What happens between death and the resurrection?

[ThreeAngels]

My dad always asks me this and I usually end up saying that God and heaven are outside of time and that the soul is eternal, I just don't have any answer other than that.
How would you answer this question? because I have also heard this question from a few other people as well... again I don't believe in a waiting room, I imagine a timeless gathering of believers in heaven

Only Jesus has immortality. As the apostle says, "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who ONLY hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen." 1Tim 6:14-16.
When we die the body returns to the dust and the spirit returns to God. The thoughts and feelings of the dead are at an end. The wise man says, "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." Eccl. 9:5,6.
To this the psalmist agrees, saying, "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." Psa. 146:4.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[psalms 91]

Body to dirt...
Soul to heaven or hell...
Spirit to ???


Arsenios

Returns to God

 

[Arsenios]

Returns to God

If the spirit returns to God, what is the human hypostasis and where does it go?


Arsenios

 

[psalms 91]

What does the bible say? You seem to want to debate something that scripture spells out

 

[Pedrito]

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In Post #2, the Poster presented some Scripture and added a comment, thus:

Hebrews 12:18-19,22-24
For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them.
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Notice that the first born are in heaven, not a waiting place.

Perhaps, as others choose to do, he overlooked something.

Was Paul writing to people who were already in Heaven? Because if the translation “you have come to” is correct, then if the firstborns are in heaven as the Poster suggests, then so are the people being written to. And by extension, so is that Poster himself, as well as Andrew (if they qualify as belonging to the select company that included Paul’s addressees). I am unsure what form of Internet access exists there, but I suppose there must be minimal down time. They are still able to tender Posts.

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But in fact, if the Scripture verses tendered are read without necessary bias, it all becomes clear. The people joined by the addressees were enrolled in heaven. Just like children are enrolled for school classes before their actual attendance. Especially private schools (in Australia)*. See Arsenios’ Post #7.

And as for “and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect”, are the spirits of the righteous different from the living firstborns (firstborn ones, plural) that Paul’s readers had supposedly joined?

The meaning of these verses appears to very different from what we have been conditioned to believe. The meaning seems to be one of status (status only – important though that status be).

However, logical consideration won’t stop the continuing use of those verses to bolster preconditioned beliefs. Post-apostolic beliefs have to get support from somewhere, somehow.

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* Enrolment rules issued by Waverley College, located near the famous Bondi Beach in Sydney, as they were:

APPLICATION DEADLINES FOR ENTRY FROM 2020

- Applications for Year 7 in 2020 should be lodged by Thursday 31 May 2018. Interviews will be conducted and offers made during Terms 3 and 4, 2018.
- Applications for Year 5 in 2020 should be lodged by Friday 30 November 2018. Interviews will be conducted and offers made during Term 1, 2019.
- Applications for entry in 2021 and later are currently being accepted – final closing dates will be advised.

The College is currently finalising its enrolment intakes for Years 5 and 7 for 2019. For these two Year groups you should contact the Registrar prior to lodging your application to ensure that it can be considered for 2019 entry. The College has some limited availability in other years for 2018 and 2019 enrolment.

Enrolment and location are separate in time.

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[Arsenios]

Only Jesus has immortality. As the apostle says, "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who ONLY hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen." 1Tim 6:14-16.
When we die the body returns to the dust and the spirit returns to God. The thoughts and feelings of the dead are at an end. The wise man says, "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." Eccl. 9:5,6.
To this the psalmist agrees, saying, "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." Psa. 146:4.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die:
but the dead know not any thing,
neither have they any more a reward;
for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished;
neither have they any more a portion for ever
in any thing that is done under the sun.

The Living in the OT are the Circumcision...
The dead are the Gentiles apart from the Circumcision...

The Living know what the dead do not...

I could be wrong, but I think this passage is referring to two categories of men on earth in OT times...

In NT times, the Living are those Baptized into Christ...

The dead are those not so Baptized...

Christ will judge the Living and the dead...


Arsenios

 

[tango]

This is probably one of those things we will never know. I don't have my Bible to hand so excuse the lack of references (I can look them up if needs be, when I'm on my laptop).

The idea that "the dead in Christ shall rise first" suggests that those who are dead must rise. If they are rising it suggests they aren't already in a state we might call full glory. Then in the Revelation we see the people crying out "how long" - these are the people who were slain for Christ and who presumably are waiting for some future event.

The issue with the thief on the cross is an interesting one. From what I understand Greek doesn't have punctuation marks in it so if translators have added punctuation there is a degree of interpretation in it. If we start from the sentence "I tell you the truth this day you will be with me in paradise" we could conceivably put the comma in two different places - "I tell you the truth, this day you will be with me in paradise" or "I tell you the truth this day, you will be with me in paradise". Both are clear in their reward - "you will be with me in paradise" but the first says the hearer will be in paradise today (i.e. right after he dies, given his life expectancy wasn't very long) and the second offers the promise today that will be kept at some unspecified future date.

I can't say I know the answer to this question but I find the idea of some kind of transition seems to have more Scriptural support.

 

[MennoSota]

He did exist...

And Lazarus of Four Days fell asleep...

Yet Lazarus the Suffering died and abode in the Bossom of Abraham...

Mystery...


Arsenios

What about Samuel and the witch of Endor...

 

[psalms 91]

What about Samuel and the witch of Endor...

What about it, it wasnt of God so it leads us to know that satan can copy and even imitate people who have passe on, it was an evil spirit

 

[MennoSota]

What about it, it wasnt of God so it leads us to know that satan can copy and even imitate people who have passe on, it was an evil spirit

It was the ACTUAL Samuel. It WAS of God. No imitation, which is why the witch became so scared.

 

[Pedrito]

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Arsenios, Post #23 [emphasis added[:

If the spirit returns to God, what is the human hypostasis and where does it go?

That may well depend on the definition of “human hypostasis” given in the Bible (if there is one – maybe it is a purely human concept, and therefore pagan). Where do we find it?

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Arsenios, in Post #26, tendered (in part):

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die:
but the dead know not any thing,
neither have they any more a reward;
for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished;
neither have they any more a portion for ever
in any thing that is done under the sun.

The Living in the OT are the Circumcision...
The dead are the Gentiles apart from the Circumcision...

Does that mean that all the descendants of Jacob who were circumcised (which included the women who were not, did it not?) – i.e. “the Circumcision” – were “Living”? Even those that were evil and rejected the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? And does it mean that every uncircumcised person (excluding the women above) was Hell-bound?

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Ibid, [blank lines remove to conserve space]:

The Living know what the dead do not...
I could be wrong, but I think this passage is referring to two categories of men on earth in OT times...
In NT times, the Living are those Baptized into Christ...
The dead are those not so Baptized...
Christ will judge the Living and the dead...

I guess that that likewise means: everyone who is baptised (baptised in an “acceptable” manner. that is), is “Living” – even those who turn out to be evil, and who reject the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in our day.

An interesting concept.

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[TurtleHare]

"...we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed"
It's odd how this is stated, it could mean that many will sleep (until resurrection?) but also those who are alive will be changed as well in a twinkling of an eye (rapture?) OR it could mean that ALL shall NOT sleep and that ALL SHALL be changed (no sleep)
but it goes on to say that the dead will rise first (those asleep) so I do tend to see that maybe a deep coma similar to adams deep sleep would not be such a bad thing, it would seem like a twinkling of an eye, kind of like when you wake up and can't remember your dreams all you know is you fell asleep and now you are in the future (so to speak)... either way I see them both comforting but anyways...
Also [MENTION=204]TurtleHare[/MENTION] I've seen it read "but I tell you today, ye shall be with me in paradise"

Mhmm cuz God is not bound by our time and in a twinkling goes by real fast, no time to sleep.

 

[atpollard]

[1Co 15:51 NASB] 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,

Context is everything ...

[1Co 15:42-49 NASB] 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable [body,] it is raised an imperishable [body;] 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual [body.] 45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam [became] a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

First Paul called to our attention the reality of the difference between the earthly (old) man and the heavenly (spiritual) man that awaits us.

[1Co 15:50-57 NASB] 50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. 55 "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Then Paul warns that there is no place for the old man in the new kingdom. “We will not all sleep” is a poetic metaphor for death; Paul is saying that not everyone will taste death but some will be alive when the Lord returns. Yet dead or alive at His return (the last trumpet), we will all be transformed from corruptible flesh (a body that grows old and dies) into incorruptible (a body that is eternal). This will be the ultimate fulfillment, according to Paul, of the promise to end the reign of death begun with Adam. (From whose power we are already free by the power of the promise of Christ.)