Saved from what?

[Alithis]

As to the OP, the point is to show that those who believe that Christ "saves" those whom He won't actually save are open theists in practice.

then your just splitting hairs for the sake of it .
he saves all who believe and OBEY .. many believe... obey ?.. not so much .
but that he warns us that one who sets his hand top the plough ..then looks back ..'aint going there and the virgins with their oil run dry .. don't get in .
your hair splitting detracts and distracts from the truth. it is not edifying .we are being saved daily .. as we obey daily .

 

[MoreCoffee]

Let's agree that Open Theism is false and that God is truly omniscient, even knowing all future events.

With that established, some folks think that truly saved believers can lose/forfeit their salvation. So my question is this: what exactly are they saved from? I cannot be hell, since that's where they will end up if they stay unrepentant. So if they are saved, from what are they saved?

From a human perspective - which is the only perspective we have regarding individuals and their claims regarding their salvation - the future is no known so claims that "I am saved" of necessity have a degree of uncertainty attached to them and claims that "the bible says I am saved" depend wholly on personal application of general statements made in holy scripture but the personal application is as uncertain as any other interpretation offered by an individual about the application of general statements in holy scripture. Thus a person who says "I am saved, I am a Christian" can fall away from the faith that they professed at the time of making the claim. I personally know several people who were absolutely certain of their calling and election twenty and more years ago and who are now committed atheists, one individual was a Pentecostal gentleman who wanted to be a pastor, another was a Calvinist bible teacher, a third was also a Calvinist who played music in services, yet another was a man who preached regularly in a Pentecostal meeting. All of these men (and in some cases their spouses) confessed salvation based on the certainty of God's promises and now all of them deny God altogether. So from a human perspective these went from 'salvation' to 'apostasy'.

 

[Hammster]

Ummmmm... Not quite what he said - (speaking of the disciples with him in the garden):
"Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none." (Jn. 18: 8-9, emphasis mine)

Um, that's exactly what He said.

 

[Hammster]

then your just splitting hairs for the sake of it .
he saves all who believe and OBEY .. many believe... obey ?.. not so much .
but that he warns us that one who sets his hand top the plough ..then looks back ..'aint going there and the virgins with their oil run dry .. don't get in .
your hair splitting detracts and distracts from the truth. it is not edifying .we are being saved daily .. as we obey daily .

They don't get in because they were not saved. You are not being edifying because you place a heavy yoke around believers. It's your obedience that helps save you. It is not all of grace.

 

[Hammster]

From a human perspective - which is the only perspective we have regarding individuals and their claims regarding their salvation - the future is no known so claims that "I am saved" of necessity have a degree of uncertainty attached to them and claims that "the bible says I am saved" depend wholly on personal application of general statements made in holy scripture but the personal application is as uncertain as any other interpretation offered by an individual about the application of general statements in holy scripture. Thus a person who says "I am saved, I am a Christian" can fall away from the faith that they professed at the time of making the claim. I personally know several people who were absolutely certain of their calling and election twenty and more years ago and who are now committed atheists, one individual was a Pentecostal gentleman who wanted to be a pastor, another was a Calvinist bible teacher, a third was also a Calvinist who played music in services, yet another was a man who preached regularly in a Pentecostal meeting. All of these men (and in some cases their spouses) confessed salvation based on the certainty of God's promises and now all of them deny God altogether. So from a human perspective these went from 'salvation' to 'apostasy'.

Not relevant.

 

[MoreCoffee]

From a human perspective - which is the only perspective we have regarding individuals and their claims regarding their salvation - the future is no known so claims that "I am saved" of necessity have a degree of uncertainty attached to them and claims that "the bible says I am saved" depend wholly on personal application of general statements made in holy scripture but the personal application is as uncertain as any other interpretation offered by an individual about the application of general statements in holy scripture. Thus a person who says "I am saved, I am a Christian" can fall away from the faith that they professed at the time of making the claim. I personally know several people who were absolutely certain of their calling and election twenty and more years ago and who are now committed atheists, one individual was a Pentecostal gentleman who wanted to be a pastor, another was a Calvinist bible teacher, a third was also a Calvinist who played music in services, yet another was a man who preached regularly in a Pentecostal meeting. All of these men (and in some cases their spouses) confessed salvation based on the certainty of God's promises and now all of them deny God altogether. So from a human perspective these went from 'salvation' to 'apostasy'.

Very relevant.

 

[Hammster]

Very relevant.

Not for this thread.

 

[popsthebuilder]

And again you ignore the fact that Christ is a Good Shepherd and we are His sheep. The sheep are given to Him by His Father. To say He would lose any for any reason is making Him a failure.

He didn't loose them. They are lying to themselves thinking they are saved or were saved ever if they are with sin. 144000 is a pretty small number when compared to the amount of sinful hypocrites that sinfully profess their salvation while in sin.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Josiah]

Sin, death and hell.

 

[Hammster]

Sin, death and hell.

Not really. They still end up in hell as sinners.

 

[Josiah]

Not really. They still end up in hell as sinners.

I disagree. I believe in salvation.

 

[Hammster]

I disagree. I believe in salvation.

I do, too.

 

[MoreCoffee]

He didn't loose them. They are lying to themselves thinking they are saved or were saved ever if they are with sin. 144000 is a pretty small number when compared to the amount of sinful hypocrites that sinfully profess their salvation while in sin.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

144,000?

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Um, that's exactly what He said.

In your little twist earlier, you would have us believe that everyone he saves (past, present, future), he has "lost none". In the verse, He was speaking of His Disciples. So, no. It's not what he said. Next...

 

[Hammster]

In your little twist earlier, you would have us believe that everyone he saves (past, present, future), he has "lost none". In the verse, He was speaking of His Disciples. So, no. It's not what he said. Next...

You might want to read all of John 10. And 6.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

From a human perspective - which is the only perspective we have regarding individuals and their claims regarding their salvation - the future is no known so claims that "I am saved" of necessity have a degree of uncertainty attached to them and claims that "the bible says I am saved" depend wholly on personal application of general statements made in holy scripture but the personal application is as uncertain as any other interpretation offered by an individual about the application of general statements in holy scripture. Thus a person who says "I am saved, I am a Christian" can fall away from the faith that they professed at the time of making the claim. I personally know several people who were absolutely certain of their calling and election twenty and more years ago and who are now committed atheists, one individual was a Pentecostal gentleman who wanted to be a pastor, another was a Calvinist bible teacher, a third was also a Calvinist who played music in services, yet another was a man who preached regularly in a Pentecostal meeting. All of these men (and in some cases their spouses) confessed salvation based on the certainty of God's promises and now all of them deny God altogether. So from a human perspective these went from 'salvation' to 'apostasy'.

Not relevant.

= "I have no Calvinist response to that, sorry"

 

[MoreCoffee]

From a human perspective - which is the only perspective we have regarding individuals and their claims regarding their salvation - the future is no known so claims that "I am saved" of necessity have a degree of uncertainty attached to them and claims that "the bible says I am saved" depend wholly on personal application of general statements made in holy scripture but the personal application is as uncertain as any other interpretation offered by an individual about the application of general statements in holy scripture. Thus a person who says "I am saved, I am a Christian" can fall away from the faith that they professed at the time of making the claim. I personally know several people who were absolutely certain of their calling and election twenty and more years ago and who are now committed atheists, one individual was a Pentecostal gentleman who wanted to be a pastor, another was a Calvinist bible teacher, a third was also a Calvinist who played music in services, yet another was a man who preached regularly in a Pentecostal meeting. All of these men (and in some cases their spouses) confessed salvation based on the certainty of God's promises and now all of them deny God altogether. So from a human perspective these went from 'salvation' to 'apostasy'.

Not relevant.

Very relevant.

Not for this thread.

"Saved from what?" your thread asks and the answer is given in the first quote above; one is saved from a human perspective but no human being on Earth knows who is and who is not eternally saved. Some folk like to claim they know that they themselves are eternally saved. Their claims are not backed by indisputable evidence. The general statements made in holy scripture may or may not apply to them.

 

[Hammster]

= "I have no Calvinist response to that, sorry"

I do, if that's what the thread was about. It's hard enough to keep these things from derailing.

Just a note: anyone can start a thread on a topic they'd like to discuss. There's no need to derail a thread.

 

[Hammster]

"Saved from what?" your thread asks and the answer is given in the first quote above; one is saved from a human perspective but no human being on Earth knows who is and who is not eternally saved. Some folk like to claim they know that they themselves are eternally saved. Their claims are not backed by indisputable evidence. The general statements made in holy scripture may or may not apply to them.

Your understanding of salvation isn't in view in the OP. So your posts are irrelevant.

 

[MoreCoffee]

From a human perspective - which is the only perspective we have regarding individuals and their claims regarding their salvation - the future is no known so claims that "I am saved" of necessity have a degree of uncertainty attached to them and claims that "the bible says I am saved" depend wholly on personal application of general statements made in holy scripture but the personal application is as uncertain as any other interpretation offered by an individual about the application of general statements in holy scripture. Thus a person who says "I am saved, I am a Christian" can fall away from the faith that they professed at the time of making the claim. I personally know several people who were absolutely certain of their calling and election twenty and more years ago and who are now committed atheists, one individual was a Pentecostal gentleman who wanted to be a pastor, another was a Calvinist bible teacher, a third was also a Calvinist who played music in services, yet another was a man who preached regularly in a Pentecostal meeting. All of these men (and in some cases their spouses) confessed salvation based on the certainty of God's promises and now all of them deny God altogether. So from a human perspective these went from 'salvation' to 'apostasy'.

Your understanding of salvation isn't in view in the OP. So your posts are irrelevant.

If you were incapable of framing the topic so that it asked specifically what you wanted then the fault is in your original post and not in the replies you've received.

You asked "saved from what?" the answer is "saved from a human perspective" since that is the only perspective that human beings have.

If you intended to ask something else then you ought to state clearly what that something else is.

The original post says

Let's agree that Open Theism is false and that God is truly omniscient, even knowing all future events.

With that established, some folks think that truly saved believers can lose/forfeit their salvation. So my question is this: what exactly are they saved from? I cannot be hell, since that's where they will end up if they stay unrepentant. So if they are saved, from what are they saved?

I've answered its question.