Universal Atonement

[Hammster]

Just what I wanted to say. I mean if all our sins are forgiven, that would basically mean I could stop repenting and spending time not trying to sin because well they are forgiven anyways.

So are you saying that your sins are not all forgiven?


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[psalms 91]

What is being said is that our sins are forgiven if we come to Christ and if we confess and repent. Sin that is presumptive or not under the blood is not forgiven. If we didnt have to repent or accept Christ then we would be able to sin away and have no consequence and that is not the gospel of Jesus Christ nor ws it ever that.

 

[Hammster]

So did Christ atone for those sins not confesses?


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[GuusVA]

What is being said is that our sins are forgiven if we come to Christ and if we confess and repent. Sin that is presumptive or not under the blood is not forgiven. If we didnt have to repent or accept Christ then we would be able to sin away and have no consequence and that is not the gospel of Jesus Christ nor ws it ever that.

Well I think this is the response I would give Hammster,
I'm not going to try and convince you to see what I see. Because the way you see and interpret faith is your way. Though, I did try and explain my pov to you. Imho you can't be forgiven your sins if you don't accept Christ as your savior. Then everything I do with my life would be useless. I mean I'm a part time missionary and I must say that if what you see say would be true, which in my op isn't, all I do 20-25 hours a week is useless.

 

[GuusVA]

Also in Luke 13:3 the bible writes, "I tell you, No: but, except you repent, you shall all likewise perish." So he tells us that we are all sinners and that not one will be punished more then another? SO basically this verse would have no use if universal atonement would be true..

Why would paul write about the punishement (death) of sins in Romans 6?
Why would God call out so often to us to repent and then he will be faithful and forgive us?

I'm saying he died for all the people who accept him as a savior, all their sins.

And for those who did not have the change to get to know God, they will be judged to their moral standards. I forgot where that was written but it is written somewhere in the bible.

 

[Hammster]

Well I think this is the response I would give Hammster,
I'm not going to try and convince you to see what I see. Because the way you see and interpret faith is your way. Though, I did try and explain my pov to you. Imho you can't be forgiven your sins if you don't accept Christ as your savior. Then everything I do with my life would be useless. I mean I'm a part time missionary and I must say that if what you see say would be true, which in my op isn't, all I do 20-25 hours a week is useless.

Why would you say that?

What I'm saying is that Christ's death actually accomplished something. Real sins were paid for. Real sins that were worthy of sending someone to hell. In other words, God's wrath was satisfied (1 John 2:2). This in no way means we don't have to believe. Our justification comes by faith. But we are able to be justified because of Christ's finished work on the cross. Nothing in what I've said gives any indication that we should not live godly lives, or that we should not be mortifying sin. My question is, if Christ actually paid the penalty for every sin, what are people in hell being punished for? And if Christ didn't pay the penalty for every sin, what was accomplished on the cross?


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[Hammster]

Also in Luke 13:3 the bible writes, "I tell you, No: but, except you repent, you shall all likewise perish." So he tells us that we are all sinners and that not one will be punished more then another? SO basically this verse would have no use if universal atonement would be true..

Why would paul write about the punishement (death) of sins in Romans 6?
Why would God call out so often to us to repent and then he will be faithful and forgive us?

I'm saying he died for all the people who accept him as a savior, all their sins.

And for those who did not have the change to get to know God, they will be judged to their moral standards. I forgot where that was written but it is written somewhere in the bible.

Then you believe in limited Atonement.


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[Lamb]

Wouldn't rejection of forgiveness be a sin?


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NAB Matthew 12:31 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.

It's not that God hasn't first forgiven the sin, but that the person rejects and cuts himself off from the benefits of the cross.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I am sorry but you can find the Lord and ask forgiveness only if you have whole hearted faith. You do not have to believe that Jesus Christ rose from death in a literal sense. His spirit could have rose to come back to the Lord from which it came. You definitely don't have to idolize a crucifix. No ones sins are paid for without true faith including Christians.

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[Hammster]

I am sorry but you can find the Lord and ask forgiveness only if you have whole hearted faith. You do not have to believe that Jesus Christ rose from death in a literal sense. His spirit could have rose to come back to the Lord from which it came. You definitely don't have to idolize a crucifix. No ones sins are paid for without true faith including Christians.

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I have no idea what this has to do with the topic.


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[popsthebuilder]

I believe it pertains to the topic exactly Sir.

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[Hammster]

I believe it pertains to the topic exactly Sir.

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I'm sure you do. But I have no idea what it has to do with this topic.


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[popsthebuilder]

He speaks of universal atonement. He also mentions atonement through salvation through Jesus' self sacrifice. I to mention both if this topics. How does it not relate?

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[Hammster]

He speaks of universal atonement. He also mentions atonement through salvation through Jesus' self sacrifice. I to mention both if this topics. How does it not relate?

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I have no idea what your point is. This post makes no sense. Sorry.


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[popsthebuilder]

Way to play dumb buddy is that how you respond to everyone interested in Christianity. Good work.

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[MarkFL]

Way to play dumb buddy is that how you respond to everyone interested in Christianity. Good work.

He isn't playing dumb...he is asking for clarification. I also had trouble understanding what it is you are saying. If you could restate your point with more clarity perhaps he can then respond.

 

[popsthebuilder]

My most sincere apologies. What I am trying to ask is how can we not be saved by faith regardless if we put emphasis on the crucifixion of Jesus Christ or not? All old beliefs are the same at there core. We know that the text were handled by man. We know that man is inherently evil. So it is safe to say that man may have manipulated some if the contents of the holy books. Can we not unify on the similarities as opposed to bickering over the differences?

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[Hammster]

My most sincere apologies. What I am trying to ask is how can we not be saved by faith regardless if we put emphasis on the crucifixion of Jesus Christ or not? All old beliefs are the same at there core. We know that the text were handled by man. We know that man is inherently evil. So it is safe to say that man may have manipulated some if the contents of the holy books. Can we not unify on the similarities as opposed to bickering over the differences?

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Okay. But this has nothing to do with the topic of the atonement and whether it's universal or particular.


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[popsthebuilder]

Okay. If you say so. I do not wish to play word games. I am here to find truth. Would you please answer my question that in my personal opinion is very much related to the subject of universal atonement through the acceptance of Jesus Christ as my personal lord and savior.

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[Hammster]

Okay. If you say so. I do not wish to play word games. I am here to find truth. Would you please answer my question that in my personal opinion is very much related to the subject of universal atonement through the acceptance of Jesus Christ as my personal lord and savior.

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You've not made any statement that links what you have said to the atonement. Can you do that so I know where you are coming from?


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