Biases, imaginary faults, and sins.

[MoreCoffee]

The two understandings of God are seen in historic Christianity and her natural enemy, Islam...

I just can't work myself up into a lather of hatred for Islam. It's just another religion. No more insidious or evil than many forms of Christianity. No less benign than Buddhism, Hinduism, or Judaism.

Islam is bigger than Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism (the latter being a tiny religion in comparison to the others) and smaller than Christianity.

If you don't like Islam then avoid becoming a Muslim and maybe avoid living in an Arabian country.

:noway:

 

[MennoSota]

I just can't work myself up into a lather of hatred for Islam. It's just another religion. No more insidious or evil than many forms of Christianity. No less benign than Buddhism, Hinduism, or Judaism.

Islam is bigger than Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism (the letter being a tiny religion in comparison to the others) and smaller than Christianity.

If you don't like Islam then avoid becoming a Muslim and maybe avoid living in an Arabian country.

:noway:

Avoidance is not a message of love. It denies Jesus commission to go and make disciples...

 

[MoreCoffee]

Avoidance is not a message of love. It denies Jesus commission to go and make disciples...

Extermination is worse than avoidance. Better to avoid Islam than go nuts with hate and exterminate Muslims. We saw some of the latter in New Zealand's city Christchurch recently. All one can say about that is that hate can lead to some very bad results.

 

[MennoSota]

Extermination is worse than avoidance. Better to avoid Islam than go nuts with hate and exterminate Muslims. We saw some of the latter in New Zealand's city Christchurch recently. All one can say about that is that hate can lead to some very bad results.

Why is avoidance better than extermination? "To live is Christ and to die is gain."
May I suggest you read "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus" by Nabeel Qureshi.
https://youtu.be/2bjv2t7PC7E

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why is avoidance better than extermination? "To live is Christ and to die is gain."

It ought to be obvious why avoidance is better than extermination but evidently it isn't obvious to you.

 

[MennoSota]

It ought to be obvious why avoidance is better than extermination but evidently it isn't obvious to you.

"To live is Christ and to die is gain." ~ Paul the Apostle
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." ~ Jim Elliott (missionary martyred for his faith)
No, MC, your position is not obvious to me.

 

[MoreCoffee]

"To live is Christ and to die is gain." ~ Paul the Apostle
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." ~ Jim Elliott (missionary martyred for his faith)
No, MC, your position is not obvious to me.

With faith like that it isn't too hard to see why he was martyred. What was he giving (that he could not keep) at the time he was killed?

Anyway, that is a digression and has nothing whatever to do with what the holy scriptures say or teach.

You do seem keen to make extermination into something good; remind me not to answer the door when you're doing door to door evangelism in my neighbourhood, the chance of being exterminated as a part of your message discourages me from accepting your message. I'd rather avoid the extermination part of your message altogether so avoiding the whole thing is likely to be an act of self preservation and religious wisdom.

Like I said before it ought to be obvious why avoidance is better than extermination but evidently it isn't obvious to you.

 

[MennoSota]

With faith like that it isn't too hard to see why he was martyred. What was he giving (that he could not keep) at the time he was killed?

Anyway, that is a digression and has nothing whatever to do with what the holy scriptures say or teach.

You do seem keen to make extermination into something good; remind me not to answer the door when you're doing door to door evangelism in my neighbourhood, the chance of being exterminated as a part of your message discourages me from accepting your message. I'd rather avoid the extermination part of your message altogether so avoiding the whole thing is likely to be an act of self preservation and religious wisdom.

Like I said before it ought to be obvious why avoidance is better than extermination but evidently it isn't obvious to you.

Do you find life on earth better than life in Heaven with our Father?
God holds the hour of our homecoming in his hand. Of whom shall we fear? It is not obvious to me why you prefer living in fear rather than living in faith.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Do you find life on earth better than life in Heaven with our Father?

You know what? I think your post is confusing nonsense. It has nothing to do with the topic being discussed; namely, that avoidance of violent and murderous persons is better than being exterminated by them. Somehow you've managed to post nonsense about some other topic of your own invention.

God holds the hour of our homecoming in his hand. Of whom shall we fear? It is not obvious to me why you prefer living in fear rather than living in faith.

 

[Arsenios]

I just can't work myself up into a lather of hatred for Islam.
It's just another religion.
No more insidious or evil than many forms of Christianity.
No less benign than Buddhism, Hinduism, or Judaism.

Never work yourself up into hatred of Islam...

Islam is bigger than Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism (the letter being a tiny religion in comparison to the others) and smaller than Christianity.

I never studied the stats...

Sounds very anthropological...

If you don't like Islam then avoid becoming a Muslim and maybe avoid living in an Arabian country.

They are fruitful places for martyrdom...

Christ sent His sheep out among wolves...

Rev 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God,
and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Arsenios

 

[MoreCoffee]

Never work yourself up into hatred of Islam...



I never studied the stats...

Sounds very anthropological...



They are fruitful places for martyrdom...

Christ sent His sheep out among wolves...

Rev 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God,
and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Arsenios

If you're keen to be a martyr then there are closer places that the Arabian countries where that can be achieved.

Personally, I'd rather avoid martyrdom if I can.

Being exterminated by some zealot of hate and killing is not a goal I aspire to.

 

[Arsenios]

If you're keen to be a martyr then there are closer places that the Arabian countries where that can be achieved.

Personally, I'd rather avoid martyrdom if I can.

Being exterminated by some zealot of hate and killing is not a goal I aspire to.

Peter was avoiding martyrdom when he ran into Jesus on the road walking towards what Peter was avoiding...
He rebuked the Lord with the question: "Lord, why are you going back there?"
"To be crucified again, because you are running away..."
And Peter turned back towards Rome and was martyred...

You doubtless know the story and can tell it better than I...

In a word, standing one's ground in love and suffering and death CAN be indicated...

Not necessarily, though...

God will let you know...

But only IF you predetermine yourself to follow Him in discipleship...

Even unto death, which in this world cannot (nor should it be) avoided...

A Christian running from death is an oxymoron...

We are Baptized into Christ's agonizing Death on the Cross...

We are discipled unto death in ourselves to the world...

To live is Christ...

To die is gain...

Death avoiding feel good Christianity is not Christ's nor the Church's teaching...

God bless you, my Brother...

Nor do we normally SEEK martyrdom...

For we love our enemies who would kill us...

We do not want our blood on their hands...

So we avoid that death for their sakes...

But we do not avoid martyrdom out of our personal "preferences"...

Read Ignatius of Antioch letters...


Arsenios

 

[MoreCoffee]

Peter was avoiding martyrdom when he ran into Jesus on the road walking towards what Peter was avoiding...
He rebuked the Lord with the question: "Lord, why are you going back there?"
"To be crucified again, because you are running away..."
And Peter turned back towards Rome and was martyred...

You know that the story you are relating is not considered to be true, right? It was part of "quo vadis" the film, and probably has roots in folk lore but is not anything reported or recorded as genuine Petrine tradition.

You doubtless know the story and can tell it better than I...

In a word, standing one's ground in love and suffering and death CAN be indicated...

Not necessarily, though...

God will let you know...

But only IF you predetermine yourself to follow Him in discipleship...

Even unto death, which in this world cannot (nor should it be) avoided...

A Christian running from death is an oxymoron...

We are Baptized into Christ's agonizing Death on the Cross...

We are discipled unto death in ourselves to the world...

To live is Christ...

To die is gain...

Death avoiding feel good Christianity is not Christ's nor the Church's teaching...

God bless you, my Brother...

Nor do we normally SEEK martyrdom...

For we love our enemies who would kill us...

We do not want our blood on their hands...

So we avoid that death for their sakes...

But we do not avoid martyrdom out of our personal "preferences"...

Read Ignatius of Antioch letters...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

If you're keen to be a martyr then there are closer places that the Arabian countries where that can be achieved.

Personally, I'd rather avoid martyrdom if I can.

Being exterminated by some zealot of hate and killing is not a goal I aspire to.

Was Stephen wrong to stand firm in the faith and speak to zealots even though he was martyred? Saul was there.
The Saul was a zealot of hate and killing. God still chose to save him and told his servants to go speak to him.
MC, if God is with you, does it matter by which means you die?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Was Stephen wrong to stand firm in the faith and speak to zealots even though he was martyred? Saul was there.
The Saul was a zealot of hate and killing. God still chose to save him and told his servants to go speak to him.
MC, if God is with you, does it matter by which means you die?

What on Earth are you on about?

 

[MennoSota]

What on Earth are you on about?

Your own words...
Being exterminated by some zealot of hate and killing is not a goal I aspire to.

 

[Arsenios]

You know that the story you are relating is not considered to be true, right?

I thought it was legit...

Are you saying it is false?

It sure would make the fitting outcome for Jesus prophesy for him...

I never saw Quo Vadis...


Arsenios

 

[MoreCoffee]

I thought it was legit...

Are you saying it is false?

It sure would make the fitting outcome for Jesus prophesy for him...

I never saw Quo Vadis...


Arsenios

Its source is an unreliable document written several centuries after the alleged event.

 

[tango]

"To live is Christ and to die is gain." ~ Paul the Apostle
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." ~ Jim Elliott (missionary martyred for his faith)
No, MC, your position is not obvious to me.

I'm not sure what either of your sayings have to do with exterminating other people.

It's one thing to be willing to lay down our lives for the gospel. That doesn't readily translate into killing other people for the sake of their gospel, particularly if we believe it to be a false gospel.

Of course if you're talking about the elimination of Islam because every single follower of Allah willingly abandons Mohammed and follows Jesus because of peaceful evangelism, that's a different story.

 

[MennoSota]

I'm not sure what either of your sayings have to do with exterminating other people.

It's one thing to be willing to lay down our lives for the gospel. That doesn't readily translate into killing other people for the sake of their gospel, particularly if we believe it to be a false gospel.

Of course if you're talking about the elimination of Islam because every single follower of Allah willingly abandons Mohammed and follows Jesus because of peaceful evangelism, that's a different story.

Who said that Christians should exterminate non-christians?