Hate

[MoreCoffee]

Sometimes the Lord said some strange things that require serious thought. One such saying is this:

Luke 14:25-33 Now great crowds traveled with him. And turning around, he said to them: 26 "If anyone comes to me, and does not hate his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, and yes, even his own life, he is not able to be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after me, is not able to be my disciple. 28 For who among you, wanting to build a tower, would not first sit down and determine the costs that are required, to see if he has the means to complete it? 29 Otherwise, after he will have laid the foundation and not been able to finish it, everyone who sees it may begin to mock him, 30 saying: "This man began to build what he was not able to finish." 31 Or, what king, advancing to engage in war against another king, would not first sit down and consider whether he may be able, with ten thousand, to meet one who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 If not, then while the other is still far away, sending a delegation, he would ask him for terms of peace. 33 Therefore, everyone of you who does not renounce all that he possesses is not able to be my disciple.​

Do you think that anybody can be the Lord's disciple according to the requirement stated by Jesus Christ?

 

[Josiah]

"Hate" = to disapprove.

ALL people are sinful and unclean.... ALL people are spiritually "sick" with sin .... ALL people sin by thought, word and deed; by things done and left undone.... ALL people should be "disapproved." See Psalm 5:5

Of course, ALL people are also to be loved (which is unconditional)

But I think Jesus here is referring to priorities. We are to keep the Fourth Commandment and love all, but we are to love God (and thus Jesus) above all. Then (as again now) it is not unusual for a believer to find himself surrounded by family who are not. Our relationship to Jesus is to be primary.

 

[ValleyGal]

God knows our hearts. I think this is shedding some light on what being a Christian could cost us. We can't really say we are Christians unless we are willing to pay what it might cost. There are believers all over the world who pay the cost every day, and it might cost some more than others. I think this is all about the commandment to have no other idols before God, including those people who are dearest to our heart...

 

[MoreCoffee]

"Hate" = to disapprove.

I disapprove of coca cola but I do not hate it; are you confident that hate is the same thing as disapproval?

 

[MoreCoffee]

God knows our hearts. I think this is shedding some light on what being a Christian could cost us. We can't really say we are Christians unless we are willing to pay what it might cost. There are believers all over the world who pay the cost every day, and it might cost some more than others. I think this is all about the commandment to have no other idols before God, including those people who are dearest to our heart...

I see your line of thought and agree with it but what the Lord said isn't "you might need to follow me even if that means your family will feel abandoned and hated and you may yourself feel hated because following me involves so much self denial". HIs words do not take that form he is reported to have said If anyone comes to me, and does not hate his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, and yes, even his own life, he is not able to be my disciple.

 

[RichWh1]

Sometimes the Lord said some strange things that require serious thought. One such saying is this:

Luke 14:25-33 Now great crowds traveled with him. And turning around, he said to them: 26 "If anyone comes to me, and does not hate his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, and yes, even his own life, he is not able to be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after me, is not able to be my disciple. 28 For who among you, wanting to build a tower, would not first sit down and determine the costs that are required, to see if he has the means to complete it? 29 Otherwise, after he will have laid the foundation and not been able to finish it, everyone who sees it may begin to mock him, 30 saying: "This man began to build what he was not able to finish." 31 Or, what king, advancing to engage in war against another king, would not first sit down and consider whether he may be able, with ten thousand, to meet one who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 If not, then while the other is still far away, sending a delegation, he would ask him for terms of peace. 33 Therefore, everyone of you who does not renounce all that he possesses is not able to be my disciple.​

Do you think that anybody can be the Lord's disciple according to the requirement stated by Jesus Christ?

When Jesus spoke these words what He meant is that anyone who loves father and mother more than they love me cannot be My disciple
It's a comparative term not a derogatory one.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MoreCoffee]

When Jesus spoke these words what He meant is that anyone who loves father and mother more than they love me cannot be My disciple
It's a comparative term not a derogatory one.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But it does say "hate". That is not a mistaken translation. The words in Greek are:

εἴ τις ἔρχεται πρός με καὶ οὐ μισεῖ τὸν πατέρα ἑαυτοῦ καὶ τὴν μητέρα καὶ τὴν γυναῖκα καὶ τὰ τέκνα καὶ τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς καὶ τὰς ἀδελφάς, ἔτι τε καὶ τὴν ἑαυτοῦ ψυχὴν, οὐ δύναται μοι μαθητὴς εἶναί.*​

μισεῖ is the word for hate.

Strong's says:

μισέω miseō mis-eh'-o
From a primary word μῖσος misos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).​

The Word Study Dictionary says:

μισέω
miséō; contracted misṓ, fut. misḗsō. To hate.

• With the acc. of person, usually implying active ill will in words and conduct, a persecuting spirit (Mat 5:43 where it stands as opposite to agapáō [G25], to love, in Mat 5:44; Mat 10:22; Mat 24:9-10; Mar 13:13; Luk 1:71; Luk 6:22, Luk 6:27; Luk 19:14; Luk 21:17; Joh 7:7; Joh 15:18-19, Joh 15:23-25; Joh 17:14; Tit 3:3; 1Jn 2:9, 1Jn 2:11; 1Jn 3:13, 1Jn 3:15; 1Jn 4:20; Sept.: Gen 37:4; Lev 26:17). By implication, meaning to persecute (Rev 17:16; Sept.: 2Sa 5:8; 2Sa 22:18).
• With the acc. of thing meaning to detest, abhor (Joh 3:20; Rom 7:15; Eph 5:29; Heb 1:9; Jud 1:23; Rev 2:6, Rev 2:15; Rev 18:2).
• Specifically as the opposite of agapáō (G25), to love, or philéō (G5368), to be a friend to, it is equivalent to not loving, loveless, to slight, with the acc. of person (Mat 6:24; Luk 16:13; Joh 12:25; Rom 9:13; Sept.: Gen 29:31; Deu 21:16; Mal 1:3).
• To love less. In Luk 14:26 Jesus contrasts love to family with love to Himself "If any come to me, and hate [miseí, pres. act. indic. 3d person sing.] not his father, and mother, and wife, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Here Jesus asserts His deity. Every member of man's family is a human being, and the love shown to humans compared to the love shown to Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, must be so different that the former seems like hatred. The meaning of miséō as loving less is made clear in Mat 10:37, "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." In His commands for loving other human beings, the Lord never said, "Love other human beings as you love Me," but "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" (Mat 19:19). When it comes to loving God, however, He is placed in a unique position (Mat 22:37-38).

You can interpret it to mean "love less" as some do but the word means "hate".
​

 

[RichWh1]

That is a Hebrew expression that was common in the days of Jesus.
You cannot take the word literally since Jesus would never have asked anyone to hate their parents.
You also have to remember that Jesus spoke in parables.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MoreCoffee]

That is a Hebrew expression that was common in the days of Jesus.
You cannot take the word literally since Jesus would never have asked anyone to hate their parents.
You also have to remember that Jesus spoke in parables.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is confusing how sometimes a word is literal and sometimes it is not and how whole systems of dogma can hang off taking a word literally and then we have things like "hate" being interpreted away altogether with "Jesus would never ask anyone to hate" when in this passage Jesus clearly does ask any who want to be his disciples to hate. I appreciate the sentiment and agree with it but the word still means "hate".

 

[ValleyGal]

How can we hate those we are commanded to honour? I choose honour.

 

[atpollard]

[Matthew 22:36-40 NASB]
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
37 And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment.
39 "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

Do you think God might have a problem if we reversed the order of these commandments?

Most important thing = 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
Second most important thing = ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD’.


... and how much should we love God more than our neighbor? Would it be OK if we only loved God a little more than ‘ourself’?

 

[atpollard]

It is confusing how sometimes a word is literal and sometimes it is not and how whole systems of dogma can hang off taking a word literally and then we have things like "hate" being interpreted away altogether with "Jesus would never ask anyone to hate" when in this passage Jesus clearly does ask any who want to be his disciples to hate. I appreciate the sentiment and agree with it but the word still means "hate".

Fortunately God knew we (at least I am) are slow learners, so anything important He repeats over, and over and over.

So How many times does God say to love God?
How many times does God say to love others?
How many times does God say to hate someone?

Look at all of Scripture, and the big picture is a lot less hard to figure out than one word in one verse.

 

[JRT]

Hate is like a powerful acid --- it corrodes the container in which it is stored as much as the object on which it is poured.

 

[Arsenios]

That is a Hebrew expression that was common in the days of Jesus.
You cannot take the word literally since Jesus would never have asked anyone to hate their parents.
You also have to remember that Jesus spoke in parables.

Then what does Jesus MEAN when using the word hatred of parents etc...??

I think the Church interprets this passage as meaning hatred of one's love of creation above one's love of God...

Compared to creation, God alone is to be loved...

Compared to this love, creation is to be hated...

Loving one's neighbor as one's self is to hate self and deny self, and the same with one's neighbor...

eg One is to love neighbor insofar as attaining the neighbor's love of God in denial of self...




Arsenios

 

[MoreCoffee]

How can we hate those we are commanded to honour? I choose honour.

Other will disagree with what I write but I am convinced that any command that requires bad treatment of others is a bad commandment even if it is in the bible. Killing people, maiming them, shunning them, and all the other things that people do one to another are not good no matter what gods are invoked to make them acceptable. Jehovah, Yahweh, Jesus, Allah, Vishnu or any other god that demands that you treat other people badly for whatever reason is a bad god to obey.