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MennoSota

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I am the one giving the scriptures and you are the one avoiding them.
No. You rarely share scripture. If you do it is without context. Many here recognize your error and incapacity to understand God's word.
 

MoreCoffee

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No. You rarely share scripture. If you do it is without context. Many here recognize your error and incapacity to understand God's word.

Odd that you say that. It is your posts that quote out of context and evidence a lack of understanding about holy scripture and what is taught therein. But hey, they are filled with amusing one liners and stuff, unedifying it is true but you may be getting some jollies from them.

:smirk:
 

MoreCoffee

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I am not an Arminian, but just read what this Calvinist said. This proves that Calvinism isn't from God.

We are all born Arminians. It is grace that turns us into Calvinists
-George Whitefield

Why is it that a person learns of Calvin’s doctrines AFTER they become Christians?

That's an easy one; they learn it because just as no one is born with the flu they have to catch the virus for it to settle in and make them sick so no one is born a Calvinist they have to catch the theology for it to settle in and make them Calvinistic - the same principle applies to Calvinism.

By the way, George Whitefield is a kind of hero of English Calvinists because there is a famous (among Calvinists) biography written about him and his constant theological war against the Wesleys. I may be wrong because it is all about Protestant infighting but it looks like the Wesleys won the war if adherent numbers are anything to go by. Whitefield didn't leave a large group of Calvinistic Methodists behind while John and his brother Charles left behind a thriving community of Arminian Methodists which persist to today. As Protestant sects go theirs is rather friendly and fairly interesting. They are like Anglicans with good manners :)
 

MennoSota

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Odd that you say that. It is your posts that quote out of context and evidence a lack of understanding about holy scripture and what is taught therein. But hey, they are filled with amusing one liners and stuff, unedifying it is true but you may be getting some jollies from them.

:smirk:
Nice try. I don't point at one sentence and create a doctrine around the one sentence. It's quite interesting to see people make entire doctrines from 1 John 2:2 and 2 Peter 3:9. Since holding the views they espouse goes contrary to many other passages you have to either ignore all of scripture or cherry pick other sentences out of context to try prop up the obvious contradiction. Then...when that fails you just call upon church traditions to overrule scripture completely and thus diminish scripture to secondary status. Just act like a Pharisee.
 

YourTruthGod

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No. You rarely share scripture. If you do it is without context. Many here recognize your error and incapacity to understand God's word.

You don't care what you say. What a testament to your denomination.
 

YourTruthGod

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That's an easy one; they learn it because just as no one is born with the flu they have to catch the virus for it to settle in and make them sick so no one is born a Calvinist they have to catch the theology for it to settle in and make them Calvinistic - the same principle applies to Calvinism.
hahahaha That's a good one. You know, I first thought it said born again as Arminians.
By the way, George Whitefield is a kind of hero of English Calvinists because there is a famous (among Calvinists) biography written about him and his constant theological war against the Wesleys. I may be wrong because it is all about Protestant infighting but it looks like the Wesleys won the war if adherent numbers are anything to go by. Whitefield didn't leave a large group of Calvinistic Methodists behind while John and his brother Charles left behind a thriving community of Arminian Methodists which persist to today. As Protestant sects go theirs is rather friendly and fairly interesting. They are like Anglicans with good manners :)

You know some stuff about denominations. Thanks for the info.
 

MennoSota

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I am not an Arminian, but just read what this Calvinist said. This proves that Calvinism isn't from God.

We are all born Arminians. It is grace that turns us into Calvinists
-George Whitefield

Why is it that a person learns of Calvin’s doctrines AFTER they become Christians?
You realize that God used Whitefield to establish the Great Awakening, don't you? Never, in the history of North America, has there been such a powerful revival.
It's funny that you would say Whitefield wasn't from God. Add the fact that North America's greatest theologian was Reformed and also an instrumental person in the Great Awakening and it pretty much shuts your foolishness down.
Best if you stick with something you have a clue about.
 

MoreCoffee

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Nice try. I don't point at one sentence and create a doctrine around the one sentence.
Very true that you do not point to one sentence as the basis for a doctrine you rely on one word misconstrued and improperly defined for that. The whole structure of doctrine that you build depends on "all" meaning "all kinds of people" and "sheep" meaning "the elect of God who are foreknown from eternity" and you have some other trigger words that set your posts off on an adventure in misuse of holy scripture and the English language.

It's quite interesting to see people make entire doctrines from 1 John 2:2 and 2 Peter 3:9.
Why do you focus on 1 John 2:2 and 2 Peter 3:9? Is there something in those verses that upsets your theology? The Lord is not slow to fulfil his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. Oh I see, it says "all" and your post is triggered by that word so you need to pretend it says "all kinds of people" instead of all. So sorry to trigger that. How do you fair with the other verse? He is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. now that one presents a problem for your posts because it says "the whole world" and probably means exactly what is says but you cannot abide the verse saying that Christ is the expiation for the sins of the whole world because that is intolerably consistent with this threads topic title! Away with those words, it must be changed! You'd write if the courage could be mustered to consistently apply the system of theology that you present in CH. But instead it is likely your posts will say "you're taking that out of context!" So we'll get the popcorn and watch the "context" fly like pigs do. ;)

Since holding the views they espouse goes contrary to many other passages you have to either ignore all of scripture or cherry pick other sentences out of context to try prop up the obvious contradiction. Then...when that fails you just call upon church traditions to overrule scripture completely and thus diminish scripture to secondary status. Just act like a Pharisee.
 

MennoSota

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Very true that you do not point to one sentence as the basis for a doctrine you rely on one word misconstrued and improperly defined for that. The whole structure of doctrine that you build depends on "all" meaning "all kinds of people" and "sheep" meaning "the elect of God who are foreknown from eternity" and you have some other trigger words that set your posts off on an adventure in misuse of holy scripture and the English language.


Why do you focus on 1 John 2:2 and 2 Peter 3:9? Is there something in those verses that upsets your theology? The Lord is not slow to fulfil his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. Oh I see, it says "all" and your post is triggered by that word so you need to pretend it says "all kinds of people" instead of all. So sorry to trigger that. How do you fair with the other verse? He is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. now that one presents a problem for your posts because it says "the whole world" and probably means exactly what is says but you cannot abide the verse saying that Christ is the expiation for the sins of the whole world because that is intolerably consistent with this threads topic title! Away with those words, it must be changed! You'd write if the courage could be mustered to consistently apply the system of theology that you present in CH. But instead it is likely your posts will say "you're taking that out of context!" So we'll get the popcorn and watch the "context" fly like pigs do. ;)
All scripture speaks of the Sovereign work of God in graciously choosing sinful people to redeem. There is no verse that goes against what God chooses to do for those He has Redeemed.
I just don't understand why you hold to doctrines that contradict the very nature of God.
 

MoreCoffee

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All scripture speaks of the Sovereign work of God in graciously choosing sinful people to redeem. There is no verse that goes against what God chooses to do for those He has Redeemed.
Once again your error is to think that because God chooses some to inherit eternal life who do not deserve it and by most standards are rather wicked people you erroneously think that is the one and only way God works in the matter of calling, election, and salvation. It doesn't dawn on your theological system of thought that God also calls people by ordinary means and some respond while others turn away or are turned away by other things. Like the Lord Jesus explained in a parable sometimes the gospel lands in shallow or hard hearts and if it sprouts up into faith it lasts only for a short time and persecution as well as hardship kill it while sometimes the gospel call lands in busy care filled hearts that respond only to have other cares extinguish its growth and leave the called with a strangled unproductive response to the gospel of salvation. nevertheless sometimes the call lands in good hearts well suited for its reception and there it produced lively faith that yields good works and an abundance of fruit. But your theology will somehow make the parable teach that only God's arbitrary election based on nothing in or about the elect, which election you allege was predetermined in eternity, is operative and that the condition of the heart that receives the gospel is an irrelevance. Such is the way that your theology twists what is taught in holy scripture.

I just don't understand why you hold to doctrines that contradict the very nature of God.

Of course you don't understand that is because you misconstrue what God's nature is.
 

MennoSota

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Once again your error is to think that because God chooses some to inherit eternal life who do not deserve it and by most standards are rather wicked people you erroneously think that is the one and only way God works in the matter of calling, election, and salvation. It doesn't dawn on your theological system of thought that God also calls people by ordinary means and some respond while others turn away or are turned away by other things. Like the Lord Jesus explained in a parable sometimes the gospel lands in shallow or hard hearts and if it sprouts up into faith it lasts only for a short time and persecution as well as hardship kill it while sometimes the gospel call lands in busy care filled hearts that respond only to have other cares extinguish its growth and leave the called with a strangled unproductive response to the gospel of salvation. nevertheless sometimes the call lands in good hearts well suited for its reception and there it produced lively faith that yields good works and an abundance of fruit. But your theology will somehow make the parable teach that only God's arbitrary election based on nothing in or about the elect, which election you allege was predetermined in eternity, is operative and that the condition of the heart that receives the gospel is an irrelevance. Such is the way that your theology twists what is taught in holy scripture.



Of course you don't understand that is because you misconstrue what God's nature is.
All our righteousness is as filthy rags. By all God's standards we are wretched. This is why the famous Reformed hymn writer wrote:
"Amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now am found. Was blind but now I see."
Now, does God purchase all humanity and then toss some in hell after He purchased them? Yes or no?
 

MoreCoffee

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All our righteousness is as filthy rags.
Talk about out of context! I bet you trot out that phrase at every opportunity never thinking for a moment about its context and what it is about. No wonder your theology is so distorted. It relies on trigger words and little snippet phrases taken from holy scripture, lifted from their context and applied willy nilly to everything that threatens the distorted image of God that your theology creates. In your system God is not Love he is Sovereignty and he does not save he elects and chooses and the gospel is not good news it is a taunt for the unsaved and a reminder for the elect that they are worthless rubbish deserving only of judgement and destruction and eternal burning, torment and suffering but who are saved by an arbitrary act totally unrelated to anything in them (like quality of the heart into which the gospel is received) and anything that they do (like good works of righteousness because "all our righteousness is as filthy rags") it all comes down to an eternal election made without reference to the elect but only and wholly by God's "good pleasure". Well with a theology like that it is no wonder that you rely on trigger words and phrases that mean nothing like what you claim.

By all God's standards we are wretched. This is why the famous Reformed hymn writer wrote:
"Amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now am found. Was blind but now I see."
Now, does God purchase all humanity and then toss some in hell after He purchased them? Yes or no?

Now your post is playing with flying pigs again. Your offered choices are just silly. You present a nonsense as if it were the real issue when in fact it is nothing like the choices offered in holy scripture.
 

MennoSota

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Talk about out of context! I bet you trot out that phrase at every opportunity never thinking for a moment about its context and what it is about. No wonder your theology is so distorted. It relies on trigger words and little snippet phrases taken from holy scripture, lifted from their context and applied willy nilly to everything that threatens the distorted image of God that your theology creates. In your system God is not Love he is Sovereignty and he does not save he elects and chooses and the gospel is not good news it is a taunt for the unsaved and a reminder for the elect that they are worthless rubbish deserving only of judgement and destruction and eternal burning, torment and suffering but who are saved by an arbitrary act totally unrelated to anything in them (like quality of the heart into which the gospel is received) and anything that they do (like good works of righteousness because "all our righteousness is as filthy rags") it all comes down to an eternal election made without reference to the elect but only and wholly by God's "good pleasure". Well with a theology like that it is no wonder that you rely on trigger words and phrases that mean nothing like what you claim.



Now your post is playing with flying pigs again. Your offered choices are just silly. You present a nonsense as if it were the real issue when in fact it is nothing like the choices offered in holy scripture.
Not silly at all.
If atonement is universal and unlimited then Christ has purchased all.
Yet, not all are brought home to be with Jesus.
This means that Jesus leaves and forsakes those he purchased. It makes Jesus a liar since Jesus says he will never leave or forsake those whom the Father has given.
It is interesting that you consider the issue silly.
 

YourTruthGod

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You realize that God used Whitefield to establish the Great Awakening, don't you? Never, in the history of North America, has there been such a powerful revival.
It's funny that you would say Whitefield wasn't from God. Add the fact that North America's greatest theologian was Reformed and also an instrumental person in the Great Awakening and it pretty much shuts your foolishness down.
Best if you stick with something you have a clue about.

Stop glorifying false teachers and false doctrines.
 

MennoSota

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Stop glorifying false teachers and false doctrines.
God was glorified in them YTG. God used them in mighty ways.
It is interesting how bitter you are in regard to sound doctrine.
 

YourTruthGod

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Notice nowhere in the scriptures does it say what the reformed teach.

Can you imagine Cornelius waiting to hear the message that will save him and his whole family and this is what Peter says:

If you get saved you will know when God enables you to believe.
Or---

The jailer asks what must we do?

Peter says if you get saved you will know when you believe.


Peter never said that to anyone.
 
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MennoSota

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Notice nowhere in the scriptures does it say what the reformed teach.

Can you imagine Cornelius waiting to hear the message that will save him and his whole family and this is what Peter says:

If you get saved you will know when God enables you to believe.
Or---

The jailer asks what must we do?

Peter says if you believe you are saved.


Peter never said that to anyone.
First, you are clueless about Reformed theology.
Second, you are clueless regarding the scriptures so that you are unable to make the connection between Reformed theology and scripture. If fact, you may well be the most biblically ignorant person at the CH...which should make MC feel better
 

YourTruthGod

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First, you are clueless about Reformed theology.
Second, you are clueless regarding the scriptures so that you are unable to make the connection between Reformed theology and scripture. If fact, you may well be the most biblically ignorant person at the CH...which should make MC feel better

I know what your false doctrine teaches.
 

YourTruthGod

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According to your false beliefs, God had a thing against certain class of people, such as the rich, and educated for no known reason. According to your false understanding, God had a thing against certain professions such as being a Pharisee, but liked the tax collector profession and prostitution for no known reason. Your false beliefs make it so that God predestined people He wanted to save to be in certain professions, a specific class.

So tell me, do you really want to keep believing that insanity? God does not predestine those He will save to be prostitutes, tax collectors, poor, and uneducated.
That is EXACTLY what your insane beliefs entail.

So God predestined and made His elect prostitutes and tax collectors?

The reason why the rich, educated, and the Pharisees were not chosen for salvation, was because they were proud and would not humble themselves. That is the reason those who are saved are saved, it is because they humbled themselves more readily than the others.
 
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