discipleship

[NewCreation435]

I started going to a men's group last Wednesday night. We are studying this material that starting talking about the building blocks of discipleship. In it, the material mentions that the group members are holding each other accountable to have a quiet time regularly. I learned fairly early on in my christian walk about quiet times and having a time with the Lord daily, but I wonder about why the church doesn't have a more structured way of discipling people and holding people accountable.
As far as I can tell in church history it hasn't always been that way. There use to be classes you had to attend before becoming a church member.

 

[Lamb]

What sorts of things do they do to hold others accountable?

 

[Josiah]

I started going to a men's group last Wednesday night. We are studying this material that starting talking about the building blocks of discipleship. In it, the material mentions that the group members are holding each other accountable to have a quiet time regularly. I learned fairly early on in my christian walk about quiet times and having a time with the Lord daily, but I wonder about why the church doesn't have a more structured way of discipling people and holding people accountable.

Well.... I like to think of this as supporting each other, but I see your point

There use to be classes you had to attend before becoming a church member.

Lutherans usually have a 2-3 year process toward Confirmation, usually this is done around the Middle School years but sometimes in high school. I missed this, not being raised Lutheran. Lutherans have classes for adults, what Catholics call RCIA (um.... I can't seem to recall what that stands for). It typically lasts about 12 weeks or so, nearly always taught by the pastor. These are very doctrine oriented and from what I've witnessed, SORELY lacking in teaching discipleship. But I DO give points for Lutherans still having classes.... and still having beliefs that are clear, stated and held to. My brother's church (which shall go unnamed - you've probably heard of it) is HUGE but it has no meaningful statement of beliefs and no classes in doctrine or beliefs, and no membership classes simply because they have no formal membership (anyone who attends twice is automatically a member - if they register). I think much of modern Christianity is infected with relativism to such an extent that beliefs just don't matter ("what is truth?"). I'll give the Catholic Church some points too for First Communion, Confirmation and RCIA classes which they mostly do well (although lay laid).



Thank you.


- Josiah

 

[pinacled]

“Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me.
Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward,
and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward.
And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.”

 

[NewCreation435]

What sorts of things do they do to hold others accountable?

We are all working through three booklets together. We signed a commitment at the first week. So, others have the right to ask us if we are working in our books, having our quiet times and if we stop showing up to the group they have a right to say something to us.

 

[NewCreation435]

Well.... I like to think of this as supporting each other, but I see your point






Lutherans usually have a 2-3 year process toward Confirmation, usually this is done around the Middle School years but sometimes in high school. I missed this, not being raised Lutheran. Lutherans have classes for adults, what Catholics call RCIA (um.... I can't seem to recall what that stands for). It typically lasts about 12 weeks or so, nearly always taught by the pastor. These are very doctrine oriented and from what I've witnessed, SORELY lacking in teaching discipleship. But I DO give points for Lutherans still having classes.... and still having beliefs that are clear, stated and held to. My brother's church (which shall go unnamed - you've probably heard of it) is HUGE but it has no meaningful statement of beliefs and no classes in doctrine or beliefs, and no membership classes simply because they have no formal membership (anyone who attends twice is automatically a member - if they register). I think much of modern Christianity is infected with relativism to such an extent that beliefs just don't matter ("what is truth?"). I'll give the Catholic Church some points too for First Communion, Confirmation and RCIA classes which they mostly do well (although lay laid).



Thank you.


- Josiah

When I was a kid I was in the Methodist church and we had a confirmation class in the 3rd grade. I can't remember how many weeks it went. I did it because everyone else was doing it and don't actually remember much about it. The pastor did have to ask me my name before he baptized me after the confirmation class though, so he wasn't involved at all.

 

[Lamb]

Discipleship can be described as “‘Martha, Martha,’ the Lord answered, ‘you are worried and upset about many things, but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.”

 

[Arsenios]

I wonder about why the church doesn't have a more structured way of discipling people and holding people accountable.

We do

It begins with prayer and fasting in obedience to Christ in His Holy Body, the Church...

It begins with repentance from sin...

It begins with confession of sins on a regular basis...

And the repentance from confessed sins...

As far as I can tell in church history it hasn't always been that way.

It sure didn't... Christ said to His Apostles:

Go...
Disciple all the peoples...
Teaching them all that I have commanded you to be carefully/exactly observing...
Baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and...

And that is what the Apostolic Churches have been doing ever since...

The problem western churches have is what you are up against, eg not knowing... And then having to INFER what discipling means... And beginning, in your case, with accountability, which tells me that your group has hidden sins that you are finding cannot be overcome without, hopefully, establishing some kind of accountability to your Wednesday Night Group in some way...

May God bless your efforts...

Discipling is a huge topic...

"Counting the cost" of discipleship is a big deal in it...

Arsenios

 

[TangledWeb]

The first disciples were students of their Rabbi and so we are too students of Jesus making true discipleship learning what Jesus would like us to learn about the 2 greatest commandments which is to love the Lord our God and our neighbors.

 

[NewCreation435]

We do

It begins with prayer and fasting in obedience to Christ in His Holy Body, the Church...

It begins with repentance from sin...

It begins with confession of sins on a regular basis...

And the repentance from confessed sins...



It sure didn't... Christ said to His Apostles:

Go...
Disciple all the peoples...
Teaching them all that I have commanded you to be carefully/exactly observing...
Baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and...

And that is what the Apostolic Churches have been doing ever since...

The problem western churches have is what you are up against, eg not knowing... And then having to INFER what discipling means... And beginning, in your case, with accountability, which tells me that your group has hidden sins that you are finding cannot be overcome without, hopefully, establishing some kind of accountability to your Wednesday Night Group in some way...

May God bless your efforts...

Discipling is a huge topic...

"Counting the cost" of discipleship is a big deal in it...

Arsenios

the disciplines that you mentioned such as repentance and prayer are all individual disciplines to be sure, but that is not what I was talking about.
I am talking about one member who is older and more mature mentoring and disciplining a younger member or new believer. A program in the church where older members can share their wisdom and fellowship with younger ones and help them along the way. And we all need accountability.

 

[TurtleHare]

the disciplines that you mentioned such as repentance and prayer are all individual disciplines to be sure, but that is not what I was talking about.
I am talking about one member who is older and more mature mentoring and disciplining a younger member or new believer. A program in the church where older members can share their wisdom and fellowship with younger ones and help them along the way. And we all need accountability.

Kinda sounds more like a mentorship program than what other denoms think of when hearing discipleship. Not a bad thing in particular to be a mentor and guide someone younger and give encouragement but you gotta remember we're all sinners, even the older ones. The older ones have more time to perfect their sinful ways.

 

[pinacled]

Kinda sounds more like a mentorship program than what other denoms think of when hearing discipleship. Not a bad thing in particular to be a mentor and guide someone younger and give encouragement but you gotta remember we're all sinners, even the older ones. The older ones have more time to perfect their sinful ways.

theocracy is a close enough description

 

[Arsenios]

the disciplines that you mentioned such as repentance and prayer are all individual disciplines to be sure, but that is not what I was talking about.

For us, they are accountable matters, especially fasting and confession... If one has not had a recent confession one does not receive Holy Communion, nor if one has not kept the prescribed fasting schedule, nor if one has not prepared for Communion with the precsribed prayers... For us, and especially for me who was unchurched, the praxis of the Ancient Faith is intrusive and meddlesome... Confession with the Priest pivots to counselling for the sins confessed, and for deciding strategies for overcoming them... So that the whole of it is the putting on of a whole nother way of life that is very foreign to the "normal" secularity of worldly conduct... Evening and morning prayers, if not attended, need to be confessed... You remember Paul writing that we should obey those that "have the rule" over us, that we not grieve them, as they must give account for our souls... And Revelation reporting from Christ Himself that those overcoming will be made pillars of the Church, the Body of Christ, into which we are Baptized...

I am talking about one member who is older and more mature mentoring and disciplining a younger member or new believer. A program in the church where older members can share their wisdom and fellowship with younger ones and help them along the way. And we all need accountability.

Having the older members sharing their wisdom with the younger members is a good thing...

God-speed in your efforts...

Arsenios

 

[NewCreation435]

For us, they are accountable matters, especially fasting and confession... If one has not had a recent confession one does not receive Holy Communion, nor if one has not kept the prescribed fasting schedule, nor if one has not prepared for Communion with the precsribed prayers... For us, and especially for me who was unchurched, the praxis of the Ancient Faith is intrusive and meddlesome... Confession with the Priest pivots to counselling for the sins confessed, and for deciding strategies for overcoming them... So that the whole of it is the putting on of a whole nother way of life that is very foreign to the "normal" secularity of worldly conduct... Evening and morning prayers, if not attended, need to be confessed... You remember Paul writing that we should obey those that "have the rule" over us, that we not grieve them, as they must give account for our souls... And Revelation reporting from Christ Himself that those overcoming will be made pillars of the Church, the Body of Christ, into which we are Baptized...



Having the older members sharing their wisdom with the younger members is a good thing...

God-speed in your efforts...

Arsenios

so you have a prescribed number of times or days that you are to fast and have communion? How often do they consider you should fast? I am wondering if you have a health problems such as my having diabetes do they take that into account when considering how much you fast? Since I am on insulin it would not do for me to fast completely or my blood sugar would drop too low

 

[Lamb]

theocracy is a close enough description

Theocracy deals with government. The OP doesn't mention government. I think he is stressing the important fact that we are to love our neighbors and in doing so we help them in their lives.

 

[NewCreation435]

Kinda sounds more like a mentorship program than what other denoms think of when hearing discipleship. Not a bad thing in particular to be a mentor and guide someone younger and give encouragement but you gotta remember we're all sinners, even the older ones. The older ones have more time to perfect their sinful ways.

I have met people sometimes, particularly when I was going to the seeker senstive church I attended for a while, with no church background. They didn't know what a quiet time was, how or what to read in the Bible, how to pray or have any doctrinal foundation. So, they were easy prey for falsehood. It would have been nice if there was a more systemic way of helping those young believers along to learn some basic by those who had been believers for a while.
I know there are Sunday School classes have grown up in them, but many people won't go to a class like that and need more one to one attention with their questions.

 

[JSales]

I wasn't aware quiet time was a necessity in a Christian's life in order to remain a Christian

 

[psalms 91]

Not necessarily but how do you expect to hear from God if you dont have quiet time? That is just one aspect as prayer and study and living an example that shows Christ and letting Him lead you into deeper and deeper places.

 

[NewCreation435]

I wasn't aware quiet time was a necessity in a Christian's life in order to remain a Christian

If you love someone you want to spend time with them. We are told to love God. How do you get to know someone without spending time with them?