hebrews 12:2 (who in the pre-eminence of his faith far surpassed the examples of faith commemorated in Hebrews 11), [others bring this under the next head; yet cf. Kurtz at the passage]. So ἀρχηγός ἁμαρτίας, Micah 1:13; ζήλους, Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 14, 1; τῆς στάσεως καὶ διχοστασίας, ibid. 51, 1; τῆς ἀποστασίας, of the devil, Irenaeus 4, 40, 1; τοιαύτης φιλοσοφίας, of Thales, Aristotle, met. 1, 3, 7 [p. 983b 20]. Hence,
3. the author: τῆς ζωῆς, Acts 3:15; τῆς σωτηρίας, Hebrews 2:10. (Often so in secular authors: τῶν πάντων, of God, [Plato] Tim. Locr., p. 96 c.; τοῦ γένους τῶν ἀνθρώπων, of God, Diodorus 5, 72; ἀρχηγὸς καὶ αἴτιος, leader and author, are often joined, as Polybius 1, 66, 10; Herodian, 2, 6, 22 [14, Bekker edition]). Cf. Bleek on Heb. vol. ii. 1, p. 301f.

Could go either way. Not a “slam dunk” for God created faith, but not completely out of the fight either.
To me that suggests that God has a more complex truth in operation than “theological sound bites”.
 

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==============================================================================================

Lämmchen, Post #37:
You haven't proven that faith comes from within Man apart from God.

One ploy after another.

This time we see an attempt to make the people who do not share Lämmchen’s perspective, shoulder the burden of proving their idea correct.

However, Lämmchen and the like minded have already shown themselves guilty of presenting “proof” scriptures that in fact do not offer the support claimed. Therefore, the onus is actually on them to support their perspective, by:
- Present scriptures which would void any invalid ones already presented;
- Tender a significant collection of scripture references which demonstrate unequivocally that people can have faith only if God gives them that faith to start with.

Failing that, does not the perspective promulgated by Lämmchen show itself to lack proper Scriptural basis? And if proper Scriptural basis is lacking, what is the demonstrable origin of that belief?

==============================================================================================
==============================================================================================

Ploys are a technique used only when there is a recognised need to employ them – they are used only when there is a demonstrable lack of Scriptural and logical support for a cherished belief or a cherished set of beliefs.

If the belief (or belief set) is considered more important than Holy Scripture, then ploys (or other techniques that have been mentioned in the past) become the weapons of choice.

Does it not appear that the fact that the God of Honesty and Truth is watching, seems to be of little consequence once the use of a ploy is decided upon?


==============================================================================================
 

psalms 91

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Why is it that everything must become so complicated? No wonder those outside the church want no part of it. Either you believe or you dont real simple not twisted and turned every which way trying to turn everything into a debate and concern, it really is that simple
 
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