Regeneration

[Andrew]

I would say at some point, if one heard the right gospel, the next thing would be to obey what they heard.

We should obey, without it Faith is dead. I agree, who doesn't agree?

 

[MoreCoffee]

We should obey, without it Faith is dead. I agree, who doesn't agree?

Me; I do not agree that works without faith are especially good, they may be okay, but not gloriously good

 

[MennoSota]

We should obey, without it Faith is dead. I agree, who doesn't agree?

It is impossible for faith to be dead. This is James point. People can claim to be Christians and say they have faith (believe), but their action will reveal their faith. Faith, God given faith, is active. It trusts God in the storm. It empowers the believer to swim and believe that God cannot be stopped or hindered. No will of man nor will of demons can stop the progress of the King and his army. Faith empowers us to keep marching.
Faith is not real if it does not empower in actions. This does not mean, as MC asserts, that humans must generate their own works to supplement a passive concept of faith. It's not as if works are on one side and faith is on the other and if we do not infuse our own works into faith then faith will die. No. That's absurd.
Faith is imbued with power that works mightily in the child of the King. Faith generates and empowers works. When you see no work in a person claiming to be a Christian, you see a person whom God has never given the gift of faith. You see someone who is lying about their relationship with God and is merely following his slave master as an imitator.

 

[Josiah]

The Bible says that it is impossible to please God without faith. What is done without faith simply has no merit vis-a-vis God. It has a CIVIL good (it's nice to be nice) but not in terms of our relationship with God. THAT requires faith. Whatever is done before/without faith thus is not pleasing to GOD in terms of our relationship with Him. At least according to God.

 

[YourTruthGod]

We should obey, without it Faith is dead. I agree, who doesn't agree?

You don't preach that. You preach a person is given faith from the Holy Spirit after doing NOTHING.

 

[YourTruthGod]

The facts demonstrate that the majority of infants baptised who live into years of responsibility do in fact believe and bear witness to their faith in Jesus Christ. It is also true that in teen years many abandon their beliefs. Some return to faith later in adulthood when they have children of their own or when they reconsider the rebelliousness of their youth.


On the contrary I see daily children who are of age professing Christ and every year I see dozens upon dozens professing their faith in Jesus Christ in public in Church before witnesses.

No, you can't contradict yourself. You preach the truth when you say we have to believe an obey; but then you preach falseness when you join a church that preaches infants are to get baptized and then they receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[Andrew]

You don't preach that. You preach a person is given faith from the Holy Spirit after doing NOTHING.

i believe only the Faithful can obey, without obedience (works) you have no Faith (its dead) THUS that sentence alone proves that Faith creates obedience provided via the Holy Spirit in you, so again a non obedient person of Faith lacks both faith and the Holy Spirit. In other words, WORKS without faith is dead, the NT preaches on this continually! You believe the Faithless can obey, that is incorrect! When Jesus would heal a man he would ask them first "do you have Faith?" why would he ask them that? Without Faith NOTHING you do according your works count as good works, we are Gods workmanship through Faith and the Holy Spirit in you, it's the free GIFT from God! The Faithless can not obey

 

[YourTruthGod]

i believe only the Faithful can obey,

Anyone can obey if they want to obey.

without obedience (works) you have no Faith (its dead)

Many people believe in God and Jesus but do not obey! That means their faith is dead.

THUS that sentence alone proves that Faith creates obedience provided via the Holy Spirit in you, so again a non obedient person of Faith lacks both faith and the Holy Spirit. In other words, WORKS without faith is dead, the NT preaches on this continually! You believe the Faithless can obey, that is incorrect!

Having faith IS OBEYING! It is how an unsaved person get saved, by obeying, by believing and right action, like REPENTING OF SINS.

When Jesus would heal a man he would ask them first "do you have Faith?" why would he ask them that?

According to your false teachings JESUS JUST GAVE THAT PERSON FAITH OR WITHHELD IT!

Without Faith NOTHING you do according your works count as good works, we are Gods workmanship through Faith and the Holy Spirit in you, it's the free GIFT from God! The Faithless can not obey

No such thing from the Bible what you preach.

According to you, Jesus saves the person FIRST by giving them faith! And then they obey!

That is false.

Jesus saves a person AFTER they get faith and right action.

 

[RichWh1]

No such thing from the Bible what you preach.

How do you explain Ephesians 2:8-10?

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8-10 - NASB


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[YourTruthGod]

How do you explain Ephesians 2:8-10?

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8-10 - NASB


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is about not of the purification works of the law.

Paul is explaining why, and how, after like 1,600 years of Jews doing purification works and being called clean---and the Gentiles NOT doing those works and being called UNCLEAN and without God---do not have to do those purification works anymore and so be saved.

 

[Andrew]

Anyone can obey if they want to obey.

Many people believe in God and Jesus but do not obey! That means their faith is dead.


Having faith IS OBEYING! It is how an unsaved person get saved, by obeying, by believing and right action, like REPENTING OF SINS.



According to your false teachings JESUS JUST GAVE THAT PERSON FAITH OR WITHHELD IT!



No such thing from the Bible what you preach.

I have never come across any person who can say "I don't have Faith in God but I am obedient to Him"!!!!! ONLY THE FAITHFUL CAN OBEY GOD!
You still make us sound like we are anti-works, that we reject his commands simply because we have Faith, who ever actually believes that I tell you that they are liers and never had faith to begin with. The faithful have many gifts, the gift of Grace, the gift of repentance and forgiveness, The gift of the Holy Spirit and new heart that composes charity and workmanship, The gift of everlasting life, The Gift of Faith and these ALL come from Heaven and from the Holy Spirit of GOD, YOU did not give yourselves these things, they all come from The LOVE of God. You want to brag of your works and you get a really pompous attitude about it giving NO credit to the one who offered these gifts to you!
You sound like a synergist, you must help Jesus because his works were not enough, THE HOLY SPIRIT GIVES YOU OBEDIENCE AS GODS WORKMANSHIP, THESE WORKS WERE ORDAINED TO YOU FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD! The good works you do are through the Holy Spirit NOT without it! And you cannot have the HOLY SPIRIT IF YOU HAVE NO FAITH!
You know what works salvation in the Catholic church is? It has nothing to do with charity imo, its about their penance and praying the rosary and confessing... THIS IS NOT THE WORKMANSHIP WORKS!
Those are traditions (which I respect) but it is not the workmanship works that God creates for you. 2 great commandments Love God and Love your neighbor, Love is another word for Charity in the Bible, Charity is our workmanship in obedience by Faith, when you see a hungry man on the side of the road to you walk by and just say "God bless you go find something to Eat"? The act of helping this man comes from your Faith and the Holy Spirit desiring that you help this fellow. Every thing you remember that GOD always comes first!
No Faith = No obedience, you must believe and have Faith to be Gods workmanship or your works are as filthy rags, works before Faith is but filthy rags, even devils obey Jesus when he draws them out of possessed peoples, when Satan enter Judas Jesus commanded him "what you must do do it quick"
Again obedience does NOT create Faith! faith creates graceful obedience and good works.
A Faithless man can not obey GOD! That is the biggest contradiction I have ever heard!!!
You say God does not save unbelievers, well God does not save the Faithless either, if they do good works (even atheist do amazingly good works) WITHOUT FAITH they are useless filthy rags!
And I end with this again
The Faithless can not obey God

 

[YourTruthGod]

I have never come across any person who can say "I don't have Faith in God but I am obedient to Him"!!!!!

BECAUSE IF THEY OBEY---THEY WILL HAVE FAITH!!!

 

[YourTruthGod]

I have never come across any person who can say "I don't have Faith in God but I am obedient to Him"!!!!! ONLY THE FAITHFUL CAN OBEY GOD!
You still make us sound like we are anti-works, that we reject his commands simply because we have Faith, who ever actually believes that I tell you that they are liers and never had faith to begin with. The faithful have many gifts, the gift of Grace, the gift of repentance and forgiveness, The gift of the Holy Spirit and new heart that composes charity and workmanship, The gift of everlasting life, The Gift of Faith and these ALL come from Heaven and from the Holy Spirit of GOD, YOU did not give yourselves these things, they all come from The LOVE of God. You want to brag of your works and you get a really pompous attitude about it giving NO credit to the one who offered these gifts to you!
You sound like a synergist, you must help Jesus because his works were not enough, THE HOLY SPIRIT GIVES YOU OBEDIENCE AS GODS WORKMANSHIP, THESE WORKS WERE ORDAINED TO YOU FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD! The good works you do are through the Holy Spirit NOT without it! And you cannot have the HOLY SPIRIT IF YOU HAVE NO FAITH!
You know what works salvation in the Catholic church is? It has nothing to do with charity imo, its about their penance and praying the rosary and confessing... THIS IS NOT THE WORKMANSHIP WORKS!
Those are traditions (which I respect) but it is not the workmanship works that God creates for you. 2 great commandments Love God and Love your neighbor, Love is another word for Charity in the Bible, Charity is our workmanship in obedience by Faith, when you see a hungry man on the side of the road to you walk by and just say "God bless you go find something to Eat"? The act of helping this man comes from your Faith and the Holy Spirit desiring that you help this fellow. Every thing you remember that GOD always comes first!
No Faith = No obedience, you must believe and have Faith to be Gods workmanship or your works are as filthy rags, works before Faith is but filthy rags, even devils obey Jesus when he draws them out of possessed peoples, when Satan enter Judas Jesus commanded him "what you must do do it quick"
Again obedience does NOT create Faith! faith creates graceful obedience and good works.
A Faithless man can not obey GOD! That is the biggest contradiction I have ever heard!!!
You say God does not save unbelievers, well God does not save the Faithless either, if they do good works (even atheist do amazingly good works) WITHOUT FAITH they are useless filthy rags!
And I end with this again
The Faithless can not obey God

People can OBEY GOD BEFORE THEY HAVE FAITH. READ THE SCRIPTURE John 7:17, AND, just because you have faith does NOT mean you will obey. You are still trying to stop smoking aren't you?

 

[MoreCoffee]

No, you can't contradict yourself. You preach the truth when you say we have to believe an obey; but then you preach falseness when you join a church that preaches infants are to get baptized and then they receive the Holy Spirit.

The Catholic Church teaches that all who are baptised receive the Holy Spirit with baptism and not that first you "get baptised" and then later you "receive the Holy Spirit". The Lord tell me that being born of water and the Spirit is what baptism is.

 

[MennoSota]

The Catholic Church teaches that all who are baptised receive the Holy Spirit with baptism and not that first you "get baptised" and then later you "receive the Holy Spirit". The Lord tell me that being born of water and the Spirit is what baptism is.

So people who are dead in their trespasses and sins get the Holy Spirit and then remain dead in their trespasses and sins because God never made them alive with Christ? Nah, you're wrong. God doesn't give His Spirit to dead people just cause your church tosses water on them and chants.

 

[Andrew]

So people who are dead in their trespasses and sins get the Holy Spirit and then remain dead in their trespasses and sins because God never made them alive with Christ? Nah, you're wrong. God doesn't give His Spirit to dead people just cause your church tosses water on them and chants.

I have pointed out to MC that Hitler was baptised the same year is was born... so he had the Holy Spirit did he?

 

[MennoSota]

I have pointed out to MC that Hitler was baptised the same year is was born... so he had the Holy Spirit did he?

It seems in MCs view, Hitler would have had to be spirit filled. However, the Bible doesn't teach what MC teaches.

 

[Andrew]

It seems in MCs view, Hitler would have had to be spirit filled. However, the Bible doesn't teach what MC teaches.

He was spirit filled... with the antichrist.

 

[MoreCoffee]

So people who are dead in their trespasses and sins get the Holy Spirit and then remain dead in their trespasses and sins because God never made them alive with Christ?

If you want to claim that all infants are born dead in trespasses and sins and will inevitably go on to live a life of debauchery and sin because they were not made alive in Christ at their baptism then I must disagree because both the Church and experience show that your claim is in error. And as far as adults who receive baptism in adulthood is concerned, they receive the Holy Spirit after they profess faith in Jesus Christ and receive him as their Lord and Saviour. These things happen before baptism and are affirmed in their baptismal vows at the time they are baptised.

Nah, you're wrong. God doesn't give His Spirit to dead people just cause your church tosses water on them and chants.

 

[YourTruthGod]

The Catholic Church teaches that all who are baptised receive the Holy Spirit with baptism and not that first you "get baptised" and then later you "receive the Holy Spirit". The Lord tell me that being born of water and the Spirit is what baptism is.

So then, you do NOT believe in obedience.