God still chooses.

MennoSota

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Anyone can get faith it is up to them if they are thirsty for God or not.

John 7:37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, "Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink.


All can seek God.
The elect were the Jews because they were blood relatives of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, whom God loved.


The Gentiles were called unclean enemies of God because they didn't get circumcised and do the other purification works of the law.


The Jews were the clean people, they were the ones adopted children of God, theirs was the promises, and from whom the Savior of the world came.
The Gentiles did not come into the covenant and atone for their sins.


God does not save unbelievers first and then cause them to repent.
There is no scripture anywhere where God saves unbelievers.
A person must believe first and repent of their sins.


I belong to Christ's body which is the church.
First. No to everything you said.
Second, read Ephesians 1 and 2 then get back to me.
 

RichWh1

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32*I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32
God does cause sinners to repentance
Believers have no reason to repent; sinners do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

YourTruthGod

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If God willed it, then it would happen. The Sovereign King does not will all to be pardoned and redeemed. He is not obligated to do so.
The scriptures say plainly that God wants all to repent of their sins and live.

Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them: 'As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked should turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'

1 Timothy 2:4
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

This was not repentance unto salvation.
John's repentance was the same call as Jonah's call to Ninevah.
John the baptizer, Jesus Christ himself, and the apostle preached the same one and only gospel, and it is to repent of your sins and have faith in Jesus.

JOHN THE BAPTIZER

Luke 3:8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves,


PAUL

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.


JESUS


Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish

The remnant are the elect, whom God chose to give faith
Jesus came first for those who already had faith in God.

Why are you arguing legalism as the means of salvation?

Doing what Jesus says is never ever wrong.
 

YourTruthGod

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32*I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32
God does cause sinners to repentance
Believers have no reason to repent; sinners do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi RichWh1;

I don't think I understand what you mean about believers have no reason to repent.

All are sinners and we all must admit it to be saved.
 

YourTruthGod

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A covenant is a legal agreement between two parties. God made the covenant between himself and the elect.
Anyone can come into the covenant.

Only the elect can obey. The rest are in outright rebellion. Hostile to God.
They chose to be that way.

Isaiah 65:12 I will destine you for the sword, and all of you will fall in the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me."

See my response above.
Only the elect can obey. The imitators try to do it themselves and utterly fail.
If you have not been reconciled by God's Sovereign, divine, decree...you are dead in your trespasses and sins. Your righteousness is as filthy rags.

If anyone does what Jesus says to do, he is truthful will save them.

John 8:31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
 

MennoSota

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The scriptures say plainly that God wants all to repent of their sins and live.

Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them: 'As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked should turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'

1 Timothy 2:4
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


John the baptizer, Jesus Christ himself, and the apostle preached the same one and only gospel, and it is to repent of your sins and have faith in Jesus.

JOHN THE BAPTIZER

Luke 3:8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves,


PAUL

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.


JESUS


Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish


Jesus came first for those who already had faith in God.



Doing what Jesus says is never ever wrong.
You butcher God's word into little sentences and ignore the whole. What you claim the text means is not supported by the context around it. You are supported by weak crutches that fall upon further inspection. Do some inspection before posting such poor prooftexts.
 

MennoSota

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Anyone can come into the covenant.


They chose to be that way.

Isaiah 65:12 I will destine you for the sword, and all of you will fall in the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me."

See my response above.


If anyone does what Jesus says to do, he is truthful will save them.

John 8:31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
Only the elect will respond. Dead men cannot repent or respond.
 

YourTruthGod

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You butcher God's word into little sentences and ignore the whole. What you claim the text means is not supported by the context around it. You are supported by weak crutches that fall upon further inspection. Do some inspection before posting such poor prooftexts.

All scripture is God breathed. No scripture can be put aside.

John 12:35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came--and Scripture cannot be set aside--
 

MennoSota

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All scripture is God breathed. No scripture can be put aside.

John 12:35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came--and Scripture cannot be set aside--

Indeed, "ALL" scripture. So stop prooftexting by using a sentence or two out of context. You're busy copying and pasting a sentence from here and a sentence from there while being utterly clueless as to the context surrounding the sentences. You use the Bible like a Muslim, an Atheist or a cult member. Respect the entire word of God...ALL scripture. The whole of scripture defines the interpretation of one or two sentences. You tire me with your ignorance.
 

YourTruthGod

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MennoSota,

We can use any scripture and it be truth.
 

Andrew

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MennoSota,

We can use any scripture and it be truth.
I've learned to appreciate Menno :), reading in context makes any single verse even sharper. The context and significance we can gather throughout the bible suggest and reveal that all mankind is completely and utterly deprived of seeking the goodness and fullness of God on their own, this is due to the events ascribed to us in Genesis. Man was perfect and just in the eyes of God and walked side by side with God and in is own image, in a beautiful paradise with no thorns, weeds, or thistles... Just like the angels before were kicked out of Heaven due to their rebellion, so was man from the garden after he and his wife rebelled, and as a result of mans rebellion against God freedom is always geared toward unrighteousness.
No one is capable of choosing their own pathway to God in Heaven, nor can we help another do so, we are completely dead in our sin. An unjust God would give humans the cold shoulder and that kind of creator is a careless kind, the good news is that God IS Just and Holy and Sovereign and Loving and merciful and forgiving, he has given eternal Life to his people, his people are as those who sing the Lords song in a strange land... we know and can sense wickedness abound but it's because God has regenerated the souls of his own Elect, his sheep, and as his we are thus Saved and assured and are aware that the rest of mankind is set solely on destruction.
So as a Christian, what we do is not of ourselves or of free will, we share in his Glory because he chose us, we do good because he chose us, we are blameless before him because we are his and he chose us, he made us!
God has sent prophets and kings for you!
God sent his only begotten Son to die on the cross, enter hell for 3 days, resurrect, ascend to Heaven with the keys and deed to Heaven for YOU the believer!
Nothing you can do can impress the potter, he loves you and made you to share in his glory and because you believe.. you can believe that he is Sovereign and has always loved his meek and humble servants who listens when he calls.
:)
 
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YourTruthGod

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I've learned to appreciate Menno :), reading in context makes any single verse even sharper. The context and significance we can gather throughout the bible suggest and reveal that all mankind is completely and utterly deprived of seeking the goodness and fullness of God on their own, this is due to the events ascribed to us in Genesis. Man was perfect and just in the eyes of God and walked side by side with God and in is own image, in a beautiful paradise with no thorns, weeds, or thistles... Just like the angels before were kicked out of Heaven due to their rebellion, so was man from the garden after he and his wife rebelled, and as a result of mans rebellion against God freedom is always geared toward unrighteousness.
No one is capable of choosing their own pathway to God in Heaven, nor can we help another do so, we are completely dead in our sin. An unjust God would give humans the cold shoulder and that kind of creator is a careless kind, the good news is that God IS Just and Holy and Sovereign and Loving and merciful and forgiving, he has given eternal Life to his people, his people are as those who sing the Lords song in a strange land... we know and can sense wickedness abound but it's because God has regenerated the souls of his own Elect, his sheep, and as his we are thus Saved and assured and are aware that the rest of mankind is set solely on destruction.
So as a Christian, what we do is not of ourselves or of free will, we share in his Glory because he chose us, we do good because he chose us, we are blameless before him because we are his and he chose us, he made us!
God has sent prophets and kings for you!
God sent his only begotten Son to die on the cross, enter hell for 3 days, resurrect, ascend to Heaven with the keys and deed to Heaven for YOU the believer!
Nothing you can do can impress the potter, he loves you and made you to share in his glory and because you believe.. you can believe that he is Sovereign and has always loved his meek and humble servants who listens when he calls.
:)

I see no scripture that says we cannot believe and obey God. There is no scripture that says God saves unbelievers.
 

Andrew

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There is no scripture that says God saves unbelievers.
That's absolutely true, we obey in our belief and faith in Christ and not through mans sole obedience to what he feels fit for
 

YourTruthGod

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That's absolutely true, we obey in our belief and faith in Christ and not through mans sole obedience to what he feels fit for

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.
 

Andrew

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Andrew

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Are you saying we have free will to believe in God but not to obey Him; or, no free will to believe or obey?
Mankind does not have the power to obey God, we must be regenerated (reborn) for our works to be pleasing to God, we can't just skip over the work on the cross and put our salvation at the risk of our own doings, that attitude implies "well Christ did most of the part but without my help he has no chance in redeeming me"... Faith is given by God and not by man.
In Faith we become his workmanship
 

YourTruthGod

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Mankind does not have the power to obey God, we must be regenerated (reborn) for our works to be pleasing to God, we can't just skip over the work on the cross and put our salvation at the risk of our own doings, that attitude implies "well Christ did most of the part but without my help he has no chance in redeeming me"... Faith is given by God and not by man.
In Faith we become his workmanship

Just so you know, I do not believe what you are saying, but I am in no way questioning your salvation.

I believe that mankind does have the ability to do what God says to do; and, God only regenerates us with the Holy Spirit after we do some things that Jesus tells us to do.

If we do what Jesus says to do, it is to trust him, it is to trust him on how to get saved.

There is no skipping over what Jesus did, never ever, God forbid.
 

Andrew

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Just so you know, I do not believe what you are saying, but I am in no way questioning your salvation.

I believe that mankind does have the ability to do what God says to do; and, God only regenerates us with the Holy Spirit after we do some things that Jesus tells us to do.

If we do what Jesus says to do, it is to trust him, it is to trust him on how to get saved.

There is no skipping over what Jesus did, never ever, God forbid.
Amen brother, we have a role indeed but it's God who comes first in all that we do.
Revelation tells us that not all will be saved, quite a few actually, but I'm not trying to challenge anyone's salvation either
 
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