What is NOT (and never has been) in Dispute, NOT and NEVER HAS BEEN disagreed with: The Christian Response, OUR works…
[Please don't dodge the issue by changing to a subject we agree upon]
The "debate," the issue of the Reformation, the issue that so divides Western Christianity is not now and never has been what is true for Christians, for those justified (narrow), for those with the divine gift of life, faith and Holy Spirit (an issue theologically called "Sanctification" narrow). Everyone has always agreed that once justified, once given those Gifts, MANY truths come into play - including a life of humility, a life of repentance, a life of loving, a life of morality, a life of good works toward our neighbor, etc., etc, etc., etc. and that indeed the Holy Spirit we now HAVE directs and empower such (so that the CHRISTIAN response is synergistic and progressive) and indeed God rewards CHRISTIANS for this and indeed the lack of such may suggests the lack of justification or eventually may result in our wrecking our faith and thus terminating this gift of justification. No disagreement there, as the Catholic Church itself has so powerfully stressed for over 500 years. That's not the debate. The debate is about the application of the "FREE GIFT" of God - of life/faith/Holy Spirit/Justification (narrow). The RCC called the Lutheran/Protestant view in the post above "heresy" - SO horrible it split Western Christianity over it.
On the one hand, Justification (narrow) is not the result of OUR works but rather JESUS’ works. He is the Savior; we are not. Because JESUS is the Savior, it is His works that bring about our salvation – not ours (or else, we’d be the Savior!). On the other hand, Scripture is clear that faith is never alone (James 2:17, Galatians 5:25, John 13:34, Philippians 2:13, Philippians 3:12-14). OUR works do not save us, but they result from our being saved – they are the result of our justification and not the cause of it. We love not so that God will love us, rather we love because God first loved us (Galatians 5:25, John 13:34, Hebrews 11:6). OUR works are not the cause of salvation but the result of salvation, and as such, are to accompany our lives as Christians. CHRISTIANS are called to great things! To absolute divine holiness... to love even as Christ first loved us... to service/ministry.... and much, much more! These are not optional! But these are what the justified are called to do, not what makes one the justified. The unregenerate are dead and can't do anything spiritual (cuz they are dead), but once GIVEN life ("I have come that they may have life....") then (and only then) can they begin to live and grow and mature. It's not the growing that makes one alive, but being alive means we can grow.
Apart from Christ, we are "DEAD in our trespasses and sins." Life is not something the dead give to self, life is the GIFT of God given to the dead so that they have life. Yes, Justification (God's works for us) and Sanctification (our works for God) are inseparable, but association does not even imply causation. Yes, generally speaking, the living breathe but it is not breathing that causes one to be conceived and have life - it's having been given life that causes one to breathe.
Messing this up undermines everything When Jesus is no longer the Savior, we’ve stepped outside of Christianity. When we are made our own Savior (in whole or in part), the result is not only a conflict with Scripture and the central affirmation of Christianity, but it results in one of two things: A “terror of the conscience” (as we realize we’re not the “savior” of self we need to be) or we become little self-righteous, condemning souls (because we think we are what we need to be). It results in the beauty and comfort of the Gospel being lost and our relationship to God undermined. In some circles, OUR works are added to the requirements of John 3:16 so that it reads, “For God so loved the world so that those who do “X, Y and Z” will not perish but be given what their works deserve, everlasting life.” The key factor then is not Christ but our performance of “X, Y and Z” – not His work but our work, WE become the Savior, not Christ. And we must worry if we’ve done “X, Y and Z” well enough (remember His call to perfection?), if we’ve done enough, if we’ve done well enough, if we’ve been sufficient. IF we answer “NO” the result is a “terror of the conscience” so that we never know if we are forgiven or saved or heaven-bound or not. IF we answer “YES” the result is often a prideful, self-righteous, condemning modern-day Pharisee. We must not mix our works with Christ’s works, the cause of salvation with the fruit of salvation. The result is the “peace that passes all understanding” and love that isn’t selfish and self-serving but truly of God.
Jesus is the Savior! We are saved by His grace and mercy, by His life and death and resurrection! Our faith, our rest, our certainty are in Christ! Our peace, our confidence, our certainty are in Christ! So Lutherans (and most Protestants) proclaim. It resulted in the third largest split in Christianity in 1500 years.
MoreCoffee.... see post 213..... pray, please finally tell us all...... WHAT SPECIFICALLY is the horrible, condemnable heresy in post 213? Please don't avoid: The disagreement is NOT in Sanctification (what those WITH the divine gift of life/faith/justification) are to do - that has never been in dispute, so please don't keep trying to change the subject and hijack the thread to a different subject. And please note, your denomination has NEVER said "What Lutherans say is the absolute truth - there's just more that must be said, you know, what Lutherans say so very well and that we agree with them concerning." Nope. We all know that.
MoreCoffee.... Please tell us EXACTLY what IS this horrible, terrible HERESY in post 213?
- Josiah
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