Not of the world

[MoreCoffee]

The Lord offered a prayer for his disciples which contains these words and I wondered how they apply to Christians today

John 17:14-20 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them. For they are not of the world, just as I, too, am not of the world. 15 I am not praying that you would take them out of the world, but that you would preserve them from evil. 16 They are not of the world, just as I also am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in truth. Your word is truth. 18 Just as you have sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And it is for them that I sanctify myself, so that they, too, may be sanctified in truth. 20 But I am not praying for them only, but also for those who through their word shall believe in me.​

 

[MoreCoffee]

How much of you is "not of the world"?

What does it mean to be "not of the world"?

It looks kind of mysterious.

 

[psalms 91]

Not hard at all, what is of God and what is of the world. Ours is to be a spiritual kingdom and if we reside there then things of this earth will not affect us but I dont know anyone who does not have the world in them it is just a matter of to what degree

 

[MoreCoffee]

Not hard at all, what is of God and what is of the world. Ours is to be a spiritual kingdom and if we reside there then things of this earth will not affect us but I dont know anyone who does not have the world in them it is just a matter of to what degree

If it is spiritual then why do so many Christians make worldly politics their speciality? Why all the angst about voting Democrat? Why vote at all if the kingdom is spiritual and hence not a part of this world and all the worldly concerns that go with it.

 

[psalms 91]

If it is spiritual then why do so many Christians make worldly politics their speciality? Why all the angst about voting Democrat? Why vote at all if the kingdom is spiritual and hence not a part of this world and all the worldly concerns that go with it.

Because we are to be our brothers keeper and what they do once elected affects not only those who are not saved but also those who are. Policies affect our lives and the lives of everyone here

 

[MoreCoffee]

Because we are to be our brothers keeper and what they do once elected affects not only those who are not saved but also those who are. Policies affect our lives and the lives of everyone here

Somehow "brother's keeper" never strikes me as a license to impose my religious and moral values on my "brothers". But politics is all about imposing one set of policies on the whole nation. Is it godly to use worldly means to change your brothers' thinking and make them - possibly by force of arms - obedient to the values you currently hold but that you may change later in life as experience teaches you to understand how different other people can be from yourself?

 

[psalms 91]

Somehow "brother's keeper" never strikes me as a license to impose my religious and moral values on my "brothers". But politics is all about imposing one set of policies on the whole nation. Is it godly to use worldly means to change your brothers' thinking and make them - possibly by force of arms - obedient to the values you currently hold but that you may change later in life as experience teaches you to understand how different other people can be from yourself?

Depends, for instance it is in everyones best interest to have a law banning murder and many othe rthings that are beneficial

 

[MoreCoffee]

Depends, for instance it is in everyones best interest to have a law banning murder and many othe rthings that are beneficial

Laws that ban murder are nearly universal in human cultures regardless of the religion or lack of religion in each society. But the bible is not limited to the obvious moral rules such as "do not kill", "do not steal", "do not lie in court" and such; it also has some missing things like "do not mistreat people simply because they are different from you in religion" and "be good to people who are in need even if they come from a group that your religion is teaching you to dislike" (think of Muslims who appear to be a target for some Christian preachers). Of course Jesus' story of the good Samaritan addresses the second matter and the first may be addressed by other parts of Christ's teaching but that never stops some who profess Christ from being very like the Levite and the Priest in the story of the good samaritan.

 

[psalms 91]

Laws that ban murder are nearly universal in human cultures regardless of the religion or lack of religion in each society. But the bible is not limited to the obvious moral rules such as "do not kill", "do not steal", "do not lie in court" and such; it also has some missing things like "do not mistreat people simply because they are different from you in religion" and "be good to people who are in need even if they come from a group that your religion is teaching you to dislike" (think of Muslims who appear to be a target for some Christian preachers). Of course Jesus' story of the good Samaritan addresses the second matter and the first may be addressed by other parts of Christ's teaching but that never stops some who profess Christ from being very like the Levite and the Priest in the story of the good samaritan.

This sort of departs from what you asked and my answer covered that. As to this, yes it is good to treat others as you would have people treat you and yes we interct with p[eople in the world so accepting the bible as Gods word and living it are what we are to do and profess. If everyione did this how much better this world would be but I also know prophecy and that isnt going to happen until Christ returns and sets up His kingdom and then we will not have to discuss what we would like or not because His rule will be just and there will be no debate about what is expected.

 

[tango]

How much of you is "not of the world"?

What does it mean to be "not of the world"?

It looks kind of mysterious.

"Not of the world" is a convenient mantra for people who don't have a good reason for their viewpoints. The argument usually goes something like "we are not to be of the world, the world drinks alcohol (or listens to rock music, or dances, or whatever else they dislike), therefore we shouldn't do that".

When it's pointed out that "the world" also wears clothes, goes to work, lives in houses, eats food etc, the spinning starts because apparently it's OK to do the things the person is OK with, even if "the world" also does them.

 

[tango]

Somehow "brother's keeper" never strikes me as a license to impose my religious and moral values on my "brothers". But politics is all about imposing one set of policies on the whole nation. Is it godly to use worldly means to change your brothers' thinking and make them - possibly by force of arms - obedient to the values you currently hold but that you may change later in life as experience teaches you to understand how different other people can be from yourself?

This is where I think the scope of government needs to be rolled back substantially. Protecting the fabric of society is one thing but at some point we have to look for freedom. Otherwise government becomes little more than a tyranny, even if backed by a notional majority.

I must admit I rather like the old-fashioned days when the conservative approach was that if you didn't like something you just didn't do it. It used to be said that if a conservative didn't like something he just didn't do it but if a liberal didn't like something he didn't want anyone else doing it either. And then came gay marriage, and the whole thing fell apart.

Being our brother's keeper is more about how we interact with our brother, not how we expect government to structure things. The Good Samaritan saw a man in need and dealt with it there and then. He didn't vote for more welfare for people dumped at the roadside, didn't demand more police on the streets to stop that sort of thing, didn't pass the buck to anyone else at all - he just dealt with the need as it arose.

 

[psalms 91]

"Not of the world" is a convenient mantra for people who don't have a good reason for their viewpoints. The argument usually goes something like "we are not to be of the world, the world drinks alcohol (or listens to rock music, or dances, or whatever else they dislike), therefore we shouldn't do that".

When it's pointed out that "the world" also wears clothes, goes to work, lives in houses, eats food etc, the spinning starts because apparently it's OK to do the things the person is OK with, even if "the world" also does them.

I believe it is called common sense. The bible says all things in moderation such as eating or drinking alcohol but excess is sin and to be avoided if for no other reason your health.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I believe it is called common sense. The bible says all things in moderation such as eating or drinking alcohol but excess is sin and to be avoided if for no other reason your health.

I do not recall a passage that says "all things in moderation". Can you give a reference?

 

[Arsenios]

If it is spiritual then why do so many Christians make worldly politics their speciality?

Why do YOU make worldly politics your specialty...???

Why all the angst about voting Democrat?

Why are almost all atheists and Satanists Democrats?

Why vote at all if the kingdom is spiritual and hence not a part of this world and all the worldly concerns that go with it.

Stewardship...

Why inject the poison of politics into theological discussion?

This is the second time you have brought politics into the Theology section...


Arsenios

 

[tango]

I believe it is called common sense. The bible says all things in moderation such as eating or drinking alcohol but excess is sin and to be avoided if for no other reason your health.

The kind of people who use the reasoning that anything they dislike can be considered "worldly" and therefore inappropriate for any Christian aren't known for their common sense nor for their sound reasoning.

I must admit I particularly enjoy the ones who use the internet (the place where tidal waves of porn are offered, among other undesirable things) to decry doing things that might conceivably be used for less noble causes.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Did anyone find that passage that allegedly says "all things in moderation" anywhere in their Protestant 66 book bible?