Was the blood moon experience a disappointment?

[psalms 91]

I can't help thinking there's a happy medium here.

If you want to present a case for something you really need to be willing to back the case and explain why you believe in it. Some people will disagree, and if all you want to do is make a succession of statements and not back them with anything concrete I'd have to wonder what purpose there is in making the statements in the first place.

Even if the other guy doesn't change his mind a meaningful discussion with questions both ways can fine-tune just what it is you believe and encourage you to consider what it is you believe and why you believe it. If every disagreement between people is just met with "oh well, to each his own" then neither side learns anything. If "iron sharpens iron" it makes little sense for either side to just shrug and figure "oh well, you disagree, that's fine" unless they plan to withdraw from any discussion that might prove contentious. If people want to talk about the weather and their hobbies and what food they feed their dogs and whatever else they can obviously do that, it just seems odd to initiate a discussion on something that may have great significance and then not follow through on it.

The big problem with this is that human reasoning will never trump God and it takes spiritual to understand spiritual, flesh never will and mans reasoning never will either. I have heard Gods voice and I know it when He speaks to me, how many here would believe that? I have seen the level of belief here and it leaves me thinking no point in talking about healing, hearing God, God meeting my needs and even a few wants, as I said once I can see where people are at then I will leave them to it. Blood moons was a good example, what little scripture I did use was met with to general, to vauge so why bother. There is ample evidence of God warning His people in the bible but if someone chooses to ignore it then so be it, I will not waste my time arguing very long.

 

[tango]

The big problem with this is that human reasoning will never trump God and it takes spiritual to understand spiritual, flesh never will and mans reasoning never will either.

Up to a point you are right, but when Jesus said we were to love God with all of our minds it suggests we should be using the intellectual gifts God has given us. To simply suspend our reasoning completely can lead us down all sorts of blind alleyways. As I've said in a few threads the whole concept of "test all things" requires an objective standard by which to test and if all we've got is claims that "my spirit bears witness with" then the best we have is something that will apply to us. If, for example, God gives me a personal conviction that I shouldn't wear a blue shirt with green pants then I am free to follow that conviction to the ends of the earth if I truly believe in it, but to claim that someone else should follow my newly found fashion preferences starts to break the process because God never gave them the same conviction. (I know the shirt with pants example is silly, I just don't want to risk a derail onto more realistic concerns

I have heard Gods voice and I know it when He speaks to me, how many here would believe that?

It doesn't matter if anyone believes it, if God is speaking to you for your own benefit. If God is saying to you "Bill, put on your blue shirt and your green pants and walk slowly around the parking lot praying for Azerbaijan" then it's up to you whether you believe it's God speaking and it's up to you whether you actually do what you believe God is saying. But if you come to me with those words I'll follow the Scriptural call to test them and may conclude either that whatever you heard wasn't God, or that it was God but not intended for me, or that it wasn't God but a good idea anyway, or that it was God and intended for me. Either way I'll perform my own testing on it, and that testing will include comparison to Scripture and comparison to what I believe God is saying to me.

I have seen the level of belief here and it leaves me thinking no point in talking about healing, hearing God, God meeting my needs and even a few wants,

This is where we seem to come back to the happy medium. In one of your threads you were saying that WOF teaching is that God's will is always to heal. You can talk about individual healings until you're blue in the face but it doesn't provide any support to the original premise that "God always heals". So what you're seeing is a combination of people disbelieving individual examples and people disbelieving the original teaching, but what you seem to be seeing (and correct me if I'm wrong on this) is a generic "people just don't believe", which isn't the case at all.

as I said once I can see where people are at then I will leave them to it. Blood moons was a good example, what little scripture I did use was met with to general, to vauge so why bother.

The Scripture you did provide was very generic. Unless you can demonstrate why the Scripture you quote is relevant to the situation there's no point adding it. I could quote Amos 4:6 but unless I can show how it relates to the topic at hand it adds nothing at all, and if anything can easily come across as trying to spiritualise a secular concept or even a near-passive-aggressive way of kinda-sorta-saying something but in a way that provides for an offended "I never said that" response. (In case you were wondering Amos 4:6 has nothing whatsoever to do with what we're saying and I'm not trying to make any statement or implication regarding your teeth)

There is ample evidence of God warning His people in the bible but if someone chooses to ignore it then so be it, I will not waste my time arguing very long.

There is plenty of evidence of God warning his people. The bit that's missing is the link between "God warned people in the past" and "This is a specific warning". What makes the blood moons special, while Halley's comet and Hale-Bopp and all the rest of them were not special? Unless you can show that all you've got is two unrelated issues - "God warns people" and "this thing happened in the sky" with nothing to link them together. Without the link all you have is speculation, and you should expect to have a speculative link questioned and challenged. If you can provide the reasoning for the link then you've got something to discuss, but without that there's little more to your side of the argument than "because I said so". And you're right back to asserting something without evidence and wondering why people dismiss it out of hand.

 

[psalms 91]

I appreciate your response and it still comes down to myself and many others do see signifigance in it and if others dont then I cant cahange that. Prophetic signs in the sky are nothing new, God warning is nothing new. Yopu can either accept that it is or not. Just as 9-11 can be explained as just a bunch of radicals but it is much deeper than that, it was a wake up call to America which we have ignored. We have not turned back to God and the country keeps getting worse and worse and if you follow the warnings Israel had and what happened to them then you can see exactly where America is at but most will not acceppt that either and it is very plain.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I appreciate your response and it still comes down to myself and many others do see signifigance in it and if others dont then I cant cahange that. Prophetic signs in the sky are nothing new, God warning is nothing new. Yopu can either accept that it is or not. Just as 9-11 can be explained as just a bunch of radicals but it is much deeper than that, it was a wake up call to America which we have ignored. We have not turned back to God and the country keeps getting worse and worse and if you follow the warnings Israel had and what happened to them then you can see exactly where America is at but most will not acceppt that either and it is very plain.

What has be wondering is why anybody thinks that four lunar total eclipses in a row with whatever other conditions John Hagee sets is what the bible calls "the moon shall turn as blood"?

 

[visionary]

Hebrew mind set.... It is the way the Rabbi's look at it. ... They were the ones who made the connection long before it became popular with this last run.

 

[tango]

I appreciate your response and it still comes down to myself and many others do see signifigance in it and if others dont then I cant cahange that.

If you could only explain why you see such significance in it then others may come to agree with you. As it stands all you've done is pointed out two things that aren't obviously related and insisted they are related because, well, you believe they are. Then you don't understand why people don't line up to agree. The arguments you've presented could be used, word-for-word, to support the people who committed suicide as Hale-Bopp approached believing they would be spirited away. After all, the Bible does say that God provides signs in the heavens, right?

Prophetic signs in the sky are nothing new, God warning is nothing new. Yopu can either accept that it is or not.

You can accept it without accepting your additional assumptions, which is pretty much the point I was trying to make but doesn't seem to be getting through. Nobody is saying that God doesn't give signs. What I'm saying is that you need more than "It's a sign" to demonstrate that it is, in fact, a sign. Is Halley's Comet a sign? Was Hale-Bopp a sign? Was the Perseid meteor shower a sign? How do you determine which Unusual Thing In The Sky is a sign from God and which is not?

Just as 9-11 can be explained as just a bunch of radicals but it is much deeper than that, it was a wake up call to America which we have ignored. We have not turned back to God and the country keeps getting worse and worse and if you follow the warnings Israel had and what happened to them then you can see exactly where America is at but most will not acceppt that either and it is very plain.

Perhaps, but that's a totally unrelated issue to whether or not the blood moons were significant. You're pulling different arguments and trying to string them all together when they don't have a whole lot in common. By the same token I could argue that my aging correlates to a rise in godlessness and therefore the solution is for me to find an elixir of youth to reverse the decline. Or, put another way, correlation does not imply causality. And when even the correlation is uncertain at best the claims of causality become even harder to believe. Throw in a general reluctance to talk in any detail, given they way you do seem very prone to make a statement and refuse to back it with anything more concrete than "well if you don't believe I'll leave you to it" and it's hard to see how you expect anything to come around to your way of thinking.

I've engaged with you in many threads now and still have no idea why you believe what you do because just about every time I've asked questions about it all I get is evasion and diversion mixed with the resignation of "well whatever you want to believe is up to you".

 

[visionary]

They look at scripture a lot differently than most Christians would. For example.. They look at each letter. Hebrew word for blood, dam, which is 44, alludes to the 44th president of the United States. They always see it in relationship to the Jewish people. The 44th president would bring bloodshed (dam) to the Jewish people is one of the things they see. It talks to them. The repeated number four in the value of 44 and the four Blood Moons of the tetrad, this will be the shortest total lunar eclipse of the 21st century, lasting a mere four minutes, 44 seconds.

The Talmud states, “In [the Hebrew month of] Nisan our forefathers were redeemed from Egypt, and in Nisan we will be redeemed.” Likewise, the Feast of the Tabernacles is associated in Jewish tradition with the battle of Gog and Magog, the final war that is said to precede the final redemption and arrival of the Messiah. Making these connections for years, the Rabbi's have come to the conclusion that and it is stated in the Talmud that a solar eclipse is a warning to the nations, while a lunar eclipse signifies danger for the Jewish people, who are likened to the moon.

Beginning at Jerusalem.... Ends in Jerusalem...

 

[MoreCoffee]

What has be wondering is why anybody thinks that four lunar total eclipses in a row with whatever other conditions John Hagee sets is what the bible calls "the moon shall turn as blood"?

Hebrew mind set.... It is the way the Rabbi's look at it. ... They were the ones who made the connection long before it became popular with this last run.

When is this Rabbinic connection documented as first happening?

 

[visionary]

They see war... and God's hand in it...
A blood moon coincided with the Six Day War in 1967, when Israel liberated Jerusalem.
There was also a blood moon on the eve of Israel’s declaration of independence in 1948 which included war on all sides.
There was a blood moon in 1493, when Tomas de Torquemada, the first Spanish Inquisitor, began slaughtering Jews.
and the list goes on....

They have a different attitude towards all this. They fear not because of them. They feel forewarned.
“When the Jews perform the will of God, they need not worry about omens [or celestial phenomenon]. Thus says the Lord ‘Do not be frightened by the signs of the heavens.’” (Talmud Sukkah 29a)

 

[MoreCoffee]

They see war... and God's hand in it...
A blood moon coincided with the Six Day War in 1967, when Israel liberated Jerusalem.
There was also a blood moon on the eve of Israel’s declaration of independence in 1948 which included war on all sides.
There was a blood moon in 1493, when Tomas de Torquemada, the first Spanish Inquisitor, began slaughtering Jews.
and the list goes on....

They have a different attitude towards all this. They fear not because of them. They feel forewarned.
“When the Jews perform the will of God, they need not worry about omens [or celestial phenomenon]. Thus says the Lord ‘Do not be frightened by the signs of the heavens.’” (Talmud Sukkah 29a)

So all of this is definitely after the period when the holy scriptures were written and hence has nothing to do with biblical texts that mention the moon being as blood.

 

[tango]

I found an article about the four blood moons:

http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/3...raeli-rabbi-jewish-world/#SMhQLF3p4ozkowVx.97

From the article:

The Blood Moon phenomenon has attracted much attention of late thanks to the efforts and solar discoveries by Root Source’s Bob O’Dell and Gidon Ariel. Not everyone is an agreement as to what the Blood Moons signify. According to O’Dell, “All the prior blood moon tetrads point to a pattern of blessing on the Jewish people. They are good news for the Jews. They are a great indicator of God’s love and commitment to the Jewish people to preserve them, and a warning to those who stand in opposition to Israel.”

So normally a blood moon tetrad signifies great blessing but apparently this one represents a great danger. The article said it's the fourth time in 500 years that the blood moons occurred on Jewish feast days, but doesn't say why the other three apparently weren't as significant, or how they may have been significant.

If there is more to this it would be interesting to see it. I find the incidence of so many 4's in visionary's post curious, not sure if it's relevant but it's certainly more thought provoking than the speculation.

 

[visionary]

So all of this is definitely after the period when the holy scriptures were written and hence has nothing to do with biblical texts that mention the moon being as blood.

?? all prophecies happen after the prophecy is written... and the fact that these are recorded in biblical texts states that "blood moons" are prophetic.

 

[tango]

So all of this is definitely after the period when the holy scriptures were written and hence has nothing to do with biblical texts that mention the moon being as blood.

As visionary said the prophecy must be recorded before it can be fulfilled. Otherwise all you have is retrospective analysis, which can be interesting from all sorts of perspectives but can't really be called prophecy.

Do you believe all the Biblical prophecies have been fulfilled, including things like the rise of the beast described in Revelation?

 

[MoreCoffee]

?? all prophecies happen after the prophecy is written... and the fact that these are recorded in biblical texts states that "blood moons" are prophetic.

The point made in my post is that the meaning associated with "moon as blood" was, at the time the prophets wrote, not that there'd be four lunar total eclipses in a row and whatever other rules John Hagee made for a "blood moon".

 

[Hammster]

Hebrew mind set.... It is the way the Rabbi's look at it. ... They were the ones who made the connection long before it became popular with this last run.

Ah, so it really isn't biblical. Thanks.

 

[psalms 91]

Ah, so it really isn't biblical. Thanks.

Really?

 

[Hammster]

Really?

Apparently. Nothing has yet to be offered up.

 

[psalms 91]

And you keep tearing down anything offered. Studying Jewish roots and thoughts is a good thing not bad. You can learn a lot that way if you really want to but many do not so they remain uneducated in the roots of Christianity

 

[Hammster]

And you keep tearing down anything offered. Studying Jewish roots and thoughts is a good thing not bad. You can learn a lot that way if you really want to but many do not so they remain uneducated in the roots of Christianity

All you've offered is criticism of my skepticism, which is biblical because of the command to test all things. You've offered nothing that can be tested.

 

[MoreCoffee]

As visionary said the prophecy must be recorded before it can be fulfilled. Otherwise all you have is retrospective analysis, which can be interesting from all sorts of perspectives but can't really be called prophecy.

Do you believe all the Biblical prophecies have been fulfilled, including things like the rise of the beast described in Revelation?

The point made in my post is that the meaning associated with "moon as blood" was, at the time the prophets wrote, not that there'd be four lunar total eclipses in a row and whatever other rules John Hagee made for a "blood moon".