Saved from what?

[Hammster]

If you were incapable of framing the topic so that it asked specifically what you wanted then the fault is in your original post and not in the replies you've received.

You asked "saved from what?" the answer is "saved from a human perspective" since that is the only perspective that human beings have.

If you intended to ask something else then you ought to state clearly what that something else is.

The original post says

I've answered its question.

I'm sure you think so.

 

[MoreCoffee]

From a human perspective - which is the only perspective we have regarding individuals and their claims regarding their salvation - the future is no known so claims that "I am saved" of necessity have a degree of uncertainty attached to them and claims that "the bible says I am saved" depend wholly on personal application of general statements made in holy scripture but the personal application is as uncertain as any other interpretation offered by an individual about the application of general statements in holy scripture. Thus a person who says "I am saved, I am a Christian" can fall away from the faith that they professed at the time of making the claim. I personally know several people who were absolutely certain of their calling and election twenty and more years ago and who are now committed atheists, one individual was a Pentecostal gentleman who wanted to be a pastor, another was a Calvinist bible teacher, a third was also a Calvinist who played music in services, yet another was a man who preached regularly in a Pentecostal meeting. All of these men (and in some cases their spouses) confessed salvation based on the certainty of God's promises and now all of them deny God altogether. So from a human perspective these went from 'salvation' to 'apostasy'.

I'm sure you think so.

I do.

 

[Hammster]

I do.

Except you don't believe they lose their salvation. You believe they just think they are saved.

 

[MoreCoffee]

From a human perspective - which is the only perspective we have regarding individuals and their claims regarding their salvation - the future is no known so claims that "I am saved" of necessity have a degree of uncertainty attached to them and claims that "the bible says I am saved" depend wholly on personal application of general statements made in holy scripture but the personal application is as uncertain as any other interpretation offered by an individual about the application of general statements in holy scripture. Thus a person who says "I am saved, I am a Christian" can fall away from the faith that they professed at the time of making the claim. I personally know several people who were absolutely certain of their calling and election twenty and more years ago and who are now committed atheists, one individual was a Pentecostal gentleman who wanted to be a pastor, another was a Calvinist bible teacher, a third was also a Calvinist who played music in services, yet another was a man who preached regularly in a Pentecostal meeting. All of these men (and in some cases their spouses) confessed salvation based on the certainty of God's promises and now all of them deny God altogether. So from a human perspective these went from 'salvation' to 'apostasy'.

Except you don't believe they lose their salvation. You believe they just think they are saved.

I believe that neither they nor I nor you know they are saved. But I, they, and you can observe the transition in their confession from "I am saved" to "I do not believe in God".

 

[Hammster]

I believe that neither they nor I nor you know they are saved. But I, they, and you can observe the transition in their confession from "I am saved" to "I do not believe in God".

So again, your view is not reflected in the OP.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Hammster, the OP is circular - or designed to be that way. It only allows for two answers. Soooo 1) "wow, I guess they were never saved from the beginning, even though it looked like it..." or 2) "wow, I was wrong, they were saved all along, and I guess I'm not God to suggest otherwise"

 

[Hammster]

Hammster, the OP is circular - or designed to be that way. It only allows for two answers. Soooo 1) "wow, I guess they were never saved from the beginning, even though it looked like it..." or 2) "wow, I was wrong, they were saved all along, and I guess I'm not God to suggest otherwise"

That's not circular.

 

[MoreCoffee]

So again, your view is not reflected in the OP.

Hammster, the OP is circular - or designed to be that way. It only allows for two answers. Soooo 1) "wow, I guess they were never saved from the beginning, even though it looked like it..." or 2) "wow, I was wrong, they were saved all along, and I guess I'm not God to suggest otherwise"

That's not circular.

The original Post is defective. What exactly do you want to know?

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

That's not circular.

Of course it is. Anything that begins with an end point in mind is, by definition, circular.

 

[Hammster]

Of course it is. Anything that begins with an end point in mind is, by definition, circular.

Then it's the view in question, and not my question, that is circular.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Then it's the view in question, and not my question, that is circular.

That of hyper-Calvinist predestination? Yep.

 

[Hammster]

That of hyper-Calvinist predestination? Yep.

I'm not a hyper-Calvinist.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I'm not a hyper-Calvinist.

You were speaking of the 'view', not yourself.

 

[Hammster]

You were speaking of the 'view', not yourself.

No. I wasn't. Not sure how you'd even come to that conclusion unless you just don't understand the OP.

 

[popsthebuilder]

144,000?

It states somewhere that there are only 144000 total saved. Don't know if that is the elect or not. Pretty sure I read it in more than one religions scripture. The bible was definitely one of them.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

nm

 

[Hammster]

Sorry. Read your post wrong. No, I've not talked about, nor thought about, hyper-Calvinism in this thread.

 

[Brighten04]

We are saved from the dead sin nature, and we are created anew in the Holy Ghost forever.

 

[Hammster]

We are saved from the dead sin nature, and we are created anew in the Holy Ghost forever.

Those who believe salvation can be lost have to deny that.

 

[psalms 91]

Do you still sin? if so your own testimony denies your position. Just because you are saved from the old sin natuire doesnt mena you cant still wallow in it