All About Faith

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Arsenios

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I will debate you on that. That could be another thread I make. I hope you come and discuss it with me.

I don't debate...

I will talk about it with you if you like...

Debating is for precocious sophomores, I say!



Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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What I was explaining to Menno was that water baptism was given before the Holy Spirit was yet to be given, because water baptism was given before Jesus died, rose again, and ascended back to heaven.

We receive the Holy Spirit before a water baptism now, or after, or maybe even during.

That can be [heck, it IS] true, but in Christ, the Holy Spirit's Grace is not Christian Salvation...


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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You should be more like the Apostle Paul then.

He debated much.

Acts 9:29 He talked and debated with the Grecian Jews, but they tried to kill him.

Acts 15:1 Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.

Acts 18:28
For he vigorously refuted the Jews in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

Acts 19:8-9 Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. But some of them became obstinate: they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them.

Debate is for my intellectual superiors, which most are...

I am more of a simple man of the Faith...


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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God given faith.
Who else would give it? Would you give it? Perhaps some other spirit gives it to you?
Hebrews 11:1 tells us what faith is. This is what God given faith looks like.
It is interesting to see you twist words around. Are you often this dishonest?

Well, you have personal beliefs, and you have the Faith of Christ...

The Faith of Christ is a Biblical term...

Are we back to name calling now???


Arsenios
 

atpollard

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Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Exactly so - It is an abstract pronoun referring to a prior understanding... Hence neuter...

The prior understanding is about being Saved by God...

So we are saved BY Grace - God's Grace...

We are saved BY this Grace THROUGH the Faith Christ discipled to His disciples...

So we must OBEY Christ THROUGH His Faith which He commanded his Apostles to disciple all the nations...

Notice it does NOT say that faith is a Gift of God...

Literally, it says: "Of God the Gift..."

The Gift of God is God's Grace that Saves us...

It is given THROUGH observing ALL that Christ commanded His Apostles to disciple to us...

To observe all that Christ commanded is to practice obedience to Christ...

It is very straightforward...


Arsenios

But “saved” (σεσῳσμένοι) is normative masculine plural in Eph 2:8, so for “that” (τοῦτο) to refer to saved, it should not have been the nominative neuter singular form of the word. Since “that” is not masculine, then the “that” which is a gift of God cannot be “saved”.

Nor can it be “faith” (πίστεως) which is Genitive Feminine Singular.
Nor can it be “grace” (χάριτί) which is Dative Feminine Singular.

The gender must match and “that” is neither masculine nor feminine like ”saved, grace and faith” are.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

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Where in the Bible does it state that God justifies the unrepentant?


Arsenios
When did I say there were such verses in the Bible?
 

MoreCoffee

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Patriarchal heretics...

Many in the RCC regard the current Pope as a heretic...
Name six.

Usually? How often is that?
Not very often.

Oh, let's say - In the last 10 years?

Or the last 50?

Or hundred maybe?
Aside from canonising saints I can't think of any in the last 10, 50, but maybe one in the last 100.
Here is some of the text relating to it. Published in 1950.
9. In this pious striving, the faithful have been associated in a wonderful way with their own holy bishops, who have sent petitions of this kind, truly remarkable in number, to this See of the Blessed Peter. Consequently, when we were elevated to the throne of the supreme pontificate, petitions of this sort had already been addressed by the thousands from every part of the world and from every class of people, from our beloved sons the Cardinals of the Sacred College, from our venerable brethren, archbishops and bishops, from dioceses and from parishes.

10. Consequently, while we sent up earnest prayers to God that he might grant to our mind the light of the Holy Spirit, to enable us to make a decision on this most serious subject, we issued special orders in which we commanded that, by corporate effort, more advanced inquiries into this matter should be begun and that, in the meantime, all the petitions about the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary into heaven which had been sent to this Apostolic See from the time of Pius IX, our predecessor of happy memory, down to our own days should be gathered together and carefully evaluated.(3)

11. And, since we were dealing with a matter of such great moment and of such importance, we considered it opportune to ask all our venerable brethren in the episcopate directly and authoritatively that each of them should make known to us his mind in a formal statement. Hence, on May 1, 1946, we gave them our letter "Deiparae Virginis Mariae," a letter in which these words are contained: "Do you, venerable brethren, in your outstanding wisdom and prudence, judge that the bodily Assumption of the Blessed Virgin can be proposed and defined as a dogma of faith? Do you, with your clergy and people, desire it?"

12. But those whom "the Holy Spirit has placed as bishops to rule the Church of God"(4) gave an almost unanimous affirmative response to both these questions. This "outstanding agreement of the Catholic prelates and the faithful,"(5) affirming that the bodily Assumption of God's Mother into heaven can be defined as a dogma of faith, since it shows us the concordant teaching of the Church's ordinary doctrinal authority and the concordant faith of the Christian people which the same doctrinal authority sustains and directs, thus by itself and in an entirely certain and infallible way, manifests this privilege as a truth revealed by God and contained in that divine deposit which Christ has delivered to his Spouse to be guarded faithfully and to be taught infallibly.(6) Certainly this teaching authority of the Church, not by any merely human effort but under the protection of the Spirit of Truth,(7) and therefore absolutely without error, carries out the commission entrusted to it, that of preserving the revealed truths pure and entire throughout every age, in such a way that it presents them undefiled, adding nothing to them and taking nothing away from them. For, as the Vatican Council teaches, "the Holy Spirit was not promised to the successors of Peter in such a way that, by his revelation, they might manifest new doctrine, but so that, by his assistance, they might guard as sacred and might faithfully propose the revelation delivered through the apostles, or the deposit of faith."(8) Thus, from the universal agreement of the Church's ordinary teaching authority we have a certain and firm proof, demonstrating that the Blessed Virgin Mary's bodily Assumption into heaven- which surely no faculty of the human mind could know by its own natural powers, as far as the heavenly glorification of the virginal body of the loving Mother of God is concerned-is a truth that has been revealed by God and consequently something that must be firmly and faithfully believed by all children of the Church. For, as the Vatican Council asserts, "all those things are to be believed by divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the written Word of God or in Tradition, and which are proposed by the Church, either in solemn judgment or in its ordinary and universal teaching office, as divinely revealed truths which must be believed."(9)


The defined doctrine says - essentially - that 40. Hence the revered Mother of God, from all eternity joined in a hidden way with Jesus Christ in one and the same decree of predestination,(47) immaculate in her conception, a most perfect virgin in her divine motherhood, the noble associate of the divine Redeemer who has won a complete triumph over sin and its consequences, finally obtained, as the supreme culmination of her privileges, that she should be preserved free from the corruption of the tomb and that, like her own Son, having overcome death, she might be taken up body and soul to the glory of heaven where, as Queen, she sits in splendor at the right hand of her Son, the immortal King of the Ages.(48)
 

MennoSota

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Well, you have personal beliefs, and you have the Faith of Christ...

The Faith of Christ is a Biblical term...

Are we back to name calling now???


Arsenios
Is Jesus God?
Does God give faith or do you conjure it up yourself.
Can you comprehend what I first wrote, because it seems you cannot.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

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What a snotty and small minded thing to say...

Lizzards have more heart than this...



YTG would agree...

Sheesh!


Arsenios
And your comment isn't snotty and small-minded? You're adorable, cupcake. YTG does not agree with Christianity being about what Jesus has done. He is all about doing the law to get saved. He has the audacity to pit his works against the wrath of God and actually believe he is so good at following the law that God will reward him with Justification.
 

Arsenios

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But “saved” (σεσῳσμένοι) is normative masculine plural in Eph 2:8, so for “that” (τοῦτο) to refer to saved, it should not have been the nominative neuter singular form of the word. Since “that” is not masculine, then the “that” which is a gift of God cannot be “saved”.

Nor can it be “faith” (πίστεως) which is Genitive Feminine Singular.
Nor can it be “grace” (χάριτί) which is Dative Feminine Singular.

The gender must match and “that” is neither masculine nor feminine like ”saved, grace and faith” are.

Thank-you for engaging the text...

For by the Grace you exist having been Saved through the Faith...

And this not of yourselves...

Of God the Gift...


So the "this" refers to your existence as Saved, by God's Grace, through the Faith...

It is an abstract pronoun which refers to what went before it in the sentence...

That is what you previously said, and I agree...

The Gift is Salvation...

Salvation by God's Grace...

Attained by means of the Faith [of Christ, which He discipled to His disciples...]

THE Faith does NOT refer to your personal and deeply felt religious conviction...

But it is the MEANS of attaining that personal connection...

The MEANS Christ gave to His Apostles to disciple the nations...

OR...

God can simply God-smack you like He did Paul, and you have faith now!

Almost instant Salvation...

One can almost say "Cheating"...

Mind you! :)


Arsenios
 

YourTruthGod

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I don't debate...

I will talk about it with you if you like...

Debating is for precocious sophomores, I say!



Arsenios

You do debate, but you don't want to admit it. What you do here is debating. Debate is not a bad word. The Apostle Paul debated.
James says to contend for the faith. Do you know what a contender is?
 

YourTruthGod

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That can be [heck, it IS] true, but in Christ, the Holy Spirit's Grace is not Christian Salvation...


Arsenios

Not Christian, you say, what are you talking about?
 

YourTruthGod

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Debate is for my intellectual superiors, which most are...

I am more of a simple man of the Faith...


Arsenios

You do debate. Maybe you should tell me what about the word debate that you want to deny.
 

YourTruthGod

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Is Jesus God?
Does God give faith or do you conjure it up yourself.
Can you comprehend what I first wrote, because it seems you cannot.

It isn't conjuring up faith on your own, it is doing the way the Lord says to do it.
 

YourTruthGod

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What a snotty and small minded thing to say...

Lizzards have more heart than this...



YTG would agree...

Sheesh!


Arsenios

Sometimes you are so right!
 

YourTruthGod

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And your comment isn't snotty and small-minded? You're adorable, cupcake. YTG does not agree with Christianity being about what Jesus has done. He is all about doing the law to get saved. He has the audacity to pit his works against the wrath of God and actually believe he is so good at following the law that God will reward him with Justification.

Of course it is about what Jesus has done. Jesus came and gave a New Testament, a New Covenant. Pit my works against the wrath of God? Trusting what God says and doing it is not ever wrong. God warns people not to call what is good 'evil'.
 

YourTruthGod

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Not even a little bit bad!

This place has not been this active in months...

And I give all the credit to you...

Oh, and maybe some small bit of it to God, mind you! :)

Trolling judgmental hypocrites is a hobby of mine...


Arsenios

I am glad you didn't mean that in a bad way.

Ahhh, you encourage me making me feel so very much welcome.
 

YourTruthGod

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I pray for myself all the time, and hardly anything good ever happens...

But if I pray for others, all manner of good ensues...

So I pray for others...

And ask others to pray for me...


Arsenios

He said he prays for me, but what he was saying he would pray for is based on his false judgments of me.

So you say you pray for yourself all the time and hardly anything good ever happens...why is that?
 
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