Saved from what?

[MoreCoffee]

One doesn't contribute fruit. One bears fruit.

And those who do not bear fruit are cut off and cast into the fire as the word of the Lord says:

John 15:6 RSV If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.​

 

[Hammster]

And those who do not bear fruit are cut off and cast into the fire as the word of the Lord says:

John 15:6 RSV If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.​

So are you saying that bearing fruit is a sign of being saved?

 

[MoreCoffee]

So are you saying that bearing fruit is a sign of being saved?

Without holiness no flesh shall be saved.

Hebrews 12:14 RSV Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.​

 

[Hammster]

Without holiness no flesh shall be saved.

Hebrews 12:14 RSV Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.​

Could you please answer the question I asked? I'm not sure what question you are answering, but it was not mine.

 

[MoreCoffee]

So are you saying that bearing fruit is a sign of being saved?

Without holiness no flesh shall be saved.

Hebrews 12:14 RSV Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.​

Could you please answer the question I asked? I'm not sure what question you are answering, but it was not mine.

The second quote does answer your question and it gives scripture for it. One is not holy merely by imputation and one is not saved by merely claiming to be saved. Bearing fruit is not a sign of being "saved" it is an essential element in the salvation of the faithful under ordinary circumstances. Playing this game with words like "imputed" is only obfuscating the clear teaching of Christ in John 15:1-8 and following.

 

[Hammster]

The second quote does answer your question and it gives scripture for it. One is not holy merely by imputation and one is not saved by merely claiming to be saved. Bearing fruit is not a sign of being "saved" it is an essential element in the salvation of the faithful under ordinary circumstances. Playing this game with words like "imputed" is only obfuscating the clear teaching of Christ in John 15:1-8 and following.

Bearing fruit, according to you, is required. But if one bears fruit, it isn't a sign that one is saved? That makes no sense.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Bearing fruit, according to you, is required. But if one bears fruit, it isn't a sign that one is saved? That makes no sense.

Bearing fruit is bearing fruit; in the passage it is explained as,

John 15:10 RSV If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.​

keeping the commandments of the Lord Jesus Christ is bearing fruit.

 

[Hammster]

Bearing fruit is bearing fruit; in the passage it is explained as,

John 15:10 RSV If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.​

keeping the commandments of the Lord Jesus Christ is bearing fruit.

So bearing fruit is a sign (indication) that one is saved. Can we agree on that?

 

[MoreCoffee]

So bearing fruit is a sign (indication) that one is saved. Can we agree on that?

I do not agree with your statement that "bearing fruit is a sign (indication) that one is saved" because bearing fruit is a requirement for abiding in Christ and abiding in Christ leads to salvation. There's no mention of a 'sign' called 'bearing fruit'.

 

[Hammster]

I do not agree with your statement that "bearing fruit is a sign (indication) that one is saved" because bearing fruit is a requirement for abiding in Christ and abiding in Christ leads to salvation. There's no mention of a 'sign' called 'bearing fruit'.

So the fruit comes from you, and not Christ?

 

[MoreCoffee]

So the fruit comes from you, and not Christ?

The Lord Jesus Christ is the vine, the faithful are the branches, they cannot bear fruit except by being in him and they remain in him by bearing fruit; that is they obey his commandments. The passage is not difficult to understand for the faithful.

John 15:1-10 GNB (1) "I am the real vine, and my Father is the gardener. (2) He breaks off every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and he prunes every branch that does bear fruit, so that it will be clean and bear more fruit. (3) You have been made clean already by the teaching I have given you. (4) Remain united to me, and I will remain united to you. A branch cannot bear fruit by itself; it can do so only if it remains in the vine. In the same way you cannot bear fruit unless you remain in me.

(5) "I am the vine, and you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will bear much fruit; for you can do nothing without me. (6) Those who do not remain in me are thrown out like a branch and dry up; such branches are gathered up and thrown into the fire, where they are burned. (7) If you remain in me and my words remain in you, then you will ask for anything you wish, and you shall have it. (8) My Father's glory is shown by your bearing much fruit; and in this way you become my disciples. (9) I love you just as the Father loves me; remain in my love. (10) If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.​

 

[Hammster]

So if the fruit we bear comes from Him, bearing fruit is indicative of being saved. The unsaved cannot bear fruit.

 

[MoreCoffee]

So if the fruit we bear comes from Him, bearing fruit is indicative of being saved. The unsaved cannot bear fruit.

Try again; the words you need are in the passage.

John 15:1-10 CEV (1) Jesus said to his disciples: I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. (2) He cuts away every branch of mine that doesn't produce fruit. But he trims clean every branch that does produce fruit, so that it will produce even more fruit. (3) You are already clean because of what I have said to you. (4) Stay joined to me, and I will stay joined to you. Just as a branch cannot produce fruit unless it stays joined to the vine, you cannot produce fruit unless you stay joined to me. (5) I am the vine, and you are the branches. If you stay joined to me, and I stay joined to you, then you will produce lots of fruit. But you cannot do anything without me. (6) If you don't stay joined to me, you will be thrown away. You will be like dry branches that are gathered up and burned in a fire. (7) Stay joined to me and let my teachings become part of you. Then you can pray for whatever you want, and your prayer will be answered. (8) When you become fruitful disciples of mine, my Father will be honored. (9) I have loved you, just as my Father has loved me. So remain faithful to my love for you. (10) If you obey me, I will keep loving you, just as my Father keeps loving me, because I have obeyed him.​

 

[Hammster]

If I cannot produce fruit unless joined to Him, where is the source of the fruit? It's Him. So bearing fruit is indicative of being in Him, i.e. being saved.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If I cannot produce fruit unless joined to Him, where is the source of the fruit? It's Him. So bearing fruit is indicative of being in Him, i.e. being saved.

Who produces the fruit? You wrote "If I cannot produce fruit unless ..." surely you are acknowledging what the Lord teaches despite the attempt in the rest of your post to deny it; it is the branches that bear fruit and vine is the source of the life in the branches nevertheless some branches do not produce fruit and are consequently removed from the vine and cast into the fire.

 

[Brighten04]

i am . i also am aware of his warnings to abide in him . and his call to be holy unto the lord .i am also aware how few seek him to remain that way . i am also aware that many are daily being self deceived and collectively into thinking they can continue in sin after they receive forgiveness and still not repent but go an do it again .. if they do not repent they will not enter the kingdom of heaven,, this is just as sure as his salvation .

Dear brother, you have to be transformed by the renewing of your mind: You are Holy because Jesus is Holy and He is in You and you are in Him. You are walking around with the very Spirit of the living God indwelling your body. Now if a person desires to go and willfully commit sin, over and over they are not saved.There is no way someone saved will willfully commit sin over and over because when a person gets saved and filled with the Holy Ghost they lose the desire to commit sin period. And the Holy Ghost helps by restraining and warning the person so he/she will not commit sin. If he/she sins Jesus Christ our advocate charges it to His account. The church is weak because people do not understand this.It is the mystery that satan hid from believers by all of the religious mumbo jumbo that people have wrongfully believed for centuries. It is not about you brother. It is about Jesus Christ in you, in me, in us! We have been crucified with Christ now we no longer live but Christ is living in us! How can someone with the Holy One inside him live in perpetual sin? Before our Father loses one of His sons or daughters to sin He will call them home.Jesus's blood removed the stain of sin from our spirit man. However the mind has to be renewed because it has been trained in sin. That is why we daily wash our minds by the renewing of the Word of God. It is not hard to understand. When you gave your life to Christ it does not belong to you anymore, you gave it to Him! He is your owner! You are His property! Your body is His Temple. And He is all powerful! How can anyone take anything from Him?Romans puts it this way.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.


Remember the Gospel is Good News! Grab hold of it.

 

[Hammster]

Why did I say that I cannot produce fruit unless connected to the vine? Because it's the vine that supplies everything. A branch apart from the vine is useless. So bearing fruit is indicative of being in Christ.

Note what He didn't say. He never said that those who no longer bear fruit will be removed. He did, however, say that those who bear fruit will bear even more. And not because of our work, but because of His.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why did I say that I cannot produce fruit unless connected to the vine? Because it's the vine that supplies everything. A branch apart from the vine is useless. So bearing fruit is indicative of being in Christ.

Note what He didn't say. He never said that those who no longer bear fruit will be removed. He did, however, say that those who bear fruit will bear even more. And not because of our work, but because of His.

The vine does not provide fruit. This is obvious especially in the case of branches that produce no fruit yet are in the vine until they are removed and cast aside to be burned.

 

[Hammster]

The vine does not provide fruit. This is obvious especially in the case of branches that produce no fruit yet are in the vine until they are removed and cast aside to be burned.

And in the context of not only what the disciples were going through, but in context of the book of John, it's obvious that He was explaining that some might look like they are in Him, but they are actually dead. They will be removed. You cannot have someone who is saved who does not bear fruit. Period.

 

[Josiah]

The LAW is that we be morally perfect... that we LOVE all 7.2 billion people on the planet as Jesus did as He died on the Cross for us.... that we make disciples of all 7.2 billion people on the planet.... Those aren't recommendations, they aren't suggestions, they aren't goals.... they are commands.

Can we? No. Will we? No. We need to fall to our knees! We need to realize our profound need for MERCY, forgiveness, salvation! We need to cry out, "Lord have MERCY on me, the sinner!" We need to look to the Cross where we find mercy, not in the mirror where we find condemnation, sin, self-centeredness, lovelessness, unrighteousness... We might - in some outward ways - be "better" than some bozo we might find, but we must not let us think I'M therefore "good."

LORD, HAVE MERCY!
CHRIST, HAVE MERCY!
LORD, HAVE MERCY!


Now.... for the Christian, for the saved, for the justified, for the child of God - the law has a SECOND purpose, to show us the will of God, to be a light for our path, to show us how God desires us to be: we'll NEVER achieve it (because we cannot be PERFECT from the microsecond of our conception) but it's held up as the eternal, unchanging plumbline. But even here, in this SECOND function, it condemns, kills, rebukes..... and drives us to our knees. "Chief of sinners though I be....."



Pax


- Josiah