Jesus Christ, died for all

[MennoSota]

I know what your false doctrine teaches.

If you knew what Reformed theology taught, you wouldn't think it was false mainly because you would be well read in the scriptures. As it is, you don't really know much about the Bible at all. As I said, MC feels better now that you are around.

 

[MennoSota]

According to your false beliefs, God had a thing against certain class of people, such as the rich, and educated for no known reason. According to your false understanding, God had a thing against certain professions such as being a Pharisee, but liked the tax collector profession and prostitution for no known reason. Your false beliefs make it so that God predestined people He wanted to save to be in certain professions, a specific class.

So tell me, do you really want to keep believing that insanity? God does not predestine those He will save to be prostitutes, tax collectors, poor, and uneducated.
That is EXACTLY what your insane beliefs entail.

So God predestined and made His elect prostitutes and tax collectors?

The reason why the rich, educated, and the Pharisees were not chosen for salvation, was because they were proud and would not humble themselves. That is the reason those who are saved are saved, it is because they humbled themselves more readily than the others.

This is hilarious. You just proved your ignorance. Thank you.

 

[YourTruthGod]

NO TOTAL DEPRAVITY

Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent. Acts 13:26.

NO TOTAL DEPRAVITY
“This man deserves to have you do this. Luke 7:4

NO TOTAL DEPRAVITY

but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. Acts 10:35

NO TOTAL DEPRAVITY

Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God made it plain to them.

 

[YourTruthGod]

This is hilarious. You just proved your ignorance. Thank you.

According to your false beliefs, God had a thing against certain classes of people, like the rich and the educated, but He liked to put His elected in jobs like prostitution and jobs where they can steal like tax collecting.

You are the one who is hellarious.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Come on and tell us, Menno. Did God give His elected those bad jobs too? lol

 

[Andrew]

You all use word play...
I used to fight against Calvinism but I found myself just disagreeing with scripture while defending what I thought the bible should say in regarding who Jesus salvages through his atonement.
You cannot convince me that God gave his Son up BEYOND His sheep, his sheep includes all believers from all around the globe from all periods of time. YTG makes the case over and over again that "God does not save unbelievers" and Calvinism couldn't agree more because God does NOT save the goats, he saves HIS people ONLY! This does NOT mean that all atheist (unbelieving) at this present time are doomed to hell, God intervenes in every BELIEVERS life, whether you come to Faith today or tomorrow or in a "twinkling of an eye" it all starts with Gods Sovereign Will.
We should accept that 'not all' will be saved, I believe that Revelation gives us a ratio and we also hear of "goats" and people that will ACCEPT the PERMANENT mark opposite of God... What this means IMO is that ALL will be given the mark of rebellion but that it won't be PERMANENT for ALL, the Elect (Gods sheep whom Jesus laid his life down for) will be marked as Gods people by his angels, I don't see this as being a 'visible' mark for others to see...
All who believe REGARDLESS of what denomination they approve of or accept -WILL inherit the kingdom of Heaven.
This is in no way whatsoever an attack on denominations but an acceptance and relief that ALL believing members are one in the same Body of Christ!
Every believer is saved and that is scripture! Do away with your labels and be real for once, accept that Jesus laid down HIS life for YOU and not for your denomination or dogmatic biases.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Not silly at all.

Oh yes, very silly as all human invented religions must be. Absurdities like "our religion goes back to John the Baptist because we're Baptists" are just a little part of the silliness. Other things like "all" really means "all kinds of people" and "the whole world" really means "the elect who are taken out of the whole world from every nation and tribe and tongue and so forth" as well as "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags" as a catch phrase to throw around as if it proves something helpful to your crazy system of theology are just extra silliness to cover over the failure in your theological system's attempts to deal with holy scripture as the holy scriptures are written. Your religion needs to twist and change the meaning of holy scripture just to keep its head above water. It is a doomed project that cannot survive except by distorting and prevaricating.

If atonement is universal and unlimited then Christ has purchased all.
Yet, not all are brought home to be with Jesus.
This means that Jesus leaves and forsakes those he purchased.

Your reasoning is erroneous.
The Lord Jesus Christ did die for the sake of all humanity and he didn't purchase anyone except for those who come to him freely, willingly, and faithfully.
It is entirely voluntary thus the elect willingly come to Christ of their own volition to be saved.
This means that the Lord's death is exactly as effective and powerful for the salvation of souls as the Lord intends it to be.
No one is forsaken who wishes to come to Christ for salvation and all who do wish it will come to him.
Everyone who does receive Christ, who believed in his name, are given by God the right to become children of God.

It makes Jesus a liar since Jesus says he will never leave or forsake those whom the Father has given.

What causes you to cling so tight to your erroneous man made theology that you write such things as "it makes Jesus a liar" if your theology is wrong. How proud it is to elevate your erroneous theology above God and accuse God of deceit if your theology is not right. It is no wonder that the system bears the name of a man as its name rather than a testimony to Christ as its Lord. But that is how it is with Calvinism.

It is interesting that you consider the issue silly.

The silliness is in the error filled theology that your posts espouse.

 

[YourTruthGod]

You all use word play...
I used to fight against Calvinism but I found myself just disagreeing with scripture while defending what I thought the bible should say in regarding who Jesus salvages through his atonement.
You cannot convince me that God gave his Son up BEYOND His sheep,

Anyone can become sheep.
You need to think about that, but you probably won't.
You are stuck right where you are and are probably happy about it.

his sheep includes all believers from all around the globe from all periods of time. YTG makes the case over and over again that "God does not save unbelievers" and Calvinism couldn't agree more because God does NOT save the goats, he saves HIS people ONLY!

You are missing it. Calvinists say that God saves unbelievers. That makes God saving goats.
A person has to be a believer and obeying first to be a sheep.

You sure are trying to stand up for Calvinism.

This does NOT mean that all atheist (unbelieving) at this present time are doomed to hell,

Man you are so wrong.
All unbelievers are doomed to the same place until they believe.

Want scripture to prove it to you?

I notice you don come back to study more what I say.

You should try so that you will not say such false things like that.

God intervenes in every BELIEVERS life,

According to Calvinists, God intervenes in UNBELIEVER's lives.

whether you come to Faith today or tomorrow or in a "twinkling of an eye" it all starts with Gods Sovereign Will.
We should accept that 'not all' will be saved, I believe that Revelation gives us a ratio and we also hear of "goats" and people that will ACCEPT the PERMANENT mark opposite of God... What this means IMO is that ALL will be given the mark of rebellion but that it won't be PERMANENT for ALL, the Elect (Gods sheep whom Jesus laid his life down for) will be marked as Gods people by his angels, I don't see this as being a 'visible' mark for others to see...
All who believe REGARDLESS of what denomination they approve of or accept -WILL inherit the kingdom of Heaven.
This is in no way whatsoever an attack on denominations but an acceptance and relief that ALL believing members are one in the same Body of Christ!
Every believer is saved and that is scripture! Do away with your labels and be real for once, accept that Jesus laid down HIS life for YOU and not for your denomination or dogmatic biases.

Shame on you for trying to make Truth of least importance.

 

[Andrew]

Anyone can become sheep.
You need to think about that, but you probably won't.
You are stuck right where you are and are probably happy about it.


You are missing it. Calvinists say that God saves unbelievers. That makes God saving goats.
A person has to be a believer and obeying first to be a sheep.

You sure are trying to stand up for Calvinism.



Man you are so wrong.
All unbelievers are doomed to the same place until they believe.

Want scripture to prove it to you?

I notice you don come back to study more what I say.

You should try so that you will not say such false things like that.



According to Calvinists, God intervenes in UNBELIEVER's lives.



Shame on you for trying to make Truth of least importance.

Wow, so according to your theology, all who are not believing now are to report straight to hell while having no hope of Christ ever entering into their lives anytime soon or ever (no hope whatsoever)
Shame on you for twisting the scripture into accepting the devils ultimate plan for all mankind.
Have fun converting people with your flawed approach to salvation, even though Gods will trumps yours in the end (and beginning)... Godspeed my friend but you lack community and reason, try going to church sometime

 

[YourTruthGod]

Wow, so according to your theology, all who are not believing now are to report straight to hell while having no hope of Christ ever entering into their lives anytime soon or ever (no hope whatsoever)

I speak according to the scriptures.
And, notice that you add things to the scriptures, and even to what I say.

ALL ARE CONDEMNED until they believe in Jesus.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.

Shame on you for twisting the scripture into accepting the devils ultimate plan for all mankind.
Have fun converting people with your flawed approach to salvation, even though Gods will trumps yours in the end (and beginning)... Godspeed my friend but you lack community and reason, try going to church sometime

You don't even know that all are condemned until they believe!
You don't even know that we cross from DEATH to LIFE when we believe.

You don't even know that, and you falsely judge me.

 

[MennoSota]

According to your false beliefs, God had a thing against certain classes of people, like the rich and the educated, but He liked to put His elected in jobs like prostitution and jobs where they can steal like tax collecting.

You are the one who is hellarious.

Nope. Not even close.

 

[MennoSota]

Oh yes, very silly as all human invented religions must be. Absurdities like "our religion goes back to John the Baptist because we're Baptists" are just a little part of the silliness. Other things like "all" really means "all kinds of people" and "the whole world" really means "the elect who are taken out of the whole world from every nation and tribe and tongue and so forth" as well as "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags" as a catch phrase to throw around as if it proves something helpful to your crazy system of theology are just extra silliness to cover over the failure in your theological system's attempts to deal with holy scripture as the holy scriptures are written. Your religion needs to twist and change the meaning of holy scripture just to keep its head above water. It is a doomed project that cannot survive except by distorting and prevaricating.


Your reasoning is erroneous.
The Lord Jesus Christ did die for the sake of all humanity and he didn't purchase anyone except for those who come to him freely, willingly, and faithfully.
It is entirely voluntary thus the elect willingly come to Christ of their own volition to be saved.
This means that the Lord's death is exactly as effective and powerful for the salvation of souls as the Lord intends it to be.
No one is forsaken who wishes to come to Christ for salvation and all who do wish it will come to him.
Everyone who does receive Christ, who believed in his name, are given by God the right to become children of God.


What causes you to cling so tight to your erroneous man made theology that you write such things as "it makes Jesus a liar" if your theology is wrong. How proud it is to elevate your erroneous theology above God and accuse God of deceit if your theology is not right. It is no wonder that the system bears the name of a man as its name rather than a testimony to Christ as its Lord. But that is how it is with Calvinism.



The silliness is in the error filled theology that your posts espouse.

Interesting. You have shared your theology, which has no biblical support, yet you decry reformed theology, which stands upon scripture alone. The blindness you show is sad regarding scripture, MC. Your church dogma has fully blinded you.

 

[Josiah]

You have shared your theology, which has no biblical support

You have not shared even one verse that says what you do, that Jesus did NOT die for all (as SO many Scriptures flat-out, directly, verbatim, literally state) but rather those verses are wrong and Jesus died ONLY for SOME.

MennoSota, it is you that parrots the nearly universally rejected invention of a tiny few radical later-day Calvinists in the 16th Century but with not one verse to substantiate it.

Your church dogma has fully blinded you and causes you to reject what God so often, so clearly, so directed has stated, forcing you to "spin" all these many clear statements to mean the exact opposite of what they actually state, with the rubric that truth is the opposite of what the Bible so often states.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Interesting. You have shared your theology, which has no biblical support, yet you decry reformed theology,

No no no. You have that all wrong. I decry your theology. Reformed folk can make sense but your theology is a mishmash of crazy ideas like the one you keep pushing that John the Baptist was a member of your little denomination or shares your crazy theology; he didn't and even a chap like Albion said so and Josiah too and neither of them is my bosom buddy. So don't try to recruit the "Reformed" to your cause I dare say most of them would not want to associate with a great deal of what you've posted.

which stands upon scripture alone. The blindness you show is sad regarding scripture, MC. Your church dogma has fully blinded you.

 

[Albion]

To tell the truth, it has always been my view that most of what Menno posts is meant just to yank our strings. Some of the briefer retorts undeniably fit that mold, so why would we think that the more theologically-oriented posts are any different?

 

[MennoSota]

You have not shared even one verse that says what you do, that Jesus did NOT die for all (as SO many Scriptures flat-out, directly, verbatim, literally state) but rather those verses are wrong and Jesus died ONLY for SOME.

MennoSota, it is you that parrots the nearly universally rejected invention of a tiny few radical later-day Calvinists in the 16th Century but with not one verse to substantiate it.

Your church dogma has fully blinded you and causes you to reject what God so often, so clearly, so directed has stated, forcing you to "spin" all these many clear statements to mean the exact opposite of what they actually state, with the rubric that truth is the opposite of what the Bible so often states.

Josiah, scripture is clear that Jesus laid down his life for the sheep. These sheep were known from before the foundation of the world. All this has been communicated.
I am not responsible for your disbelief. Nor am I responsible for the major contradiction and conundrum that your position must consider.
For me, I recognize the consistency of God in redeeming those whom he wills by purchasing them with his atoning sacrifice and giving them the faith to believe. You clearly do not agree. You have to live with your conundrum. I do not.

 

[RichWh1]

Who are the sheep? Those who will believe in Him not those who have been predestined to believe!



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[psalms 91]

Who are the sheep? Those who will believe in Him not those who have been predestined to believe!



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We all have a chance it is not for just a few

 

[MennoSota]

No no no. You have that all wrong. I decry your theology. Reformed folk can make sense but your theology is a mishmash of crazy ideas like the one you keep pushing that John the Baptist was a member of your little denomination or shares your crazy theology; he didn't and even a chap like Albion said so and Josiah too and neither of them is my bosom buddy. So don't try to recruit the "Reformed" to your cause I dare say most of them would not want to associate with a great deal of what you've posted.

Do you deny that Baptists were baptizing in the Jordan as well as at Jerusalem? It's documented in the gospels and the Acts if the Apostles.
I can't help it if Rome came later.
As for Limited Atonement it's biblical and I have provided the information.
The article below (Josiah should also look at it since he erroneously thinks he's a monergist) will lay out the scriptural basis for limited atonement and thus ease your anxiety.
https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/limitedatonement.html

 

[MennoSota]

Anyone can become sheep.

Via evolution? Via magical incantation?
Since Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, exactly how does a human, in their own power, become a sheep? Inquiring minds wish to know how you conjure up such a feat of magic.