Chosen by God.

[MoreCoffee]

Predestination is a word for a concept - or maybe a set of concepts - about being chosen by God for some purpose or purposes. Most of the time people us the word to discuss being chosen by God for eternal life by the saving work of Jesus Christ the Lord. The discussions about predestination are mostly about when it happens and why it happens and what part, if any, human beings play in it. It is a complicated matter because the way people discuss it gets very complicated. In itself predestination is not a complicated concept. It amounts to God choosing people to be in Christ.

By his own choice the Father made us his children
by the message of the truth,
so that we should be a sort of first-fruits
of all that he created.​

 

[TurtleHare]

I never saw a problem in acknowledging that God is the chooser of those to be in Christ since he tells us he chooses us and we didn't choose him. Left to our own devices we wouldn't choose him because we would look to ourselves always.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I never saw a problem in acknowledging that God is the chooser of those to be in Christ since he tells us he chooses us and we didn't choose him. Left to our own devices we wouldn't choose him because we would look to ourselves always.

But isn't God's choice mediated by a process, a set of means, rather than by an unmediated act that just suddenly lands a chap in the state of "being saved"?

The passage I quoted in the first post says … by the message of the truth,
so that we should be a sort of first-fruits
of all that he created.

 

[Albion]

But isn't God's choice mediated by a process, a set of means, rather than by an unmediated act that just suddenly lands a chap in the state of "being saved"?

The passage I quoted in the first post says … by the message of the truth,
so that we should be a sort of first-fruits
of all that he created.

If you are asking why God chooses those whom he does choose, I should think that the answer is obvious. We are not given to knowing everything about God; his choices are not our business; and we are not able to pick his Elect out from the rest of humanity anyway.

This is simply an aspect of his workings, not much different from dozens of other matters that we believe because His word has revealed the reality of those matters to us, even though we do not understand everything about them.

 

[Josiah]

I never saw a problem in acknowledging that God is the chooser of those to be in Christ since he tells us he chooses us and we didn't choose him. Left to our own devices we wouldn't choose him because we would look to ourselves always.

Yup.


The very biblical teaching of Election is pure Gospel, always taught to comfort and assure believers. It simply notes that God's favor and grace toward us is PURELY a matter of HIS heart and actually predates our birth (and therefore our works, merits - and lack thereof). My mother had a LOT of problems with her 4 pregancies - including one child still born - and that included me. Yet my parents STRESSED to me how much they loved me even in the womb.... all the loving things they did for me even before I was born.... how they named me and prayed for me even before I was born. It was GOSPEL. And it did comfort and assure me. I know that even when I was bad, I was loved and deep in the heart of my parents. THAT is the point of the biblical teaching of Election. And yes, it obviously flows from the central point of Christianity that we don't save self, we don't give self life (physical or spiritual) - these are GIFTS entirely from outside self, free gifts. Understanding Election mandates believing that Jesus is the Savior, not self.


The "problem" comes when people ignore Scripture and substitute the pagan Greek concept of Fate,,,,, and when they twist this inside out and use it as LAW - to terrorize and cause insecurity and fear and to teach God as some hateful, capricious, monster. Election is GOSPEL and one must understand and affirm Gospel to embrace it rather than replacing it with some pagan philosophical absurdity.

If you are asking why God chooses those whom he does choose, I should think that the answer is obvious. We are not given to knowing everything about God; his choices are not our business; and we are not able to pick his Elect out from the rest of humanity anyway. This is simply an aspect of his workings, not much different from dozens of other matters that we believe because His word has revealed the reality of those matters to us, even though we do not understand everything about them.

Exactly.




- Josiah




.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If you are asking why God chooses those whom he does choose

No, that is not what I asked. I did not ask why? I asked by what means? and the passage quoted in post #1 points to the message of the truth as the means by which the choosing of God is accomplished.

By his own choice the Father made us his children
by the message of the truth,
so that we should be a sort of first-fruits
of all that he created. (James 1:18)​

, I should think that the answer is obvious. We are not given to knowing everything about God; his choices are not our business; and we are not able to pick his Elect out from the rest of humanity anyway.

This is simply an aspect of his workings, not much different from dozens of other matters that we believe because His word has revealed the reality of those matters to us, even though we do not understand everything about them.