What is God's role in salvation?

[Arsenios]

You mishandle God's word and twist it with myths and fictional traditions. You have proved it with your salvation by works teaching.

Your Church did not write the Bible...

Mine is the Church at Antioch where Paul established it in Syria 2000 years ago...

Paul wrote about half the New Testament...

Who established your church?

Why do you act like a spitting little brat?

Do you find bravery in you anonymity here?


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Your Church did not write the Bible...

Mine is the Church at Antioch where Paul established it in Syria 2000 years ago...

Paul wrote about half the New Testament...

Who established your church?

Why do you act like a spitting little brat?

Do you find bravery in you anonymity here?


Arsenios

Your church did not write the Bible. Your church has created mythical traditions found nowhere in scripture and made the traditions of greater importance than God and his word. Jesus condemns your traditions like he condemns the Judaisers. Let that sink in. Throw out the worthless, mythical traditions.

 

[Lamb]

STAFF NOTICE: Do not make things personal. We allow the flaming of beliefs but not the person or the way that they think.

 

[Arsenios]

STAFF NOTICE: Do not make things personal. We allow the flaming of beliefs but not the person or the way that they think.

Thank-you...


A.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Your Church did not write the Bible...

Mine is the Church at Antioch where Paul established it in Syria 2000 years ago...

Paul wrote about half the New Testament...

Who established your church?

Why do you act like a spitting little brat?

Do you find bravery in you anonymity here?


Arsenios

Neither your church nor mine wrote the bible. Some people long dead wrote it. Our churches like to claim lineal descent from the writers. The claim may be true. MennoSota doesn't like the claims of our churches. In the end who can decide the matter here in CH? I think no one can. We choose what we believe. Sometimes the choice is well founded and it pleases us when that is so. Sometimes the choice is not so pleasing even if it is well founded. I can't help but think that each member of CH is in the same boat. None of us was there when the things reported in holy scripture happened. We can't prove that any of it really happened. We choose to believe that it did. That is the heart of the matter. We believe what we choose to believe. I like holy tradition and so do you. Our traditions differ so we are not in full communion. Mennosota and Lamm and Romanos and Josiah and so on have made their choices. They may change them. We may change ours. But none of us can rightly claim to know for sure who is right. We can show what is wrong based on one view of scripture & tradition or another. That is all. We can't prove what is right without accepting some tradition of some kind. It may be narrow (as Josiah says so often) tradition. Like believing in a 66 book bible. It may be wider like believing in a 73 book bible and holy tradition. Or it may be something else such as your view of holy scripture and holy tradition. That is all.

Faith is about the choice to believe that we make. Call it a gift from God if you please. As it happens I please to call it that. A grace imparted by God. But I can't prove it. Nor can Josiah. Nor MennoSota,

Fight with one another if it fills the empty hours. It certainly can be interesting to fight for "the faith". But does it do any good here in CH? I do not think it does.

Other fields may be better for growing the faith.

Other people may be less contentious.

So Arsenios, press on and see what comes of it.

 

[Arsenios]

Neither your church nor mine wrote the bible. Some people long dead wrote it. Our churches like to claim lineal descent from the writers. The claim may be true. MennoSota doesn't like the claims of our churches. In the end who can decide the matter here in CH? I think no one can. We choose what we believe. Sometimes the choice is well founded and it pleases us when that is so. Sometimes the choice is not so pleasing even if it is well founded. I can't help but think that each member of CH is in the same boat. None of us was there when the things reported in holy scripture happened. We can't prove that any of it really happened. We choose to believe that it did. That is the heart of the matter. We believe what we choose to believe. I like holy tradition and so do you. Our traditions differ so we are not in full communion. Mennosota and Lamm and Romanos and Josiah and so on have made their choices. They may change them. We may change ours. But none of us can rightly claim to know for sure who is right. We can show what is wrong based on one view of scripture & tradition or another. That is all. We can't prove what is right without accepting some tradition of some kind. It may be narrow (as Josiah says so often) tradition. Like believing in a 66 book bible. It may be wider like believing in a 73 book bible and holy tradition. Or it may be something else such as your view of holy scripture and holy tradition. That is all.

Faith is about the choice to believe that we make. Call it a gift from God if you please. As it happens I please to call it that. A grace imparted by God. But I can't prove it. Nor can Josiah. Nor MennoSota,

Fight with one another if it fills the empty hours. It certainly can be interesting to fight for "the faith". But does it do any good here in CH? I do not think it does.

Other fields may be better for growing the faith.

Other people may be less contentious.

So Arsenios, press on and see what comes of it.

Wise words indeed, MoreCoffee...

Let me pour you another cup!


Arsenios

 

[RichWh1]

I only know metanoia - What is the other one?


Arsenios

The Greek word metanoia means a change of mind,, to think the opposite way you were thinking.


Sent from my Z557BL using Tapatalk

 

[Arsenios]

Neither your church nor mine wrote the bible.

Well, that is true enough, but it is fair to say that members of the Ekklesia did the writing...
Holy men of God...
And it is also true to say that the Church preserved these writings across 1500 years...
Until the printing presses and translation committees took over...

I do not suffer the thought that I will change anyone's mind on doctrines...
What I hope to do is simply to befriend those with whom I disagree...
And to walk with them in their theological shoes for a few steps...
And to part from them as one who cares for their soul...

If I can but succeed in that, I will depart this life in peace...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The Greek word metanoia means a change of mind,, to think the opposite way you were thinking.

It does entail an about face, and this because it means a change in the nous..
Meta means change, and nova means pertaining to the nous...
We translate nous as mind, and in a way it is...
But it is not thoughts and feelings and opinions and the like...
It is much more fundamental than that...
It is the orientation of the person...
The nous is the eye of the heart...
The director of perception...
The ruler of thoughts...
Demon possession is demonic control of the nous...
Which controls the person...
Which controls the body...

It is the logical progression of turning away from God...
It is a Grace given us by God if we turn away...
That we see for ourselves the direction we have turned...
The Church exorcises these at Baptism...
And sometimes apart from Baptism out of compassion...
And not only for Christians but for anyone so possessed...

Enough...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Faith is about the choice to believe that we make.

I disagree with the statement above.
Faith is not about a choice we make to believe.
Left to ourselves we will always not believe. Instead we will place our trust in self and do whatever it takes to survive and control the people around us to our benefit. Faith won't even be a thought in our minds except as how we can manipulate others with a false concept of faith
Faith is about God giving us the gracious ability to believe despite our selves.
Hebrews 11:1-3
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

 

[MennoSota]

It does entail an about face, and this because it means a change in the nous..
Meta means change, and nova means pertaining to the nous...
We translate nous as mind, and in a way it is...
But it is not thoughts and feelings and opinions and the like...
It is much more fundamental than that...
It is the orientation of the person...
The nous is the eye of the heart...
The director of perception...
The ruler of thoughts...
Demon possession is demonic control of the nous...
Which controls the person...
Which controls the body...

It is the logical progression of turning away from God...
It is a Grace given us by God if we turn away...
That we see for ourselves the direction we have turned...
The Church exorcises these at Baptism...
And sometimes apart from Baptism out of compassion...
And not only for Christians but for anyone so possessed...

Enough...


Arsenios

This is the perfect example of repentance, which lead to a great awakening in Macedonia and Greece.

1 Thessalonians 1:8-10
For not only has the word of the Lord sounded forth from you in Macedonia and Achaia, but your faith in God has gone forth everywhere, so that we need not say anything. For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Notice how God changes their lives...then they repent...leaving behind their idols and turning to the God who had made them alive with Christ.

 

[Andrew]

I disagree with the statement above.
Faith is not about a choice we make to believe.
Left to ourselves we will always not believe. Instead we will place our trust in self and do whatever it takes to survive and control the people around us to our benefit. Faith won't even be a thought in our minds except as how we can manipulate others with a false concept of faith
Faith is about God giving us the gracious ability to believe despite our selves.
Hebrews 11:1-3
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

Truth! No man seeks God in our sinful and dead state, we must be regenerated (reborn) of the Holy Spirit, Faith comes from God as a gift and we (the elect) naturally accept it... We then transform, put on the new man and become Gods workmanship by grace, Faith is the whole because we cannot tear away from it, it sticks, it stays with us 24/7 and cannot escape us. Belief is another way of saying "now you know" you are aware that you believe but it's not some decision we made, again it comes from God always.

 

[Arsenios]

This is the perfect example of repentance, which lead to a great awakening in Macedonia and Greece.

1 Thessalonians 1:8-10
For not only has the word of the Lord sounded forth from you in Macedonia and Achaia, but your faith in God has gone forth everywhere, so that we need not say anything. For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Notice how God changes their lives...then they repent...leaving behind their idols and turning to the God who had made them alive with Christ.

Is the Call of God the Call to Sinners to Repent from their sins?

Does that Call change their lives?

Or does their repenting change their lives?

Or do the two work together? [synergy]

Not ALL Seed falls on fertile soil, you see...

Repentance is the moistening of dry soil...

The weeding of the garden...

The softening of the soil...

Cultivation of the ground...

Humus is humility...

The warm moist soil of repentance...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Is the Call of God the Call to Sinners to Repent from their sins?

Does that Call change their lives?

Or does their repenting change their lives?

Or do the two work together? [synergy]

Not ALL Seed falls on fertile soil, you see...

Repentance is the moistening of dry soil...

The weeding of the garden...

The softening of the soil...

Cultivation of the ground...

Humus is humility...

The warm moist soil of repentance...


Arsenios

God first chooses to make a person alive with Christ. Now that they are made right with God, God calls the newly alive person to repentance.
Repentance does not come before God gives life. It can't. The spiritually dead have no ability to repent.
Arsenios, you have repeatedly put the cart before the horse in your thinking about salvation.

 

[Arsenios]

God first chooses to make a person alive with Christ. Now that they are made right with God, God calls the newly alive person to repentance.
Repentance does not come before God gives life. It can't. The spiritually dead have no ability to repent.
Arsenios, you have repeatedly put the cart before the horse in your thinking about salvation.

When God Calls sinners to repentance, is He calling sinners?

And does His Call go out to sinners?

Or do you falsely believe God only calls those He has already made Righteous?

IF God Calls YOU to repentance, then you CAN repent...

Yet it is YOU who are to repent, even you the sinner...

Josiah argued the same, thinking that we are saved and then begin repenting...

This false doctrine infects much of western thinking to this day...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

When God Calls sinners to repentance, is He calling sinners?

And does His Call go out to sinners?

Or do you falsely believe God only calls those He has already made Righteous?

IF God Calls YOU to repentance, then you CAN repent...

Yet it is YOU who are to repent, even you the sinner...

Josiah argued the same, thinking that we are saved and then begin repenting...

This false doctrine infects much of western thinking to this day...


Arsenios

God calls those whom He has made alive in Christ to repentance.
In our human nature we still sin. Like the prodigal...who is the son of the Father...not a person outside the family...God calls us to repent.
Dead men cannot repent. No matter how desperately you wish it to be so that you can claim control...dead men cannot repent.
Those who do not believe will not repent.
Arsenios, you put the cart before the horse. You want non-believers to repent so that in doing they will believe. Your entire doctrine of salvation is man-centered God as a passive bystander until men do all they can do.

 

[Andrew]

God calls those whom He has made alive in Christ to repentance.
In our human nature we still sin. Like the prodigal...who is the son of the Father...not a person outside the family...God calls us to repent.
Dead men cannot repent. No matter how desperately you wish it to be so that you can claim control...dead men cannot repent.
Those who do not believe will not repent.
Arsenios, you put the cart before the horse. You want non-believers to repent so that in doing they will believe. Your entire doctrine of salvation is man-centered God as a passive bystander until men do all they can do.

True, a non believer wouldn't even want to repent, they wouldn't even care what that word even means, it's complete garbage and jarring to their ears.

 

[Arsenios]

True, a non believer wouldn't even want to repent, they wouldn't even care what that word even means, it's complete garbage and jarring to their ears.

I lived 36 years as an atheist in repentance from a major sin simply because it did not belong in me...
I sought to understand it so I could heal it or overcome it...
When I failed I met God...
The very God Whose existence I had denied...
And Whose followers I had so detested...
Unloving and judgemental hypocrites...


Arsenios

 

[Lamb]

When God Calls sinners to repentance, is He calling sinners?

And does His Call go out to sinners?

Or do you falsely believe God only calls those He has already made Righteous?

IF God Calls YOU to repentance, then you CAN repent...

Yet it is YOU who are to repent, even you the sinner...

Josiah argued the same, thinking that we are saved and then begin repenting...

This false doctrine infects much of western thinking to this day...


Arsenios

You have to ask yourself what the point of repentance is. Then remind yourself that salvation is by grace through faith and this is not of yourself. Repentance isn't just for you to be sorry for your sins and try to stop them. Why would God have repentance ONLY be about that? He doesn't. He wants us to have faith in Him and that faith is given to us as He turns us to Him (by grace through His word).

Repentance is for sinners...we sin daily so yes, we repent daily. Repentance has a purpose and that is to turn to God, where we should be because He calls us.

 

[Andrew]

I lived 36 years as an atheist in repentance from a major sin simply because it did not belong in me...
I sought to understand it so I could heal it or overcome it...
When I failed I met God...
The very God Whose existence I had denied...
And Whose followers I had so detested...
Unloving and judgemental hypocrites...


Arsenios

Same here brother, I was a complete atheist anti-Christ up until around the age 30 or so, I was at my lowest point and I began praying to God for help. Sometimes looking back I wonder what made me 'know' I was speaking to the God I had been so sure didn't exist, I wonder how many atheist will find themselves bowing their knees in prayer to the God they believed was make believe.
He was always there but in time he will reveal himself to those he loves.