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Josiah

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I cannot find this "Narrow Justification" in the Bible...
i cannot find it in the first one and a half millennia of Christian history...
You have not established it as a relevant Christian concept...

The Bible only speaks of Justification...
It NEVER speaks of NARROW Justification...

I am sorry if you were misled as a child by your Catholic teachers...
Getting over childhood mistreatment in Love is a good thing...

Arsenios

Can you find Jesus proclaimed as THE (one and only, all-sufficient) SAVIOR (not just a helper, not just an offerer, not just a door opener, not just an enabler)?

Can you find the Holy Spirit as the Lord and GIVER of Life (not self as the seeker and stealer of life, self as the life giver, self as the lord of life)?

If so, then your constant, perpetual debate, ridicule, rejection of the Protestant position is beyond all reason and comprehension.



.
 

Arsenios

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No idea why the virgin's birth is here in a salvation thread since her role was done and past and she's dead now.

Are Moses and Elijah dead now?

Do you call the Virgin Mary Blessed now?

Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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Can you find Jesus proclaimed as THE (one and only, all-sufficient) SAVIOR (not just a helper, not just an offerer, not just a door opener, not just an enabler)?

Can you find the Holy Spirit as the Lord and GIVER of Life (not self as the seeker and stealer of life, self as the life giver, self as the lord of life)?

If so, then your constant, perpetual debate, ridicule, rejection of the Protestant position is beyond all reason and comprehension.

Where is NARROW justification referred to in the Bible?

Christ does say that love for Him means obedience to His Commandments...

Are you arguing that this obedience is Christ obeying Himself??

Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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...revelation...

I already know you talk with God...

I simply hoped this revelation might be from the Bible...

So from this, it would seem that...
you have accused me on another thread...
of doing what you yourself are doing...

Here are your very own words,
and I think you have given great advice
Which you might want to consider taking:

Menno said:
Arsenios, you are no prophet,
nor are you receiving a new message from God.
If you imagine you are receiving such things,
you are following the path of Muhammad,
Joseph Smith and myriads of other cult leaders
who have no connection to Jesus.

Be very careful where you tread.
God has given us scripture
and it is profitable
for everything we need.

fwiw,
I too give my own advice freely all the time,
Because I am never using it either...


Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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Can you find Jesus proclaimed as THE (one and only, all-sufficient) SAVIOR (not just a helper, not just an offerer, not just a door opener, not just an enabler)?

I can find Jesus giving Commandments unto Salvation...

Do you think His Commandments are unobeyable by us not yet saved men???

Or do you think He ONLY gives His Commandments to the already saved?

I mean, WHO is He Commanding?

The ALREADY Saved?

Or...

The NOT-YET-Saved?

And where in Scripture is your answer?


Arsenios

"I came not to call the Righteous,
but Sinners to Repentance..."

Christ's Own Words...
 
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MennoSota

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Apparently the emoji's I used did not convey the oozing sarcasm I was writing to you and MC. This emoji means I am being sarcastic.
I already know you talk with God...

I simply hoped this revelation might be from the Bible...

So from this, it would seem that...
you have accused me on another thread...
of doing what you yourself are doing...

Here are your very own words,
and I think you have given great advice
Which you might want to consider taking:



fwiw,
I too give my own advice freely all the time,
Because I am never using it either...


Arsenios
 

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Apparently the emoji's I used did not convey the oozing sarcasm I was writing to you and MC. This emoji means I am being sarcastic.

I did in fact miss the import of the emoi...

Are you denying you talk with God?

Are you denying that God has told you (when) we are wrong?

Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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I did in fact miss the import of the emoi...

Are you denying you talk with God?

Are you denying that God has told you (when) we are wrong?

Arsenios
I don't deny what God says in the Bible. I do not deny praying to God.
What God doesn't do is...verbally or intuitively talk back. It wouldn't really be faith if there was new revelation now would it.
 

MoreCoffee

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Apparently the emoji's I used did not convey the oozing sarcasm I was writing to you and MC. This emoji means I am being sarcastic.

God bless you, MennoSota.
 

Josiah

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Josiah said:


Can you find Jesus proclaimed as THE (one and only, all-sufficient) SAVIOR (not just a helper, not just an offerer, not just a door opener, not just an enabler)?

Can you find the Holy Spirit as the Lord and GIVER of Life (not self as the seeker and stealer of life, self as the life giver, self as the lord of life)?

If so, then your constant, perpetual debate, ridicule, rejection of the Protestant position is beyond all reason and comprehension.


Christ does say that love for Him means obedience to His Commandments...

Are you arguing that this obedience is Christ obeying Himself??

Arsenios


I guess your position is that you can't find these in the Bible, in your church or in your heart.


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Arsenios

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I guess your position is that you can't find these in the Bible, in your church or in your heart.

A heartless guess, my brother...

Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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Apparently the emoji's I used did not convey the oozing sarcasm I was writing to you and MC. This emoji means I am being sarcastic.

I will leave you with your oozing sarchasm...

I was sincere...

Do you deny that God tells you we are wrong?

Arsenios
 

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I will leave you with your oozing sarchasm...

I was sincere...

Do you deny that God tells you we are wrong?

Arsenios
God gives all we need in scriptures. We are convicted by the Spirit as it relates to scripture. Other convictions are likely from hell if they are not connected to God's word.
 

Arsenios

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God gives all we need in scriptures. We are convicted by the Spirit as it relates to scripture. Other convictions are likely from hell if they are not connected to God's word.

Do you deny that God tells you we are wrong?

See how I rely on your integrity with God?

Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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Do you deny that God tells you we are wrong?

Arsenios
I don't understand your question. God tells humans we are sinners in his word. That means we are often wrong. When I read God's word, I see where I am wrong.
 

Josiah

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A heartless guess, my brother...

Arsenios

So, I'll ask it again.... you claim that "narrow justification" (the coming to have faith - spiritual life - the Holy Spirit - a changed relationship with God) is something you can't find in the Bible or your denomination or your heart. So, let me ask again, Can you find Jesus proclaimed as THE (one and only, all-sufficient) SAVIOR (not just a helper, not just an offerer, not just a door opener, not just an enabler)? Can you find the Holy Spirit as the Lord and GIVER of Life (not self as the seeker and stealer of life, self as the life giver, self as the lord of life)? IF so, then you can find what in theology is called "narrow justification" and if you affirm such, then you affirm the Protestant position that you constantly debate, reject and repudiate.




.
 

Arsenios

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You claim that "narrow justification" (the coming to have faith - spiritual life - the Holy Spirit - a changed relationship with God) is something you can't find in the Bible or your denomination or your heart.

Oh we all find the subject of "coming to have faith" in the Bible...
We also find the subject of Spiritual Life in the Bible...
We also find the subject of the Holy Spirit in the Bible...
We also find the subject of a changed relationship with God in the Bible...

All these topics we find in the Bible...
And we know them in our heart...
And we are not a denomination like you...

But what I do NOT find anywhere is this artificial concept you have invented called "Narrow Justification"...
I find Justification, but never this "Narrow" Justification you imagine exists somewhere in the Bible...

I suppose I could invent some terms too...
Let's call it, say: Teen Age Justification, and then Early Believers' Justification, and then perhaps, Expansive Justification, and even for good measure, we could add Generic Justification... And I could name some Biblical features that might accrue to each of these terms... And I could assign varying degrees of Salvation to each according to some perceived standard... And build an edifice of thought and defend it against all comers...

But the Bible does not talk about "Narrow Justification" -
Only YOU do,
And your words ring false,
Because they insist that there is nothing we need to DO
To be Justified by God
AFTER we are Called by God,
Yet before we are Glorified by God
In the Kingdom of Heaven in this life...

Do-Nothing Justification is false and is no more than Easy Believerism and cheap grace...

And you insist that there is no virtue that has anything to do with Justification...

And this means that God justifies predators and their victims equally...

And I find none of this in the Bible...

Arsenios
 
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